quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
And Don also preaches that a "Belted Case" is a poor design

And he is of course correct. There is not a single belted magnum (with the possible exeption of the 450 Marlin) that would not be better if it was identical to it's existing design sans belt. Belts were a cosmetic addition that serve no useful purpose in a bolt action rifle.
Certainly there are several belted rounds that have acheived legendary status. They are here to stay. But they have become great despite the belt not because of it. The simple fact is they would have been better if they had been created from the start without belts....................DJ

There is no doubt that belted cases has a higher safetylevel, according to case buttom rupture, than non belted.
At least when used in a CRF action.
When used in a PR action with solid support, the different become less.

i understand brownell's has been selling M700 actions for some time. this would be an easy way to start your project. while i an becoming a CRF convert, the three M700 rifles i've owned have given good, reliable service.

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
[...There is no doubt that belted cases has a higher safetylevel, according to case buttom rupture, than non belted.
At least when used in a CRF action.
When used in a PR action with solid support, the different become less.

Totally agree. Anyone using a CRF without it being chambered for a a Belted Case really doesn't understand with a pitiful design the CRF rifles have for gas handling.

But of course that is obvious by the responders reputations for having a complete lack of firearms design knowledge.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul from nz:
...well, its really quite rough looking, and it fouls pretty bad, put about 120 shots through it and it aint gotten alot better. I got someone else to look through it and they said that it was also pretty rough, you can see obvious machining marks and its pretty patchy like the metal is pealing off. ...

Hey Paul, That is something I've not heard about the Kimbers. Had no idea. Generally the only thing I see is praise. Perhaps I need to look a bit closer at "who" is bragging on those rags.

I've never seen a rough barrel Remington and never expect to.

Some of the other posters just happened to remind me, a HUGE benefit of any Remington is you get the very best Factory Trigger mechanism available to the public. It has the fastest Lock Time available from the factory which means an additional accuracy benefit.

They still usually need a bit of tuning, but that is because of fools like "augy and belk" who believe in blaming and sueing companies when people make careless mistakes in handling. Any Remington Trigger Mechanism that has been "properly adjusted" is as SAFE as any other rifle manufacturer.

Best of luck to you with the new Remington.

quote:

There are so many function defects in the Remmy design that I really don't want to be around one when hunting. ...

This is the absolute truth!

quote:

Some of the other posters just happened to remind me, a HUGE benefit of any Remington is you get the very best Factory Trigger mechanism available to the public. It has the fastest Lock Time available from the factory which means an additional accuracy benefit.

Rem Whore

Times have changed and I suspect we must change with the times....

After further consideration I suspect I will have to agree that there is nothing I can point to at this time with the inherent design of the "current production fire control" on the M/700 platform.

Recently I saw one of the first "SPL" fire controls in the public domain on another forum!

The "SPL" is Remington's New fire control design which features a trigger - sear block design, and is advertised as being safely adjustable by a Remington Recommended Smith down to 2.5 Lbs in a publication that came out earlier this year. The new design is more corrosion resistant than the previous design, should not readily be fouled by moisture or condensation that may freeze inside the housing just to name a few features of the SPL fire control. The new system is very crisp with no over travel and should be readily welcomed by the shooting public once they realize the existence of the change.

For more info on the Remington SPL fire control see Jon Sundra's article in Predator Extreme, Feb 2006 issue.

Aug ><>

quote:

They still usually need a bit of tuning, but that is because of fools like "augy and belk" who believe in blaming and sueing companies when people make careless mistakes in handling. Any Remington Trigger Mechanism that has been "properly adjusted" is as SAFE as any other rifle manufacturer.

REALLY - - - Now Rem Whore how can you possibly substantiate this claim.... Care to further elaborate?

I for one do not confuse the amount of posts you have made for actually knowing what you are talking about.... for instance It is spelled *Suing*, and you should probably not discuss complex issues of accountability and manufacturer responsibilities to the public trust and safety that you cannot spell ;o)

Aug ><>

quote:

Originally posted by MajorCaliber:

quote:

There are so many function defects in the Remmy design that I really don't want to be around one when hunting. ...

This is the absolute truth!

Would you gentlemen be so kind as to point out what some of these "design flaws" are?

quote:

Originally posted by Oldmodel70:
Hey Hot Bore.........Go to your local shooting range with one of your Remmys. Load it up, and apply the safety. Turn to the guy next to you, and chat for a minute. Go back to your Remmy, take a sight on the target, and pull the trigger.......Oops! Forget the safety was on. Keep your sight picture while slipping off the safety......BOOM!! Oh Sh** Got the target frame! Damn gun!! Forgot the safety can be the trigger sometimes........Tricky Remington gun designers........Trade your trick rifle off for a "rag Winchester".....They're like most guns. They don't go off 'till you pull the trigger. Grant.

