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I guess I just like to hunt and stalk my game. Also, not Fn lazy either......concrete bench to shoot hogs???? I just gut shoot the bastards, thick as cockroaches on my land. Oh and I do that with my pre war Mod 70 with a $1200 scope....LOL There are two types of people in the world: those that get things done and those who make excuses. There are no others. | |||
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Maybe you need a better scope. Butch | |||
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 _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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ForrestB, I just don't believe the 338 Edge is going to be dropping 1000 inches in that distance. According to my calculations he would be around 142 inches low at 1000yds with a 300 yd zero. You might want to recalculate. Merry Christmas, Louis | |||
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I may get fried for this here, but I've killed two elk over 600 yards, one last year and one this fall, that one was 850 yards away (the first was 601 yards). 300 RUM, single shot Nesika action, 31" barrel shooting the 200gr accubond at 3225fps. I do understand the argument of hunting vs. shooting and am still on the fence on that one as I've also killed 6 other elk at less than 200 yards and prefer the latter over the other if possible. There are places out west you can 'hunt' more effectively if you have a good vantage point of the other hillside, and that's where I killed these last two elk. In a mild wind and known distances these were not difficult shots, and from what I've seen of other hunters, more ethical than much closer shots many take pot shots at. When I'm out there hunting, I am out there for meat primary and trophy a distant second. The last few years on public land in CO the pressure in earlier seasons have moved the elk into inaccesible or just plain nasty areas to hunt and looking into that scrub oak from the other side is about the only way I can figure to drop one of them. Yes, there's a lot of shows dedicated to taking that long shot, and I would be willing to bet the percentage of lost game by those shooters set up for such a shot is far less than the general public experiences from what I've seen. My 601 yard bull dropped in his tracks to a high shoulder shot. My bull this year was hit center lungs and went all of 40 yards before dropping dead. Honestly that one did have me nervous after he ran, but myself and my buddy both saw the hit and he was stone dead within a minute I am sure. After the 1 hour hike to get to where he lay finding him when we got there took no longer than if I had shot him from 50 yards as the blood was good and we had a great view of where he disappeared. I've done it both ways, up close in the timber, and across the drainage to the other side. I do prefer the up close and personal, but in all fairness, my shots at longer range have been closer to the POA due to time taken before the shot and having a dead solid rest (on the ground off a bipod). Oh, and the drop at 850 yards from a 300 yard zero was 11 1/2 minutes, or 93.5 inches at the elevation (8500 ft) and angle I was shooting at. If I was going to build a rifle on a budget, I'd look at a Rem action, have a good gunsmith true it up and install the barrel (add a brake), and find a good HS or McM stock on the used market and bed it yourself. Look around on the web for the proper information and learn to adjust the trigger yourself so you can do so on your other rifles while your at it. $400 for the donor rifle (little more or less if you can sell the old barrel and stock), $300 for the new barrel (roughly with shipping), $200-400 for installation depending on facing the reciever face or truing the threads with a piloted tap, $200-$400 for the stock, another $150 for the muzzle brake and $32 for a pound of devcon. Or just get a Savage and a pre-threaded chambered barrel in the flavor you want and intall it yourself. Shoot straight, shoot often. Matt | |||
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oops, double post | |||
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Thanks again guys. You have been a huge help as usual. | |||
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Matt, If you purchase a $600 non-resident tag like I do you cannot afford not to be able to shoot at least 600 yds. If you practice enough and know your equipment a 600 yd Elk is meat in the freezer. I've seen it plenty of times. My group can shoot as well at 600 yds as most people can at 100 yds. Merry Christmas, Louis | |||
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No doubt about it...you are with a group of supermen!,,,,,Gosh! | |||
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Duane, What is the difference in 800 yd shooting and hunting? You ever tried it? Merry Christmas, Louis | |||
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I'll say one more thing here, and I'll say it very plainly indeed. I flat-out don't believe all these stories about first-shot kills on elk at over 600 yds. I don't think that all of them are lies, just convenient and selective memory loss by folks who want to tell their special stories and be perceived as 'special' people. One question: how many shots did you (the collective 'you', no names here yet) fire at other elk before finally connecting on the one you killed? I ain't talking about the shots fired at the specific elk you finally managed to kill, but rather all the shots you fired before at other elk. You know, the shots you failed to mention firing while you were learning to hit at those longer ranges, in those 'other' instances when you DIDN'T connect properly? If you're such an all-fired good long-range shooter then how come we haven't heard about you winning the Hickory Egg Shoot? Or even competing in any serious long-range competitions? I think we ALL know the answer to THAT one! It's easy to claim things from the safety of one's long-range-&-never-miss keyboard but the competition tells the REAL tale! If you claim it's too far for you to travel to Hickory then hop on up to MT to the Quigley shoot and get educated by some BPCR shooters! Please understand that I'm not saying that you can't kill an elk at 800 yds, of course it's done every season by someone or other. I'm saying that you can't guarantee to even HIT the elk in a killing spot with your first shot, every time, at 800 yds. And if you can't do it every time then you don't need to risk a shot, period. Reality check: would you be prepared to wager say $2000 cash money (or better yet, your rifle!) that you can kill an elk with the first shot at an unknown distance over 600 yds under normal hunting conditions? Pertinent words are cash, kill, first, unknown and normal. Think about it. