The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Has anyone heard from Jack Belk?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| one of us |
Judy since I was the one who used the word plaintiff i guess your commente where directed at me. Please show me where I misused the word or confused the meaning of plaintiff and defendent. | |||
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Judy also tell us why a firearm maker couldn't be the plaintiff? ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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"The last one I recall reading about was against Winchester <USRAC> because of a ruptured case and a lost eye" I'm not familiar with this case. But what the hell is your point? You can be damn sure if I lost my eye to a fault by Winchester I'd go after them as well. Being pro-gun doesn't mean manufactures get a pass. [ 11-02-2003, 20:13: Message edited by: dempsey ] | |||
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| One of Us |
Mickey1, our cross dressing troll Judy has indeed gotten into waters over his/her/it's head. In truth a gunsmith or a stockmaker that holds a customers firearm over 24 hours is required to log that item into a bound book and have an FFL. If an item can be fixed on the spot or the parts ordered and the firearm brought back, the firearm repaired and removed from the premises that day then, no FFL is required. I knew of an elderly gentleman that worked in that fashion. A stockmaker is not requied to have an FFL unless the metalwork of the firearm is in his shop for over 24 hours. Almost impossible to get by that one but not so with refinishers, recoil pad attachments. etc. Refinishing is not properly done without the metal in the wood but some folks don't understand that and do otherwise. | |||
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Chic Interesting, I know of a couple of pretty well known gunsmiths (at least around here) who don't have FFL's. I asked Judy/Todd E/Scott Sweet to post it because of their penchant for the same type of question. ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} T-town is Tokyo? Tacoma. ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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quote:here's the fact accompli, The UPS and USPS allow him to receive guns, for years. They do NOT do this whillynilly... there is no QUESTION if he has an FFL, there is a question if one can keep the faith in an agreement one made with a custom gunsmith. Brian, I PERFECTLY understand were you are with your valuable guns. I also understand that a quick post "anyone seen jack about lately" might have even been in order. ANYTHING past that, especially bringing the business matters to a public forum where one KNOWS jack is not present is, well, hmm, let's say "unfair" to jack. Then the horseshit flying around of theft, call the atf, is he illegal... is exactly that, horseshit. If those that entered into a bargin and an agreement with jack are not 100% pleased with JACK they should settle with JACK first, and then, if they feel some recourse may be required, MIGHT bring it public. But, You know what? You don't know if he's had a stroke and has 30 lucid minutes a day, and remembers to call once in awhile. Did he? heck if I know... Could he Yep. Take this crap back into the background, and post the results. jeffe [ 11-03-2003, 02:55: Message edited by: jeffeosso ] | |||
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I am new to this forum and this is my first post. I have no dog in this specific fight, but I have strong feelings on the general topic. I recently retired (that's what jubilado means in Spanish) from a career that included responsibility for customer service training for a fairly large workforce. I have been a gun nut all my life, so obviously I have had my share of dealings with gunsmiths, gun dealers, etc. I am well aware of the difficulties of running a small business, and I also know that custormers can be a PIA at times, maybe losts of the time. But there is no excuse for poor communications with customers. I have just about zero patience with this crap, because there is little excuse for it. I don't give a damn if the 'smith is the world's greatest artist in wood and metal, if he doesn't respect the customer and his interest I won't deal with him. Most of the problems are brought on by the 'smith himself. Most customers are reasonable and only want to know that their baby is safe and in good hands, and at least a reasonable estimate of the time and cost of the project. This should start with a postcard or email noting that the items has been received, and a work order outlining what is to be done. If there are unanticipated delays, the 'smith should take the initiative to contact the customer and explain it. I know that phone calls are disruptive, but the way some professionals handle it it to have "office hours" during which they will take and return calls, and SAY SO UP FRONT IN THEIR LITERATURE. I't just simple good business practice. This "temperamental craftsman" mystique that some gunsmiths and other craftsman like to cultivate is pure crap as far as I am concerned. I wonder how these folks would feel if their doctors, auto mechanics, plumbers, etc. did the same to them. It may sound like I am unfairly painting gun professionals with an overly broad brush, and I'll agree that it is not only gunsmiths who do this. But in many years of experience I have found it particularly prevalent in the gun business. This sort of poor customer service has no place in modern business practice, and I for one refuse to deal with such individuals if I can help it. | |||
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Black Bart, you have a PM. Four Tails. | |||
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| <Rusty> |
Ya know what this thread has written all over it? FEEDING FRENZY . This is amazing! Now all we know is that someone hasn't heard form him, he has my rifle, he may have health problems. . . . .Geez! Y'all have all but crucified the guy in abstenia! The really amazing thing about this thread is that no one, I mean NO ONE, has accused to man of doing poor or shoddy work. No one has accused him of stealing. Why, Hell Art Alpin, took folk's money, didn't deliver goods, delivered crap ammo, that you could turn the bullets in, in brass that was soft enough to mold with your fingers, and old Art is a Saint to the shooting sports world! Kinda makes ya wonder about what is really important, don't it? If it doesn't , It should! Makes you wonder, that if you are forced out of biz, cause you can't manage your shit, and don't want to deal with the problems you caused, you are a hero, but if you are laid up, you are a thief" Just a FEEDING FRENZY! [ 11-03-2003, 02:56: Message edited by: Rusty ] | ||
