The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing How would you resolve THIS problem?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Allen, Take the gun out of your safe and GIVE the rifle to your friend of 28 years. Spiritually and psychologically, your conundrum will be solved. Call it a Christmas present. The water between you will be like glass and the air, crystal clear. WAR EAGLE!! | |||
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OldCenterChurch: How is it that you can come along, and with so few words solve the problem? IMHO Well done!  | |||
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Allen: I strongly disagree with those recommending "confront him and get it off your chest". I had a situation where I made a trade with a close friend. My friend took advantage of my trust and boosted his "cost" $500. I was upset and confronted him and we have not talked for months. He was wrong I but quite honestly I could afford the money and should have known better than to make a deal in the first place. I wish I could have one of those magical "do-overs" because I regret putting him in a corner even though he deserved it. The fact you are agonizing over your decision tells me how much you value his friendship. Don't lose it! | |||
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LJS, if your friend would do you for $500, whether you could afford it or not, it sounds like the friendship only ran one way. Friends like that, I can do without. | |||
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That's unfortunate Allen. It seems that either one of two scenarios have occured here, either your friend is unaware of the true nature of the damage done, or he is simply not much of a friend. Sounds like the first case more than likley. Only you can decide how much you value his friendship. I would probably confront him as calmly as possible and let his reaction decide the fate of future relations. | |||
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If this is the case, then I agree with the other assessment of your situation, your were closer to your friend than he was to you. Seems odd that so many of us have had these "polar" friendships. I've been screwed by at least 3 guys in my lifetime over piddly shit, and they all took advantage of my kindness. I don't talk to any of them anymore and I haven't lost any sleep. Yet, I've not been a friend with one individual for 28 years either, outside of my father and brother. The advice that you gave leaves one being dishonest with himself and to ignore his own emotions or suppress them. Forgiveness and Acceptance are 2 totally different things. Don't forget that. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Me too. Life is too short to get "screwed" by "friends" time and time again. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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A long time ago a really good hunter told me his philosophy about lending: "I'll lend you anything I have, except my wife, my guns, or my money". Works for me. NRA Life Endowment Member | |||
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MikeMichalski Better include tools in that list.  Roger Kehr Kehr Engraving Company (360)456-0831 | |||
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Scrollcutter, you forgot cars, tree stands, snow blowers, and concentricity gauges.  Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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I wouldn´t call "friend" anybody who behaves that way - less after 28 years of "friendship" !!! At least he should have told you all the (bad) use he had given to your rifle and he should have had taken better (or at least proper) care ... I would go and tell him just what you posted ... thats´ the only way your friendsdhip could be saved ------------------------------------------  Μολὼν λάβε Duc, sequere, aut de via decede. | |||
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Allen, "No good deed goes unpunished". Apparently after 28 yrs of close friendship you didn't really know your friend as well as you think. I had a dear friend and hunting companion who recently passed away who was a lot like you in that even his frequently used rifles looked like thay just came from the builder. Me, on the other hand, while taking good care of my guns, look at them as tools more so than fine works of art. I knew how he felt about his guns and we hunted together all the time but I wouldn't think of "borrowing" or otherwise shooting his rifles for fear of somehow marking them. It's the way he was and I know he would do for me like you did for your friend, but I would have refused the deal until money was in hand. My dear friend (and cousin) died recently at 56yrs of age out of the clear blue sky. I can only tell you that our life long friendship and outdoor expeiences were far more valuable than all our rifles put together. I might ask how the hell he managed to mark up a perfectly good rile and let the chips fall were they may as far as his reply, then have a drink together and plan our next hunt. | |||
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I'd burn his ass as bad as he burnt your's. Tell him you sold the rifle to someone for what he could have afforded to buy it for. Yep I sold it. decided to take XXXXX for it. Oh? you would have been interested in it for that? Gee so sorry. Better luck next time LOOSER. Now go f@%kyourself. Timan | |||
