The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Has anyone heard from Jack Belk?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Okay, gentlemen.. it's time for a dose of grow the F**K UP Starting rumors that he's operating illegally, alledging he's "stealing guns" and threatening to call the ATF is pure HORSESHIT. something that a gagle of preteen cheerleaders would do. If you want this handled properly, handle it PRIVATELY. For all you know, the poor bastard's had a stroke and can't do jack shit. Gun smith's don't make enough to "r-u-n-n-t o-f-f" with your money. My suggestion and it's a real dossey Call a 2 bit shyster lawyer Have him write a real nice letter, explaining that you require a simple status update of your firearm, including serial number, and ask Jack if the work is in progress. Ask for a 10 day reply, and if that don't work, call the local cops and ask them to check and make sure he's okay. Stop thinking about YOURSELVES in this. As a friend of several long time gunsmiths, that means OLDDUDES, I am constantly worried about them, as my friends. And, yeah, I have seen a guy laid up for 3 weeks, totally unable to do anything, and so drugged up, BY DOCTORS, that he couldn't reply if he remembered he wanted. Now, take this SHIT privately and handle it like a man. I am tired of hearing the whining of puppies. Jack is a good guy, an honest man, or you wouldn't have sent your guns to him. Remember that jeffe [ 10-31-2003, 03:15: Message edited by: jeffeosso ] | |||
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| <Hellrazor> |
Good to see another person with the same opinion as me. | ||
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Since everyone else has, I will add my two cents. Like Jeffeosso, I am friends with a couple of the older ACGG smiths. One thing that they have told me is that there is a fear that admitting to any infirmity will be the kiss of death for a custom gunsmith's business, as customers will worry about the guy dying with their work in his shop, and no way to retrieve it. That does not make a lack of communication excusable, but perhaps the Belk is scared, and scared people tend to do stupid things. It sounds like a lot of you have valid concerns about the status of the work, in which case, I would second Jeffeosso's advice to you. | |||
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jeffeosso....well said. cheers...bud | |||
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jeffeoso: Here here! I understand the customer's frustration (as described above), but I hate to see a virtual lynch mob forming. I have no doubt that Jack is an honest guy, and I'm sure there is a good reason for his lack of communication. I'd send any gun I have to Jack for his ministrations! He might be slow (as he clearly is now), but from all I have heard he is NOT dishonest. I wouldn't call the ATF on my worst enemy! ![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon} jpb | |||
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I thought this guy made most of his money helping lawyers sue gunmakers e.g. 'Expert witness'. Not my kinda of gun nut!!! Do you all support the law suits of the big city mayors, too! I hope all of you who have firearms with this guy get them back in proper order. | |||
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quote:I think what has concerned many people here is the fact that Jack has made contact with only a select few of his customers. If he'd made no contact whatsoever, you would have a valid arguement, but that's not the case here. I believe when this thread was started, it was started with honorable intentions, and was not necessarily the wrong thing to do. When you consider Jack has posted thousands of times on both this forum and H.A., one could easily presume that a contact could be made with him via one of these forums. I have to deal with customers each and every day, and when I get to the point that I don't feel it's necessary to correspond with them in a timely manner, or finish their work that was promised within a given length of time without some sort of explanation, if I'm not already out of business, I should be. When you are selling a product or service that is not necessarily unique to you and your business alone, you are at the mercy of your customers. Failure to provide a good service or product will lend them to looking for alternate places to find the similiar thing, as well they should. Having to deal with the BATF quite regularly I believe is not as bad as some would make it out to be. I'm not saying that I enjoy going through all of the paperwork, but some of it is necessary. But what does upset me is the fact that their are people who would rather let someone who is in violation of their FFL license just slip on through because they're worried about the "jack-boot thugs". If every other gunsmith has to abide by the laws, then why shouldn't Jack as well? It's called accountability. I've never heard of pains in a man's shoulders making him unable to call all of his customers after months patiently waiting. | |||
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jeffeosso, I don't know who made you the forum cop here, but I think it is simple common courtesy to respond to customers inquiring about their work. Dropping out of sight and not responding to repeated efforts at contact is not the highest caliber of business relations. I don't know why you think you have the right to comment in that fashion. | |||
