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I love my A-bolt in 300 wsm, but still would like to build another rifle ... for no apparant reason  I want a long range(up to 800yds)tack driving rifle for elk and deer hunting here in Idaho. What action? (I was leaning toward Rem 700) What barrel? Is carbon worth the $$? What stock? I know the caliber I want, but sell me on your choice. | ||
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How about a 338×300 Remington Ultra Mag also known as the 338 Edge. Or as a second choice, a 338 lapua mag. Or 338×378 Wbty All three could be done on a Rem Ultra Mag donor. Or Savage is reportedly bringing out a 338 Lapua. Ray ...look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. | |||
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As far as the barrel goes I don't think you can go wrong with PAC-NOR offering their "Super Match" barrels. Just pick the contour & caliber and have them do all the work. You also can't go wrong with a Remington 700 action. The Weatherby Vanguard which is a push feed Howa action, or CZs if you want controlled round feed are very good choices. Stock choices are to personal for me to have an opinion. Have fun, happy shooting, and I fully understand and support building a rifle "just because". | |||
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If you only have $1500, I don't think you can get there unless you do it yourself and you still may be shy. Butch | |||
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You mention hunting so I'm suggesting 7mm Rem Mag. | |||
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I think you could get there for $1500 but your options are limited. Used Remington 700 BDL in 300 Win Mag $475 True Action $225 Douglass or Shilen Premium $250 Chamber and install $200 Hogue Overmold stock $225 Bed action into stock $ 50 Trigger job $ 50 Total $1475 You could chamber in 338 Ultramag...probably get $100 between a take off stock and take off barrel Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Not sure about the terrain you hunt, but where I hunt elk I would not like to carry such a monster. To get the most out of the suggested cartridges you will require a 26" barrel which is cumbersom, and then to get it light you will need a carbon barrel and then to control recoil a muzzle break which will make your rifle barrel another 1-1.5". I would just try a 338 ultramag or a 340 Weatherby accumark (heavy) and be done with it. 800 yards is a loooooong way. So much can effect the bullet along the flight path (wind). What a chance to hit a animal wrong and wound it. I would look at a good 400 yard gun. EZ | |||
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It is one thing to have a rifle that is capable of it, can you handle it? I have a friend that is a very capable shooter and rifles are his business. Kim has as good as you can build 300Ultra mag with a Swarovski scope and range finder and a solid bench cannot shoot 100% of the hogs that come to the feeder at 800yds. I think you would be a fool to try. Butch | |||
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MRAMSAY 10, I like your idea, but you are not even in the ball park on your price for a custom rifle with the capabilities you are looking for. I would say a minimum of $3,000.00. If you want a guarantee that it will shoot 1/2 MOA or less you would probably have to pay more. Nosler sells rifles for about $3,00.00 and I think they say they shoot 1/2 MOA. Here is a link. http://www.nosler.com/riflehome.htm I would check with some competent gunsmiths and ask what they could do to improve the accuracy of your A-Bolt. You may get a match grade barrel and that would be all you need. I would also buy Timmney's spring kit for your trigger. I did that for my 338 A-Bolt and it made an amazing difference. The kit comes with two springs, a light and medium. It is easy to change the springs and you can set the trigger to almost any setting you want and you can always change it back. | |||
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Do you need to build it, or do you just want to own it. If you don't need to build it, the gun racks are littered with creations almost exactly as you have described at prices that are probably half of what the owner's put into them. | |||
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Or buy a Rem 700 SPS in 7mm or 300 RUM for 650$, put it on a better stock (250 for B&C, 400$ for HS-Precision, 550 for McMillan) glass bed it to new stock, have any gunsmith do a factory trigger job (under 100$) and go hunting! Or get the same rifle in 7mm Rem Mag, have it rechambered for 7mm STW and you'll have 90-95% of the performance with a lot less powder and cheaper components. I know there are lots of 7RM's on the market, but the SPS is the only one I believe, with a proper 26" barrel and long enough box. Semi-custom rifle for under 1500$ You can either reload with extreme anal retentiveness for best groups, or spend what you have left over on having the action trued and bolts lapped. That would still put you under the 1500$ and have a DAMN fine shooter with proper bullet selection that might get you to your goals. If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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IMO if you plan on shooting elk at 800 yds, you'd