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USPS and UPS certainly do not ask whether a recipient has an FFL. This is a hell of a thread but--where's Jack? | |||
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I don't see why a bunch of the people participating in the feeding frenzy that Rusty so aptly described don't go over to Huntamerica and join Swamp. This is the same exact topic that raised his ire and caused the "ban button" to flash with great regularity one night, and all because we questioned his continued need for dwelling into Jack and his affairs. I also sympathize with folks who have guns and cash with Jack but can't for the life of me see the need for every Tom, Dick, or Harry to get involved and make all sorts of recomendations and allegations. As to whether Jack has an FFL or not, I would be very interested in knowing WHERE the person who first brought this up got his information. quote:It seems they are strangely quiet since they dropped that crap in the stew and are just sitting back to watch it explode. Matter of fact I haven't seen even one more post from them. It seems someone has a giant axe to grind in this situation. I would be curious if this quote was supplied to J Bennett by that particular person and how many more people they have gotten to help keep the pot stirred. I am like a lot of others. Why not let it die. | |||
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Sorry - posted something then thought better of it. To the fellow who sent the PM - won't mention the name, but thanks, I appreciate it and will take your advice. [ 11-03-2003, 21:34: Message edited by: Jim in Idaho ] | |||
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quote:Sorry, I should have been clearer... I thought Judy was talking about the bogus lawsuits brought by cities agianst gun makers...The ones that try to sue the manufacterers because some crack head gang member shot a grandmother.... I'm aware of Jacks position on Remington triggers ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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Actually Jack has been an expert witness many times for the plaintiff against gun makers, primarily Remington is my understanding. Personally, I find it funny, and ironic, that a lot of the guys saying "Shut up if you don't have a rifle in Jack's shop, it's not your concern", are some of the same ones who jumped on the bandwagon with Jack against Remington, all the while posting "I'll never own a Remington...". You can't have it both ways guys. Either everyone is allowed in, or everyone without a dog in the fight is excluded, in each argument. You can't pick & choose when it's convenient for your side. | |||
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When Jack makes it back, or anyone contacts him, tell him i want to buy his short 416 rigby reamer and dies. and, yeah, I will be doing biz with him again jeffe | |||
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quote:Cold Bore aka Remington employee; it is not the same thing. Nobody here is saying I won�t do business with Jack because he doesn�t return phone calls or perform work in a timely manner. What is going on here is people who are not doing business with Jack speculating wildly in an obvious �piling on� about a situation they know nothing about. Quite a bit different then saying I won�t own a Remington because of safety concerns or issues. You chose to quote me but I was never one of those who piled on Remington. If fact I have gotten into heated, -well heated for me anyway- discussions with both Chic and Jack where I was taking the side of Remington and they took exception to my stand that the person holding the rifle has ultimate responsibility not a manufactured part. Just for the record I don�t own one though, I prefer Mausers. Does that make my opinion invalid? | |||
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quote:You chose to quote me but I was never one of those who piled on Remington.[/QUOTE] Howard- I also chose to remove your name from the "Quoted by:" line in my first post. It wasn't directed at you. It was a general post to anybody/everybody who is saying one thing here but did just what they're upset about here in a different argument. Your line just happened to be a short, to the point, quote that referenced Jack's background in testifying against a gun manufacturer. My point is still valid. If somebody has never owned, or shot, a particular rifle (in this case the M700 trigger argument), are they any more qualified to argue the point than the guys in this thread that don't have work at Jack's shop? Is saying "Jack won't get my business" any different than saying "Remington won't get my business"? | |||
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For all those in favor of Jack, I dont see any of you trying to help him out. All I see is everyone typing on the computer telling everyone what a great guy he is, but yet, know one will invest the time or money to see how he is , or help the people out that have work sitting at his shop. What a bunch of crap! | |||
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And just where the fuck is your plane ticket GSP? How many receivers have you polished for Jack lately? Hmm? How many rear scope base holes have you tig welded and redrilled correctly. And realistically, how many here could actually do the kind of work Jack needs in order to help out. As I recall, most here use Jack to do work for them. There are some here that can do the work but they have their own shops to run. | |||
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GSP. As an aspiring Smith don't think I haven't thought about taking a trip up to help Jack out. I'd like nothing better than to help/repay Jack. I've learned more from Jack on this forum then from most of my instructors at Smithing School. But, I can't just quit my day job, my kid kinda likes to eat. And more importantly, I'm not sure Jack would think it Kosher to take payment for work that he was commissioned to do himself but had someone else do. Well, and the fact that I'm just plain not good enough yet. [ 11-04-2003, 00:45: Message edited by: z1r ] | |||
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Isn't a bit odd that no one can contact the man to see if there is anything wrong? A lot of speculating, isn't there one person that reads this board that actually knows the man or socializes with him? If he is sick and it is posted maybe all the BS would stop. [ 11-04-2003, 00:46: Message edited by: Agunner012 ] | |||