If you clean and maintain the weapon and trigger, and you don't go overboard in reducing the spring tension that holds the connector in place, or, back the sear engagement setting into the danger zone, you won't have it going off when you least expect it.

When properly cared for, it is perfectly safe for a hunting weight trigger. But if you are wanting to make a light target trigger out of the factory original, then you need to know what you are doing, and how to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:

There is no doubt that belted cases has a higher safetylevel, according to case buttom rupture, than non belted.

This just isn't true. A properly manufactured non-belted case is just as strong or stronger in the web as a belted case. Belted cases are particularly vunerable to case head separations directly in front of the belt.


As far as 700 actions defects. Ones that I've personally run into:

Safety only blocks the sear. The firing pin can still travel forwards. Better designs like Mausers, Rugers and Winchesters block the firing pin.
The bolt handle usually peens at the primary extraction root. I've seen even new 700's that won't reset the firing pin working the bolt straight up and down because the extraction cam is too short to reset the sear.
The ejector is easily fouled with brass causing failure (I've had this happen a couple times).
The extractor takes a small bit of brass, the extractor is strong enough but sometimes the tiny bit of brass it grabs can lead to a stuck case.
The lugs rarely have even contact from the factory (this is a manufacturing defect not a design defect).
IMO a 3 position safety is preferable to a 2 position safety - though this is just an opinion.
Pot metal construction of the bottom metal.
Bolts are difficult to disassemble for cleaning and almost impossible in the field. Tbis is simple with Mausers, Winchesters and Kimbers.
Trigger is liable to freezing in cold.
Trigger is easy for incompetants to adjust to a dangerous condition.
Trigger springs on newer 700's are way to heavy.

These are a few of my general gripes with 700's. Now to keep it in context you can come up with about as many gripes about any action. 700's can be made into accurate, reliable rifles and are relatively inexpensive. But in a hunting rifle I think that there are more efficient and attractive designs.
I started out with Remingtons and still own a few but have since moved up to other designs for most of my hunting rifles.................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by duikerman:

quote:

Originally posted by MajorCaliber:

quote:

There are so many function defects in the Remmy design that I really don't want to be around one when hunting. ...

This is the absolute truth!

Would you gentlemen be so kind as to point out what some of these "design flaws" are?

Here's a discussion we had awhile back. https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9411043/m/155101283/p/1

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:


Safety only blocks the sear. The firing pin can still travel forwards. Better designs like Mausers, Rugers and Winchesters block the firing pin.

Actually the Remington 700 safety lever lifts the "sear safety cam" up and out of contact with the spring loaded connector and blocks the forward movement of the firing pin. When you release the safety, the sear cam is lowered back into position on the connector. The problem comes from having something prevent the connector from returning to it's position under the safety cam. That's what causes the gun to fire when the safety is released. Winchesters 70's do it all the time when some clowns screw with their triggers. The solution is to know what you are doing before removing spring tension and metal. And how to keep the trigger assembly clean.

DJ
Malm is correct, "the sear safety cam" on the Remington design blocks the forward travel of the striker on safe, just like other designs you mention, however employs a different mechanical mean to do so.
The safety design is sound it is other aspects that make this design unsuitable for the average hunter in various environments and climate conditions as well as susceptibility to manufacturing tolerances of the various 14+ parts that are assembled to comprise this system, among other issues that exist.

Aug ><>

quote:

If you clean and maintain the weapon and trigger, and you don't go overboard in reducing the spring tension that holds the connector in place, or, back the sear engagement setting into the danger zone, you won't have it going off when you least expect it.

When properly cared for, it is perfectly safe for a hunting weight trigger. But if you are wanting to make a light target trigger out of the factory original, then you need to know what you are doing, and how to do it.

Malm
The spring tension does not "hold" the connector is place, it is designed to "retract" the connector to the trigger body and the 2 piece trigger assembly to sear support after the connector performs its intended function. The Trigger connector is "Resiliently Mounted", more of a floating action initially compelled by mechanical cues of the sear and return spring .