do A LOT, REPEAT A LOT better to spend your money on range-estimation practice and shooting practice. You can buy mechanical accuracy but it won't do you any good if you, personally, can't shoot up to the rifle. And don't be a Cleopatra (Queen of Denial) and claim that you're already good enough to shoot that well. In the first place only about 1 shooter in 100 or more likely 1000 is actually good enough for that sort of shooting, and in the second place even a shooter of that skill level still wouldn't be good enough unless he was in current practice at those ranges under those conditions. For practice, I find it helpful to use a 12" steel gong placed at unknown ranges out to the maximum practical hitting range for me, which right now is about 500 yds. 12" is about the size of my personal preferred killing zone on a large elk-sized animal (8" for deer), and a fresh coat of paint on the steel provides a good visible record of hits. Of course 500 yds is child's play for a good rifle off the bench but try it sometime without the sandbags, just you and the rifle and the gong all standing on the ground like you'd be doing in the hunting field. Try for a first-shot hit @ 400-500 yds in under 3 seconds. No? How about 5 seconds? How about shooting a group? How about I'd be surprised if many could even hit the gong at all without at least some prior practice? Just a sanity check, regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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jd, well said!... at 4 or 500 yrds, it doesn't take much movent to miss a 12" circle. i'm reasonably good shot off a bench, know the trigger/aiming disciplines fairly well, but at those distances it's still just plain difficult with everythiing in your favor. i certainly know it would be hopeless off hand and in real hunting conditions (a stick, or maybe prone, on uneven ground and maybe out of breath), it won't get much better. | |||
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IMO 800 yards is a loooong assed way to have to walk to track a wounded animal. _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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Personally, I think anyone that tries a shot at a live animal, in excess of 500 yds is a fool. It just ain't ethical. At 800 yds you wouldn't even be able to tell if you hit the animal if it didn't fall down. Jim Kobe 10841 Oxborough Ave So Bloomington MN 55437 952.884.6031 Professional member American Custom Gunmakers Guild | |||
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1. Ya get what ya pay for. 2. All BS aside you'll need big $ if you want to shoot at 700+ yards. 3. See #1 There are two types of people in the world: those that get things done and those who make excuses. There are no others. | |||
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I agree! The internet, being what it is, is chock full of long range hunters claiming to take game out to 1000 yards. But what I've come to learn, based on the folks from these parts who want to take game at ranges between 800 and 1000 yards is that 99.97 percent of these folks don't have a firm grasp on just how far 800 or 1000 yards really is. Lucky for them, the distance from the north edge of my driveway approach to the center of the intersection just north of my place, where the traffic light hangs, is exactly 1000 yards, so when these folks start talking their stuff, I stroll them down the driveway, to the street, and sober them up.  _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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I totally agree it is stupid and unethical to shoot at animals at 800+ yards. I want a rifle CAPABLE of doing this ... I don't plan on shooting that far at all. I was just trying to describe the accuracy that I am looking for. Thanks for all the great ideas guys. So, would you guys just buy someone else's "money pit" from them for a good deal, then change little things? | |||
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Building a rifle capable of busting 8" or better targets out to 1000 yards is pretty simple. I would start from scratch and do a little at a time until the gun you want is finished. I would never recommend buying someone elses project. Have seen way too many that weren't right. _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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A few years back, Magnum Research was selling their Mountain Eagle rifles, which were built on Sako l691 actions. (Butter smooth and sexy) They also had Krieger barrels and pretty nice synthetic stocks (HS prescion?). These were, for all practical purposes, a custom rifle. A great addition to any gun safe. I was strolling through Cabela's this fall and they had a lightly used one, (with a muzzle brake), for around $900.00. I came close to buying it, as you could never even come close to building one for near that price. If I were in your shoes, I would search broker, AArms, local gunshows, and gunshops for one in your favorite cartridge. The way I look at it, you cover all of your bases. You have a world class action, a barrel that has been sold to a countless number of long-range shooters and it's something that you will not find on every corner gunstore's used rack. As a bonus, it comes in under budget and you can still spend 5oo bucks on your wife! Furthermore, you can always sell it and recoup your $$$ when you get sick of it. Heck, you almost got me talked into looking for one in 7mag. ----------------------------------------------------- Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him. Proverbs 26-4 National Rifle Association Life Member | |||