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there you are judy, been looking for ya. off your meds again huh? hows about getting your berkely ass back over to the political forum where you and your liberal garbage won't soil the good people on the gunsmithing forum. these people make the world run and don't need to be listening to your whining crap. bake us some cookies and bring them back with you. ![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif){kind=icon} ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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I have or should say had a rifle with Jack to have some work done to it. I say that because I think that entitles to me comment on him. My informal survey on this and other threads finds one thing in common among the �sic everything including the kitchen sink on Jack� commentators, they have never hired Jack to do work for them nor do they know him. Those of us who have had Jack do work or are currently having him do work take a different view. Maybe that is partly due to the fact we have something at stake here but also it�s due to the fact we know Jack. Jack needs to be excited about something to do it. My opinion based on my observations is he had a difficult time with run of the mill �production� work. He doesn�t really like it so finds excuses to not get it done. Doesn�t make him a crook, doesn�t mean he has dropped off the face of the earth or that you will never see your firearms again. The one thing for which Jack has no excuse is his lack of communication with his customers. Everyone can afford a long distance phone card to return calls. Everyone in America can get access to a computer to answer emails. However frequently human nature wants to duck problems therefore compounding them rather the confronting them head on and dealing with them I think that is Jack�s problem here. | |||
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| Moderator |
quote:Bill, Sir, I have the equal right to state my opinion that you have to dispute it. Does anyone disagree with that precept? jeffe [ 10-31-2003, 22:10: Message edited by: jeffeosso ] | |||
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quote:judy bung baby - thinking of you ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} >>>>>  | |||
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Howard, I have to say that I think you hit the nail square. Jack does outstanding work and is knowledgeable. It is fun to work on a project you are interested in. Heck I would be slim dumb and happily waiting long past promised if he regularly gave me an update. I think most the rest of us would also. An excuse any excuse is better than being ignored. I did finally manage to get Jack on the phone and my action is supposed to be on its way to me. I also agree that this thread most likely started as just another attempt at contact. Little did he know several others were in the same sinking boat. | |||
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Mook, Thanks, that made my day. AKJD | |||
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Jeff, Put yourself in my position.You have two rifle worth a considerable amount of money,and also several hundred dollars with a 'smith a considerable distance from you.This person then claims he mailed you one of the rifles,then cuts off all contact with you while selectively communicating with others.Your rifle never arrives.For all you know your rifle is currently being used as a night stand by UPS,but you can't find out because the 'smith won't communicate with you. I have called over 30 times (always busy no matter what time of the day),sent numerous e-mails,made posts here,all to no avail.I was going to send a registered letter but I have been informed by more than one person that they have done this and Jack refused to sign it so it came back to them. Before taking drastic measures,I thought I'd try to get ahold of him somehow on here,or at least see if anyone had been in contact with him.It was the choices of others to turn this into a three ring circus,not me. I will keep trying to contact Jack on the phone through this weekend.If I can't reach him by Tuesday morning,myself and another person in the same position as I will be calling the Buhl Police department to have them go talk to Jack. Brian. | |||
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Whew! Just read this entire thread. IMPORTANT QUESTION: Has anybody seen or do they have a copy of Mr. Belk's FFL (which is in question)? If so, would you please post it here? If you've been sending guns to him, wouldn't/shouldn't someone have a copy? If not...uh oh. ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon} Hoping for the best in this. | |||
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Sonofagun are you having Jack do work for you? Are you planning on having him do work? If so those are issues you can address with him. If the answer to the above two questions is no then the correct response is, don't worry about it. | |||