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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If the animal were to bolt and run, I wonder how many people would actually walk the distance to look for signs of a hit? Of course everyone except FMC will claim to be a humane and ethical hunter, but I wonder what they are really like when no one is watching. _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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I personally wouldn't shoot at anything live at long distance if I didn't know the range. Might as well throw a rock. Merry Christmas, Louis | |||
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The bullet he used was a 300 Gr. Berger VLD hunting. It was around 3400f/s. Swarvoski range finders won't miss by 10 yards. I agree you need perfect conditions and a very good shooter. I personally never saw that gun shoot farther than 725 yds as that is the length of our range. Shooting off a bipod, prone, the gun would consistently shoot 2" groups @ 725 yds. We have a gong at 725 yds that is 12" in dia. Jim was shooting it in a 10-20 mph cross wind to learn wind doping. I ask him if he ever missed the gong and he said "NO". The gun now lives in Idaho so I only get reports. Needless to say he loves the gun.....Tom SCI lifer NRA Patron DRSS DSC | |||
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I'll raise the  on consistant 2" groups at 725yds.Butch | |||
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And I'll salute it.  My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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And I'll 3rd it. | |||
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Tapper, I live in Idaho and if that gun shoots 2" groups at 725 yds I want to buy it. | |||
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My God...get away from the forum for a day and things really get amazing...now 2" groups at 725 yards! Jim Carmichel is one of the best long range shots on the planet...sure wish he's wade into this one! Hunting conditions: When I was much younger with better eyes, I had a 12" gong at 600 yds/...well...we THINK it was 600 yds...we used one of those foot long split image type of rangefinders (1970's) It took me a few rounds to find the gong and get the sight picture. Once I did, I could hit about 3 out of 5...that means I missed 2 out of 5. What elk is gonna stand still while you go through all that BS?..now...extend the range another 125 yards????dream on! | |||
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Dang Dude , Dats perdy dag nab good shootin, can I be your friend?  | |||
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Hmm, the guy had help with those groups  opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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He's never missed a 12" gong at 725 yds, in a 10-20 mph crosswind??? more ----------------------------------------------------- Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him. Proverbs 26-4 National Rifle Association Life Member | |||
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Jeffe- Like your post. I suspect it might have been a one shot group. Maybe a destabilized, tumbling 300 gr. bullet turned completely sideways could leave a 2" long mark out there on a gong. Honestly, though, it IS possible that with a lot of pure luck the rifle may have shot ONE 3-shot group that size at that distance. If you believe in miracles, maybe two such groups in the same year if shot every weekend. And like the time my dad shot a pheasant in the head while it was flying over the moving convertible he was a passenger in, with his .22 rifle, he grinned and said "Get 'em that way every time..." And maybe the shooter at 725 yards did say he does it all the time. But anyone with very much shooting experience, especially competition experience, knows that riflemen and rifles just don't do that well consistently. I know I've been shooting for over 60 years, and in competition of various disciplines for over 20 years, and I've sure as heck never seen a man or a gun capable of doing it consistently. | |||
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2" at 725 works out to 2.75" at 1000. What is the current record at 1000 yards? Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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1.43 inches http://accurateshooter.wordpre...group-at-1000-yards/ So what yo don't believe it...LoL...just because it makes him and the rifle in the top 10 in capabilities in the world... Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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No: got more brains than to try such a stupid shot. Merry Christmas to you! | |||
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Jason, I believe Tom's rifle is north of 40lbs and is a $5000 rifle plus probably $2300 scope. It has a very special rest that allows no vertical or horizontal change in POA when returned to battery. It sure weren't off a bipod and prone. Butch | |||