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Tools of any form hit that list also. Allen, do what your concious dictates. I hope it settles out for you. | |||
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Nope, don't believe that at all. Read too many of the self-aggrandizing, loud-mouth, blow-hard, braggart posts to believe he has had anyone as a friend for 28 years. Perhaps it is a different version of "Friend" than I have. Oh yes, I can see where actually "using" a rifle would create a real problem.  As we have heard for years from the self-aggrandizing, loud-mouth, blow-hard, braggart, there can't be any rust on the Blue Steel, because as he has told us ad nauseum, Blue Steel doesn't rust. Can't be a thing wrong with the Termite Food stock, because we also heard for years from the self-aggrandizing, loud-mouth, blow-hard, braggart, that Termite Food stocks are darn near perfect. (Only recently has the truth sunk in that Synthetic is really the best way to go.) If the rifle actually is Stainless and Synthetic, any blemish can be removed in about 2-5 minutes. Yes indeed, life is rough when there isn't an entire herd of Gunbearers to look after the firearms. Has anyone else noticed there are NO pictures of this horrendous damage created by actually "using" the rifle? Do have the "braggart flick" lording over a dead cow, but noting showing this huge amount of damage.  I'd say that very well describes the same way I think about him.  BUT, I do need to update my thoughts to include a very-stupid, sniveling and whinning, self-aggrandizing, loud-mouth, blow-hard, braggart. For those of you who think the very-stupid, sniveling and whinning, self-aggrandizing, loud-mouth, blow-hard, braggart would "give the rifle" to his old friend you really don't have a clue about how he thinks about other folks. Pitiful!!! | |||
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Beyond your sophomoric descriptions..... I don't remember Allen stating blue steel doesn't rust.
On this issue, I believe Allen has been pretty consistent since joining the forum. He specifically prefers "plastic" stocks for using guns. Your post certainly says more about you than it does about the person you've gone over the top to denigrate. GV | |||
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Isn't that the truth. Chuck | |||
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Leanwolf--The saying actually goes like this: "An oral agreement isn't worth the paper it isn't written on." allen--I don't like giving advice, mostly because it's presumptuous. But since you solicited it , mine would be: Say nothing and take your lumps. File this one under "L" for "lessons learned."Hot Core--You really need to exercise some self-restraint. There is no excuse for a cheap shot post like yours on this thread. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Tell him the truth...that you only took the rifle back because you thought it was in the same conditon as when he took it. I would tell him that as far as I was concerned his use of the rifle "sealed-the-deal" at the agreed upon price and that you were willing to allow him to make regular payments until it was paid off...and I would make sure we both understood what "regular payments" meant. If he is the friend you think he is this should not be a problem for him. DB Bill aka Bill George | |||
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Hey Allen, You've received the full spectrum of advice on this issue, the important question is, how have YOU decided to handle it? Regards, Dan | |||
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I am reminded of a scene from "Out of Africa" where Berkley Cole relates to Karen how much Denys loves his books: "I remember one time Denys made loan of a book to a friend and didn't get it back. Denys was furious. I said, "now Denys, you wouldn't lose a friend for the sake of a silly book, would you?" to which he replied: "NO ... but he has!" | |||
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Sounds like a misunderstanding...did your friend no that he wasn't supposed to shoot the rifle? Are the dings such that he knew they were there...even though it is a custom rifle is a working a working rifle or is it more like art work? How much would it cost for you to have the repaira done and is it worth losing a friend of 28 years over $300 or $400... If he was my close friend of 28 years and the rifle was intended to be hunted with I wouldn't worry about it... Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi?[/] [i] Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Allen, What do you FEEL you should do? DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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The difficulty about a gentlemen’s agreement is that it depends on the continued existence of the gentlemen.  Far better to remain the perfect gentleman, master the fate and probably be thought a fool than to act and remove all doubt. Regards, Stromberg ,____, //'___________________________________________________ Thinking without Banisters | |||
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| <allen day> |