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quote:~judy, the only kind of "gunsmiths" you know anything about are douche bag salesmen. Go troll somewhere else. ------------------------ As for Jack Belk, may I suggest he might have more money if he hadn't spent so much time here on this website GIVING away free advise and instructions to all who asked. Jeffe - you hit the nail on the head. Let's everyone shut up until they KNOW what Jack's problem is. Surely there is a member close enough to where Jack lives to physically go by and check on the poor guy and see how he is. It's understandable to be concerned about your gun's welfare. Let's NOT turn this concern into a witchhunt. ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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Lighten up Howard - No where in this thread has it been established apparently whether or not Belk has an FFL which is EXTREMELY relevant to this discussion. I'm sure others would agree. No, I haven't had any work done or planning to. Is that a requirement to post here? What the hell - does everyone here just itch to pick a fight with any/everyone? [ 11-01-2003, 19:41: Message edited by: sonofagun ] | |||
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So Howard you say you've had a gun off to Mr. Belk. Have you seen his FFL or have a copy or how did you ship to him? And I'm NOT trying to be smart!!!! Just think we should clear up about an FFL. [ 11-01-2003, 20:00: Message edited by: sonofagun ] | |||
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| <dcan> |
sonofagun do you know Jack or are you just out on a witch-hunt. What is with this witch hunt of a few of you who do not know this man and likely in some cases could not afford him to do the work on your rifle. Smiths all over the world are backed up with work however one way around this is to hire underlings to do the work. You then have a ? did the smith do it or did the apprentice do it. I respect Jack in that he is doing these himself rather than handing over jobs to others. The only semi-smith in town is likely 1-2 years behind and trying to tell customers he does not want anything more to do right know. Jack is likely more aware of the law than you may be and I am sure is legit. So sonofagun unless you have an item with Jack or are an ATF agent then PSTFU. Don Cannon BTW I have spent 36 years dealing in the firearms community and even the best can burn out for a while it is not dishonesty. [ 11-01-2003, 20:21: Message edited by: dcan ] | ||
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Another ___ who just wants to jump on me for asking a simple damn question - just answer the question (or show me where it's PROVEN or PROVE that) he has an FFL?! I mean no animosity towards JB or anyone else here. Good gunsmiths ARE worth more than their weight in gold. Apparently many of you don't want to discuss and resolve problems but DO want to pick fights instead! | |||
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Sonofafun you are the one trying to pick a fight with other posters here and you are trying to stir up trouble with the Jack Belk situation by putting your oar in the water when you don't have a boat. Jack's FFL has no bearing on you so don't worry about it. | |||
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| <Rusty> |
Jeffe, I knew there was a real good reason I liked you! Well said sir! Mook, That's the funniest thing I've seen in a long time! Perfect for the thread! Rusty We band of brothers! [ 11-01-2003, 20:57: Message edited by: Rusty ] | ||
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Sonofagun, I don't think whether Jack has a FFL or not is germaine to the original problem posted. It's a rumor someone in the thread started and now seems to have taken on a life of it's own. Whay should Jack have to "prove" he has an FFL to anyone on this board unless they are shipping a gun to him for work? | |||
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sonofagun, thinks the world owes him a life. If you so badly want to know... go find out for yourself turd boy. Why would anyone have to prove jack sqwat to you? | |||
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sonofagun stated quote:And you are doing an admirable job. | |||
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If jack can get away without having an ffl,more power to him. What does an FFL make you an honest gunsmith.Hell no it doesn't,its a piece of paper that the goverment made money off of selling to you. Fuck the goverment,they have to much control over us as it is. Its not that jack gets bored working on production grade rifles,its that he can gouge you for more money doing custom rifles and work. What do you think the guild is all about? Its about a bunch of assholes peddling their work through a network,because they can't stand on their own. [ 11-02-2003, 00:58: Message edited by: RMK ] | |||
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quote:What do you mean its not germaine? If he doesn't, that could perfectly explain what the problem is (or has become). Have any of you seen or have a copy of his FFL? Still waiting for an answer - so far the answer ain't yes. I'm not the one who tried picking a fight here - I asked a simple question and instead of a straight answer someone started in in on me. Must be how some of you get your jollies. I'VE NEVER PICKED A FIGHT WITH ANYONE ON HERE BEFORE OR CALLED ANYONE NAMES - NOT HERE FOR THAT - CHECK MY POSTINGS; YOU WON'T FIND ONE INSTANCE OF THAT! So I don't know exactly what some of you guys problems are. | |||