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+1 or, get a 375 rum, have it trued and beddded, and go hunt. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Yeah, there's a reason it's for sale in the first place. All too often that reason is because it didn't deliver or there's some other hidden issue.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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I'll concour with Butch. Its hard to buy or build a fine rifle these days without spending at least that much. Also, while your planning this project, don't forget about good glass. You're not going to hang a $100 scope on a $1500 rifle; be sure to budget for a good scope too. Jason "Chance favors the prepared mind." | |||
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Are you going to be doing the building or have it done by someone else. If you do the work yourself you can do it for alot less. Wby Vanguard $350 Stainless Select Match Shilen $240 Reamer $125 Laminated stock $125 Rifle basix trigger $125 Bedding $25 Scope $Best you can afford If you get a Stainless barrel you don't have to have all the bluing equipment. Just what I did! God Bless, Louis | |||
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Is that new or used? _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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Midway shows 'em at about $260. | |||
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Sheesh...I thought I had a reasonable approach and nobody has even told me how dumb I am Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Westpac, New! I guess you could add shipping to that though. Nomo4me, That is why Midway appreciates your business. God Bless, Louis | |||
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Now... Maybe I just fell off the turnip truck! 800 yards is is pure and simple bullshit for anyone with an atom of sportsmanlike ethic. | |||
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Gee Duane, tell us how you really feel. Jason "Chance favors the prepared mind." | |||
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As I stated earlier, my friend has a $3000 rifle and a $1500-$2000 scope. He has a special bench made that is anchored in concrete. He has shot targets under the feeder and has the rifle deadnuts. He only shoots feral hogs and from that bench he does not hit them all. The ones he hits are not always instant death either. I would say he can shoot a big rifle better than 95% on this forum. Butch | |||
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He never said he was going to SHOOT an elk at 800 yards, try reading the whole paragraph before going off based on the title of the thread. He wants a rifle that is CAPABLE of doing so, big difference. A rifle CAPABLE of cleanly and accurately killing an elk at 800 yards, is going to do it a whole lot better at 400 yards. If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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I build long range rifles. A .338 Edge I built took an Elk (6x6), one shot DRT @ 1330 yards, this fall. He also got a Muley @ 846 yards. I built that rifle for around $2300. Rem 700, Wyatt mag box, H-S Precision stock, Kreiger barrel, Harrell muzzle brake, David Tubb recoil lug and Jewell trigger. Using a Savage action (without the nut), Wyatt mag box, Shilen CM barrel, Rifle basix trigger, Boyd's pillar bedded stock, Harrell muzzle brake and Mag. Phos. and NP3 coating. All for $1400, if you want a repeater. A little less for a single shot......Tom SCI lifer NRA Patron DRSS DSC | |||
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I don't know anything about a 338 Edge but let's optimistically assume it launches a 300 grain Sierra MKHP at 3400 fps, here's what Quickload has to say about the matter: @ 1330 yds the bullet will be cruising along at about 1,500 fps and (if the rifle is sighted in at 600 yds) drop about 1,000 inches below zero. If your rangefinder is off by 10 yds either direction, you'll either shoot 60 inches over the elk (at 1320 yds) or shoot 100 inches under the elk (at 1340 yds). Without regard to shooting skill, that is a mighty fine example of range estimation. ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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 Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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So according to Quickload the holdover would be 1,000 inches, or around 83 feet over the intended impact point? I'll have to try that myself one day. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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And bullet placement! _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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I used a Barrett BMG in .416 to shoot at 600 yards. It was a dream but a bit heavy at 74lbs. The 750 grain bullet was a little over the top, but killed just fine. | |||
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