Aug ><>

quote:

Originally posted by Oldmodel70:
Hey Hot Bore.........Go to your local shooting range with one of your Remmys. Load it up, and apply the safety. Turn to the guy next to you, and chat for a minute. Go back to your Remmy, take a sight on the target, and pull the trigger.......Oops! Forget the safety was on. Keep your sight picture while slipping off the safety......BOOM!! Oh Sh** Got the target frame! Damn gun!! Forgot the safety can be the trigger sometimes........Tricky Remington gun designers........Trade your trick rifle off for a "rag Winchester".....They're like most guns. They don't go off 'till you pull the trigger. Grant.

Remingtons only do thaty when some "gun
plumber" has backed off the sear engagement too far.

If blamming the RIFLE for it's OWNER turning the sear engagement set-screw half-a-turn TOO FAR isn't stupidity, what would you call it...

The OTHER issue with unmeddled with Remington triggers is congealed factory oil that turns to sticky gunk after 30 years of neglect.
that is a "failure to maintain" issue, another sub-type of "operator malfunction" that CANNOT be blammed on the rifle.

Hey, if you don't change the oil in your car for 49,000 miles then claim the engine was faulty the dealer is likely to run you over with it, and you'd DESERVE IT.

Testing for proper safety and sear engagement is EASY and if you don't do that testing BEFORE discovering (with live ammunition in the rifle)
that it isn't adjusted right, then I suggest you do the rest of us a favor and do such testing with the muzzle against your own head.

I recently (within the last year)purchased a Remington 700 which had a lot of custom work done to it, the action is trued, it's got a surface ground recoil lug a Hart #5profile barrel extensive bedding work...

But it fails "test #1" for sear engagement
With the bolt held firmly forward and cycling the bolt handle up and down the striker does not remain cocked.
Unsuprisingly it also fails "test #2"
with the rifle cocked and safety applied
the trigger is pulled firmly, then when the safety is released, the striker falls.

This trigger is adjusted TOO LIGHT for a "hunting" rifle because simply bouncing the
rifle lightly on it's (soft) recoil pad is sufficient to cause the striker to fall.

this is emphatically NOT the fault of the rifle, but the result of some jackass with a screwdriver and a wheelbarrow full of stupidity.

Blaming the results of intentional meddling
On the rifle when it is some "gun plumber" that is at fault... well, that just plain stupid.

Incompetent adjustments "in the field" does not equal faulty design.

I await an articulate well reasoned reply, but I won't be holding my breath while waiting for it.

AllanD

quote:

I await an articulate well reasoned reply, but I won't be holding my breath while waiting for it.

AllanD

If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day!

Allan
Great Post!!! You have definitely provoked well reasoned thought on my part, I will be sure to be in touch...

Aug ><>

quote:

Originally posted by Augustis:
The Trigger connector is "Resiliently Mounted", more of a floating action initially compelled by mechanical cues of the sear and return spring .

Aug ><>

"Resiliently Mounted", and what makes the connector resilient, the spring that is holding it in place against the trigger lever. If you reduce the springs tension, it becomes less resilient.

OK I said it wrong. I should have said that the Remington safety doesn't block the firing pin directly like it does on the M-70 and Mausers and Rugers. The safety itself doesn't touch the firing pin and hold it back on a 700.

Yes you can mess up just about any trigger but there are far more screwed up Remington triggers out there than any other. Partly is because there are so many Remingtons out there secondly because it's an inferior design for a hunting rifle trigger and is easy to screw up..................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
secondly because it's an inferior design for a hunting rifle trigger and is easy to screw up..................DJ

IYHO.

Malm, IMNSHO & SBHLERO ..........DJ

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
...Yes you can mess up just about any trigger but

WRONG again! It is possible to mess up ANY Trigger.

quote:

there are far more screwed up Remington triggers out there than any other. Partly is because there are so many Remingtons out there

Ah ha, so the problem from your perspective is there have been so many Remingtons sold to everyone world wide(who has any common sense), that the HUGE number of rifles in peoples hands - is causing the problem.

quote:

secondly because it's an inferior design for a hunting rifle trigger and is easy to screw up...

An inferior design? Easy to screw up? Sounds like you want Remington to make them where they won't work at all and "non-adjustable". Sure smells like a peta philosophy to me.

No doubt about it dj, the more you post about the excellent Remingtons, the more obvious your lack of design knowledge becomes.
---

Hey Allen, Nice post.

Take this for what it is worth - augy is a complete idiot. If you hammer him with facts, he always ends up circling the barn trying to create confusion with nothing but foolishness and a lack of actual first-hand knowledge. Then he will "quote" former CBS employee belk for an "expert opinion". Completely pitiful!