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RMK, You have again shown your complete and utter ignorance about another topic that you know absolutely nothing about. You are batting 1000. | |||
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Don't be hard on poor RMK, his baby sister just beat the crap out of him and his boyfriend dumped him so he's feeling bad. [ 11-02-2003, 01:54: Message edited by: Howard ] | |||
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First off, I feel that BrianM did what he thought was right in that he could not reach Jack after several failed attempts. What has taken place since then in reguards to Jack is a downright shame. Jack spent countless hours here and also at HA giving out FREE advice and help to ANYONE that asked for it. I consider Jack a good freind even though we have never met face to face but have spent several hours talking on the phone with questions I may have had as to custom work I was thinking of having done. I have No Doubt that Jack Belk is an Honest man, for whatever reason he is having some problems and I think he will get them worked out in time. I do, however find Fault with Jack, for not making contact with his customers, with updates on their projects. And to those customers that have projects with Jack, I hope that things will work out for you and you get those projects back soon. | |||
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One of Us |
This is unfortunate. I really didnt want to say anything else here, but one thing that occurs to me which no one else has touched on. If I were a craftsman like Jack, found myself behind the 8-ball, and was constantly and incessantly pestered by a few select individuals, I would probably let my answering machine do the talking to them too. MAYBE THATS what this thread is really about!!! On the other hand, If I were Jack and saw this thread, Id PROBABLY have something to say about it.... ![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif){kind=icon} Whatever the case, one thing that seems to be a truism is that the common perception that "the customer doesnt give a shit, he just wants service" only seems to work with about half of the gunsmithing community. The other half......, Well!!! | |||
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| new member |
quote:Where do you get that crap? | |||
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Other than the legitimate question of "Have you heard from Belk?" the rest of this thread mostly sounds like a bunch of old women. And no, Judy, you're incorrect. I understand that Jack has been an expert witness numerous times, but I doubt that he is involved with lawsuits against gun manufacterers... | |||
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Actually Jack has been an expert witness many times for the plaintiff against gun makers, primarily Remington is my understanding. | |||
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It is my understanding that an individual can send a firearm to a manufacturer or gunsmith (or stockmaker, custom finisher, etc.) for work and it can be returned to the individual. There is no responsibilty for the individual to obtain any license or other paperwork from the other end before sending the firearm for work. That is how I read the BATF regs that are available at: www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/index.htm | |||
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First off for all you intellectually challenged guys . . . a gunsmith MUST have a FFL! This is s federal regulations. If a gunsmith is operating without one, this includes stockmakers by the way, they are in violation of federal statutes and subject to the full fury of the BATF! With regard to where I got my information about Mr. Belk working for lawyers suing gun makers. Right from the horse's mouth you might say. The man has, on numereous occasions, right here at AR, stated that he works for law firms as an expert witness with regard to firearms related failures resulting in personal injury or death. The last one I recall reading about was against Winchester <USRAC> because of a ruptured case and a lost eye. Guess what firearms manufactures don't need to bring in outside help. Firearms manufacturers have there own experts and lawyers. Lastly, firearms manufactures are not the PLAINTIFFS <the plaintiff is the individual doing the suing>. By his own admission, Mr. Belk works for those greedy ambulance chasers. He admits this proudly himself in numerous posts here at AR. If you do not believe me, search his 5000+ posts here on AR. It is clearly written there in B&W. | |||
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Judy State the Federal Statute that declares that a Gunsmith and a Stockmaker must hold an FFL. State the BATF regulation and supply the text that requires a Stockmaker or Gunsmith to hold an FFL Supply the BATF definition and text that defines the terms Gunsmith and Stockmaker. If you are having a problem with this consult your masucline side. You know, the expert on all things firearm. You are drifting into your other personna more and more lately, better tell the Doc. | |||
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