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Zack, how many have you sent to him? How many are you going to send? I dont need Jack to polish or tig shit for me, I have my own fucking lathe, mill and tig welder. I might by the man a steak dinner, beer and have a great conversation about building guns with him. But that doesnt help this situation at all. I apologize if my words came across the wrong way. | |||
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z1r, I wasnt talking about finishing the work, I wouldnt take over another mans job, ever! Well, maybe if the money is right. What I was trying to say, is maybe someone close could get the unfinished guns, to those that dont want to wait to have them finished. Maybe someone close could check on him to see if he is able to send back the parts. | |||
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Cold Bore fair enough. I still say it�s different to speculate on a person not producing work and holding others possessions and stirring up rumors about it when you have no work in the person�s possession. If someone says I don�t like what I am hearing about Jack so I choose to not have him do work for me that is ok with me. I think we all know that hasn�t been the focus of this thread. | |||
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I think some people charge and get more money for their reputation for quality work in a timely manner. | |||
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Jack's Back Look at this email for contact info http://www.nookhill.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=008259 jeffe | |||
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Now, That we've had out little fun, Gentlemen and troll that posted negative things might be better human beings to go back and edit/remove your negative/negligant posts about Jack. After all, you wouldn't want a search engine turn up YOUR name as pouting this, well, blackwater sewage, do you? jeffe | |||
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Here's a link to something I don't think it would hurt at least SOME of the people here to read: http://members.aol.com/intwg/flamewars.htm I'm also glad to see Mr. Belk is back. For the record here the ONLY reason I ever posted something on this discussion in the first place is that I noticed how long it was so obviously took a look at it since apparently there was great concern. Secondly, I noticed the possibility that perhaps Belk did not have an FFL. This set off alarm bells as I know of persons who totally through ignorance have neglected having one and because of that, have suffered severe consequences. I DID NOT WANT TO SEE THAT HAPPEN TO SOMEONE WHO IS OBVIOUSLY A VERY WELL APPRECIATED PARTICIPANT ON THESE FORUMS AND SO MADE INQUIRY AS TO ASCERTAIN WHETHER OR NOT MR. BELK HAD ONE. Incredibly (to me at least) as a result, I was personally attacked and frankly speaking called absolutely FILTHY names, by persons I don't even know or with which I have had no other discussions or arguments with. You people need to read through the link I've provided. You attacked someone (me) completely erroneously because you completely misunderstood the reason(s) for my posting the question. I WAS NOT ATTACKING NOR HAD ANY INTENTION TO ATTACK THE INTEGRITY OR PROFESSIONALISM OF MR. BELK IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. But apparently some of you sure thought I was. If someone did show that he had erroneously neglected to have an FFL, I would have been the first one to say "Holy ___, we all better get over to his place real quick and help him get straight!!!" As I said, I'm posting this so you can understand EXACTLY why I posted an inquiry about an FFL. I think I'm owed some apologies - and maybe some others also. Or am I just going to be attacked for this post also? [ 11-05-2003, 19:42: Message edited by: sonofagun ] | |||
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| Moderator |
I too have received VERY VERY VERY threatening/foul language/ill written emails from some people in this forum, of this topic. I informed them that the email would go into my HOLD file, until I felt like deleteing it. quote:Do YOU have a gun with Jack? If not, then your original post was pure rumor/fear mongering during a lynching. YOU owe Jack an appology, as his where abouts, not his integrity, was the question at hand. Now, if you do have a gun with him, you have a beef for it taking awhile. If you don't, and you wish to add scorn and complaint to him, you took the "correct" path. Let me give you some advice, paraphrased from Randy travis... if you find yourself in a hole, let go of the shovel jeffe | |||
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Horse Hockey. http://members.aol.com/intwg/flamewars.htm [ 11-05-2003, 21:31: Message edited by: sonofagun ] | |||
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quote:Isn't that also known as polo? | |||
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| <Hellrazor> |
quote:Uhm, i will guess #2 because you are still the same bandwagon jumping twit you were 2 or 3 pages ago. | ||
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Damn howard I was feeling down,but that blow job you gave me sure lifted my spirits. I think it was the the fact that you swallowed. By the way I'm sorry about your ears howard. Got to go my baby sitters going to catch me on the computer again. | |||
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quote:Do YOU have a gun with Jack? If not, then your original post was pure rumor/fear mongering during a lynching. jeffe[/QB][/QUOTE] agreed. | |||
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Bull crap. Can't you guys read? I posted for the record on this page EXACTLY why I inquired about an FFL. So now you guys are calling me a liar? If so, why not say so plainly and for the record. What the hell is the matter with yous? I'm out of this thread. [ 11-06-2003, 08:31: Message edited by: sonofagun ] | |||
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| Moderator |
quote:What the hell is the matter with yous? EXACTLY you don't have a dog in the fight, but you felt you could get your licks in. For your little flamewar thread, puppy, I'll add another one "piling on",,, where you feel that you have a right to say negative things about a person just because "everyone else" is, and still have no basis in fact. you should withdrawl your comments on the ffl, period jeffe | |||
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