Best of luck to you.

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:

There is no doubt that belted cases has a higher safetylevel, according to case buttom rupture, than non belted.

This just isn't true. A properly manufactured non-belted case is just as strong or stronger in the web as a belted case. Belted cases are particularly vunerable to case head separations directly in front of the belt...

The obvious problem is, dj simply doesn't understand CRF "Chamber" designs. Not even a clue as to why he is so WRONG!

Hot Core, Here are the last two rifles I've built:










Why not post some pictures of stuff you have made so people can compare and be able to tell who might actually know something about making rifles.

Sticking with just 308's, I own or have owned Remington's, Winchester's, Steyr's,Savage's, Ruger's, Sako TRG's and others. So when I compare a Remington to others it's from actual extensive experience. What other 308 caliber rifles have you shot for comparison? Maybe you've tried the others, maybe you haven't. But I doubt if you've tried as many as I have you would still claim that Remmy's are so far superior to others.

So instead of playing "Sticks and Stones" why don't we just stick with Facts and actual experience instead of insults and invective...................DJ

quote:

Why not post some pictures of stuff you have made so people can compare and be able to tell who might actually know something about making rifles.

So you believe that posting "pictures" of Rusting Blue steel and Termite Food rifles is an indication that you understand CRF Chamber Design Problems.

I'll admit, I don't understand how that works to prove you know anything except "posting flicks". If it helps you in any way at all, you did a nice job with the flicks.

And, I don't see any kind of "usage marks" on them. Once you take them "outside" in the weather(if you ever decide to), you will(possibly) learn why there are much, MUCH better rifle designs for actual Hunting.

Reminds me of when ad was whinning, sniveling and crying because he let a guy take one of his rifles "outside" and actually "use it".

I will agree they are quite pretty, but I don't understand how that has anything to do with your complete lack of knowledge concerning Chamber Design Problems.
---

Hey Malm, Help me out here. We are both old MARINES, so we speak a somewhat similar language.

How does the pretty rifle flicks that dj posted tie in to his complete and total lack of knowledge concerning CRF Chamber Design Problems?

Is this an upgrade of an old augy ploy to divert the discussion with totally irrelevant, meaningless blather, or am I missing something?

Hot Core, The "CRF Chamber Design Problem" is a complete not issue. Nonsensically blathering about it won't make it one. There are 10's of millions of Mauser 98's and it's derivatives that function perfectly without the additional support of Remington's "Three Rings of Steel". Trying to argue about it is nothing but you enjoying yourself thinking you make sense when you don't.
I've also seen you try to argue with other members on this post who are true experts in their field. I can only conclude you are one of those poor folks who is only happy when argueing with someone and looking foolish, so I think I'll just not play your game from here on out.
I'm well respected by people who's opinions I also respect. Your's just really doesn't matter........................DJ

quote:

Take this for what it is worth - augy is a complete idiot. If you hammer him with facts, he always ends up circling the barn trying to create confusion with nothing but foolishness and a lack of actual first-hand knowledge. Then he will "quote" former CBS employee belk for an "expert opinion". Completely pitiful!

So Rem Whore, are YOU saying you have first hand knowledge?

That is funny because you have never hammered me with anything other than to cry foul - - - LOL!!!

Actually what I quote is EXACTLY what Remington's own engineers have had to say (Word For Word) internally about the conditions that some of us are actually discussing (excluding you of course) as you have never brought much other than your offensive opinion, sniveling and insults to this table of debate in ALL the years we have been going at it....

I can substantiate my claims, what have you got other than lip service and or possibly lies as a defensive posture?

DJ, just ignore him he is trying to grind you down with his BS, Nice looking rifles BTW!! Rem Whore is so egotistical IF he had actually accomplished anything in his life he would exploit that fact to further flagellate his ego and status on open forums.

No hill for a climber like you!!

Aug ><>

Allan, you make some good points.......That prove my points about the unsafe state of the average Remington. You talk about "gun plumbers". You mention 30 years of "sticky gunk". I don't own a pre-64 model 70 Winchester that is less than 43 years old.........I also don't know how many "gun plumbers" plied their craft on any of them.........They don't go off when releasing the safety, like two of my average Remingtons did when I got them. (I've since adjusted them so they are kinda trustworthy. Still don't trust them like Hot Bore does.) I'm not too articulate, and am just wildly unreasonable, when someone starts making excuses for a poorly designed Remington trigger..........When I acquire my next pre-64 model 70, (which will be number 14,) I will perform neither Allan Test #1, nor Allan Test #2 on it. I will mount a good scope on it, and go hunting.......... When I acquire another Remington Model 700, (it will be in .204 Ruger,) I will very carefully perform lots of Tests on it, after I get it back from a good triggersmith........Let your breath out......This is as good as it gets with me... Grant.