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Gentlemen as luck would have it I have a target shot at 725 yds. from that gun. I will go to the range and photograph it. I don't expect anyone to believe it with out proof, but this is all I can provide. I saw him do it twice. Conditions were perfect both times. If need be I can get two other people to verify the target, besides the shooter......Tom SCI lifer NRA Patron DRSS DSC | |||
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Yeah...it need be! | |||
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I guess it has gone from consistantly shooting 2" groups to maybe twice. Butch | |||
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Duane, Things have changed alot since the 70's. Get you a Leica 1200 range finder and range the target; then turn your target turret to the distance and hold dead on and shoot. It works pretty darn good. My turret has calibrations in yards to 1000yds. It is on the money in drop for my load and location. And no I don't shoot game at 1000yds and I am not trying to be smart. Still Merry Christmas, Louis | |||
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Tapper, Not being a smart A, but i am very curious. How much does a gun like that cost? Also, what are the specs? | |||
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Westpac, If that is an offer; Sure. As long as I get to use my Leica. Say between 600 and 800yds. I think I can hit an Elk in the vitals. Merry Christmas, Louis | |||
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Yeah but even a 10 mph wind moves a 300 grn 338 bullet 19 inches at 725 yards and a 10 mph ain't much wind Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I must have been sleep typing. If what is an offer? _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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There is a bit more to it than that. Louis, does that Leica, as fine of an instrument as it is, give you the corrections and values for cross and quartering winds? Merry Christmas. _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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And a 10-20 mph crosswind changed to near perfect conditions. ----------------------------------------------------- Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him. Proverbs 26-4 National Rifle Association Life Member | |||
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The internet and (IMO) unethical pitch men at gun/trade shows are creating a group of idiots who think shooting at game at distances over 500 yards out to as much as 1300 yards is hunting. It is not hunting. This past Fall I had two customers come into my shop with RMEF Remington’s in .300 RUM, and Huskamaw scopes who believe they will be able to shoot Elk at 800 yards just because they have this equipment. (One of them did get an Elk, shot at about 40 yards). Now, I've shot 2.5" groups at 500 yards with my SR-25. From a bench, no wind, high-power scope and little adrenalin in my system. I hadn't just run up a steep slope nor walked 5 miles. The longest shot I've taken on a big game animal (Antelope) was 379 yards and had crawled on my hands and knees for 200 yards to get there, and thought real hard about not taking the shot because I like to be a lot closer than that. I took the goat cleanly through the neck, shooting from a sitting position using sticks. I felt I was lucky. If you want a rifle that shoots MOA, that's great; but if you want a rifle so you can snipe at game animals from beyond 500 yards you really should consider taking up 1,000 yard match shooting instead. Just my opinion and I could be wrong. John Farner If you haven't, please join the NRA! | |||
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JD, I'll tell you exactly how many elk I've shot AT in the last two years...TWO. And both were killed by me, one with two shots and this last one with one (total). My buddy also killed a very good mule deer this year at 826yards with two shots. The deer was dead on it's feet with the first round, but he followed up w/ the second and it dropped him. The only elk I've ever shot at that got away was an unfortunate incident with archery, and that was at 15 yards. Problem with many of the nay-sayers is they've never tried shooting at distance with the equipment commonly used. Is it for everyone, hell no, but don't make it sound like I or others traipse around the mountains shooting wildly at long range until I'm LUCKY enough to drop one....it ain't that way my friend. And who the hell ever said anything about shooting past 600yards and not knowing the EXACT yardage??? That would truly be stupid. Ever hear of a rangefinder? Shoot straight, shoot often. Matt | |||
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I assembled that gun for $500, he suppied the parts. I think his total was around $2500. It was a Rem. 700 SS action, Krieger SS Target contour barrel @ 30", H-S Precision stock, Jewell trigger @ 1.5#, I don't remember the brand of muzzle brake as I didn't buy it. While truing the action I took too deep a cut on the lugs which set the bolt about .030 farther back than normal. I discussed it with him and we didn't think it would effect the gun. Had to relieve the action and the stock for the new bolt handle position. I have often wondered if that had anything to do with how well it shoots. Makes no sense. The scope was a Nightforce. Total weight a little more than 16 lbs. I went to the range and the drifts were too high to get in. Hopefully, I can get in today. I need to clarify a couple of points. The groups I am talking about are 3 shot, not 10 as I believe the record is. BIG Difference. When I stated a 2" group I meant something less than 3". I should have said "in the 2's". I personally won't try a game shot at those distances as my old eyes just aren't good enough. I will shoot at P. dogs and baboons, though.....Tom SCI lifer NRA Patron DRSS DSC | |||
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