What I feeling like doing, and what I'm going to do, is say absolutely nothing, ever, to my friend about those nicks and dings, and then my wife and I are going to have him and his wife over for an after-Christmas dinner. This spring, I'm going to work up some mule deer/pronghorn/whitetail loads for that 270 Win. and get it ready for next hunting season. It may even see Africa a time or two before its career is over. Either way, the friendship will endure........  AD | ||
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Allan: Best solution I've heard yet. Also my way of thinking. | |||
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Allen Day Well done.  There is nothing as permanent as a good temporary repair. | |||
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Well Allen, it sounds like he did you a favor. You've stated before that you don't like "safe-queens." Now you can hunt with it. | |||
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Allen, As expected, you have risen to the top on this issue. Most here will respect you for that. IIRC, you mentioned your friend was considerable older than you. Some day you won't have him around. When that does happen, you'll pull that rifle out of the safe, admire the scratches and toast his memory with a glass of single malt. Best regards, Dan | |||
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Even a great friend can be immature about somethings. I, for one can look at a gun and give it whiskey dents so I never, ever borrow someone else's. OTOH, since I am so good at creating "character" in a rifle I never fear about loaning one of mine. Know your limitations! "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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I see this thread is still alive and I am pleased that Allen Day brought it up and now has reached a comfortable solution for himself. I wish that Hot Core would refrain from personal attacks. A person might think that he has some perverse need to be chastized. Join the NRA | |||
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That is because you have only seen the current line. You can search back if you desire, or go forward with false concepts of the past. Same answer as above. You are just seeing the current posts not the old Termite Food can't be beat ignorance. Just telling it like it is. If you don't like it, it doesn't change a thing. He is still a very-stupid, poorly-educated, sniveling and whinning, self-aggrandizing, loud-mouth, blow-hard, braggart which is clearly evident in darn near every post he makes. | |||
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Hotcore......you're looking pretty sad here. | |||
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Alan, your solution demonstrates that you're a gentleman and true friend, that you truly value that 28 years of friendship over finances that can be replaced.........a true Northerner! ~Arctic~ A stranger is a friend we haven't met | |||
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| <allen day> |
Hot Core, one of the fringe benefits I've enjoyed from this thread is to watch you continue your process of self-destruction before the entire AR community....... Well done! AD | ||
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"Telling it like it is..." - seldom is. More usually, it's a lack of imagination that reflects poorly on the speaker. One may disagree with a person without insults. A failure to find an argument that can do so is a real failure. Jaywalker | |||
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The internet and the forums are new to all of us. They present a real opportunity to learn and or spread pain. When I started on the forums I was on the boating and car forums more and I admit that I tried out this or that behavior. Some others have done the same here or on other forums. But those with a decent heart have improved. I have tried to join those with decent hearts and still I want to show my stuff and tell when I did well. This is good. We have free will to behave as we want to. I suggest that we all try to improve. "If one speaks or acts with a cruel mind, misery follows, as the cart follows the horse... If one speaks or acts with a pure mind, happiness follows, as a shadow follows its source." Join the NRA | |||
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There are many morons that inhabit this great forum, some are even sociopaths, but Hot Core is just your plain garden variety bitter little man, who embodies the "if I can't own it then it must be garbage" pernicious envy that probably will consume him in the end. He's not the worst we have here, but then again, it takes intelligence to be psychotic and Hot Core's just a harmless buffoon. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Still NO FLICKS of the horrendous damage done to the previously pristine and perfect rifle. Could it be because there is no actual damage or that it is so small as to be considered "insignificant" and would make someone look like a Total Fool for sniveling and whinning about it?And it is interesting to note not a word of Thanks to you people from the inconsiderate, ill-mannered, very-stupid, sniveling and whinning, self-aggrandizing, loud-mouth, blow-hard, braggart for coming to his defense. You folks sure know how to pick your heros. | |||
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