Mr. djpaintles....... Those are just stunningly beautiful rifles..........Thanks for showing them. Grant.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey Malm, Help me out here. We are both old MARINES, so we speak a somewhat similar language.

We do! We definitely have experience with weapons where push feed systems, and designs that can withstand some pretty nasty environments are concerned. Like you, for bolt rifles my personal preference is Remington and composites. Though I harbor no ill feelings towards the other brands, this combination works the best for me. I make my living repairing and improving all of the brands and types and so I come at this with a whole different perspective than most.

I had an ugly incident when I was in the Corps where one of my 20 rounders came apart, spilling all my ammo on the ground and I had to hand feed the shit 1 round at a time directly into the chamber. I walked away from that little "life training excercize" with a deep appreciation for weapons that could function in any position, under any condition without fail by simply throwing a round in the chamber and closing the bolt. And so I have made a choice to stick with the PF design.

I'm sure that if I had been exposed to the CRF design early on in my youth, then perhaps I would have more of a personal liking for them. It doesn't mean they are a bad design, I just prefer the other type.

Augustis: I have owned in excess of 150 Remington bolt action Rifles in my time and fired them far in excess of 200,000 times! I have as yet to experience my FIRST accidental discharge!
Can you quantify exactly how often YOUR Remington bolt action Rifles missfire?
I presently own 34 Remington bolt action Rifles - I fire them often and in ALL kinds of conditions - day and night - heat and cold - rain and snow - sleet and hail, slow fire and rapid fire! I have taken my Remingtons safeties on and off MANY hundreds of thousands of times over the 4+ decades I have been using them - and I am still awaiting my first problem OF ANY KIND, using their "fire control systems"!
Answer me this oohhh sage "Remington whore name caller" after you quantify EXACTLY how often your Remington bolt actions "missfire" - exactly, how do you explain, the splendid and reliable service I get from my Remingtons as compared to your "experiences"!!!???
Are YOU a "whore" for "anyone but Remington"?
Or - do I simply understand my Rifles functioning that much better than you?
Or - do I properly adjust and care for my Remington triggers that much better than you?
Or is there SOME OTHER way you will attempt to "dance around" my factual experiences!
Please do, there Augustis, "substantiate your claims" to us!
And while you are at it be sure NOT TO FORGET to explain my splendid service over a very long time with a SIGNIFICANT sample of Remingtons bolt action Rifles - as compared to your CLAIMS - what ever they are!
I eagerly await your explanation but only expect more infantile name calling and complete lack of quantification and substantiation!
Typical expectations these, of your brand of tripe slingers!
I have quantified my first hand experiences with the Remington bolt actions and their "fire control systems" there Augustis - please answer my inquiries, explicitly!
I am not claiming you are a liar Augustis - I am claiming you are full of bullshit and like to spread it around!
Long live Remington!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy

PM sent.

BTW If the link Malm posted above is the one I am thinking of take a moment to read it also, it contains a few posts I wrote back then to answer a few of your questions initially...

Hot Core and I have a long history together which has spanned the past four or five years and which has nothing to do with anyone else on this forum including you, a history I do not care to discuss really.

It should be readily apparent Hot Core and I do not care for each other and that is that!

As you will notice I have been respectful to everyone else involved in this thread and including the link Malm provided with regard to this discussion.



Aug ><>

Augustis: No thank you - on your E-mail offer!
You have made public aspersions and derisions and I want you to produce your evidence publicly or retract them publicly!
By the way MY E-mail address is up front for everyone to see VarmintGuy@aol.com - you need not send me a PM! Lets compare are "evidence" publicly!
Not caring for folks is one thing deriding a fine and popular product with no solid reason is something else!
Our discussion is not a popularity contest its a discussion. I am not a hermit or a loner. I have lots of friends but I won't let "my " being popular, or not, influence my observations and endorsements.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

P.S.: You think calling folks Remington WHORES is respectful???

P.P.S.: I am awaiting your SPECIFIC answers to my specific inquiries or your retraction!

Also this, to you few Remington naysayers! I am leaving in a few days on a Big Game Hunt! This morning I fired one of my many Remington bolt action Rifles for sight in verification!
I will be using this Rifle on my Hunt - with the utmost in confidence regarding it!
It functioned FLAWLESSLY today - as it has for many years!
For the record its a Remington 700 Classic in 7mm Remington Magnum!
According to my loading log I bought it back in 1980 - no problems so far - which leads me to ask, just exactly WHEN do you Remington naysayers expect it to fall apart???
I realize this is JUST ONE of my many happy experiences with Remington but I must attempt to pin you ne'r do wells down regarding THIS Rifle! How long can I expect this P.O.S. (according to you EXPERTS!) to quit shooting excellent groups!
Quit killing game?
When will it quit going bang when I pull the trigger OR when will it go bang when I don't PULL the trigger!
Come on now cretins, if you have the audacity to make your wild ass claims - back them up!
When will this Rifle quit functioning perfectly?
You can't answer that question can you! I expect its because you are full of innuendo, rumors, misinformation, bull shit and virtually NO practical experience!
Typi'fuckin'cal!
Long live Remington
Collectively - your lame attempts at deriding a fine line of bolt action Rifles by Americas oldest gunmaker are just that - LAME and ineffectual!
MILLIONS of satisfied owners use these arms MILLIONS of times a year and your anti-Remington blather bothers them not one iota!
Long live Remington!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Please lets take this discussion above KINDERGARDEN level

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by jørgen:

There is no doubt that belted cases has a higher safetylevel, according to case buttom rupture, than non belted.



This just isn't true. A properly manufactured non-belted case is just as strong or stronger in the web as a belted case. Belted cases are particularly vunerable to case head separations directly in front of the belt.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by jørgen:

There is no doubt that belted cases has a higher safetylevel, according to case buttom rupture, than non belted.



This just isn't true. A properly manufactured non-belted case is just as strong or stronger in the web as a belted case. Belted cases are particularly vunerable to case head separations directly in front of the belt.

A little facts:
The belted cases ads more materiak around tre primerpocket, compared to a non belted.
This makes the belted capable to withstand 20-30% higher presure compared to nonbelted, before the casehead punctures. Unless properly supported by the bolt face scrout.

To understand the nature of the casehead seperation due to many times reloading.
1 The fieringpinn and plunger pushes case forvard in chamber, until it stops by the headspace stop (belted= the belt. Non belted, the shoulder).
2 The primer tryes to pop out, until stopped by boltface
3 A: Nonbelted: case expands, and locks to chamberwall, next preasure rises and the case stredges just ahead of the casehead, until the casehead is stopped by boltface. (the stredging is concentrating apx1/4" from the buttom, causing thinner wallthickness)
3 B: The belted is stopped by the mutch more precice headspacing Belt, then you have the intire wall length to absorb the stredging, before the shoulder reaches the front of the chamber. leaving very little stretching to the critical area, ahead of the buttom.

When resizing Belted magnums it is advisable not to set the shoulders unnesecary back

I remember now why I don't partake much of all this any more....

Paul from NZ if you pm me your email address I will send you some photos of my M700 project.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey Paul, That is something I've not heard about the Kimbers. Had no idea. Generally the only thing I see is praise. Perhaps I need to look a bit closer at "who" is bragging on those rags.

the barrel is getting better, but id expect a higher quality for a more expensive rifle. still doesnt get the desired accuracy with a lot of loads being over and inch. have had a couple of groups at half and one at .3 inch. but normally around and inch if not more.I shoot off sand bags and its pretty pretty good, had the trigger lightened because it was a bit heavy for my liking. we even managed to change the mounts on it! to a weaver style, which have been loc-tited on there (atleast I think thats what they used) and im using a leupold VX3. talked to a guy who i get my reloading gear off and he does test shooting for other people and works loads up for them and he said he had never got one to shoot decent groups all the time, although in a hunting mag a guy was getting around half inch reguarly with reloaded stuff.

Needless to say im not really that impressed with it! being outshot by a marlin MR7 25-06 with a tasco scope on it, thats not beded but has been free floated.

the fact it wont shoot is a reason im considering going to the remmy m700. although it seems a few people arnt fond of the triggers on them, but sounds more like incorrect adjustment and care.

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
Please lets take this discussion above KINDERGARDEN level

I'd have to agree with that one.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul from nz:

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
Please lets take this discussion above KINDERGARDEN level

I'd have to agree with that one.

I agree too but from what I've read on the gunsmithing forum several of the posters are still in Kindergarten so it gets tough to accomplish it.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul from nz:
...im using a leupold VX3....

Hey Paul, What power scope?