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Sako 75 -- can you believe this???!!!!! *UPDATE*
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The service I got at Kimber took four days total. This included a new stock on one rifle and changing the safeties on two of them.


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Posts: 5543 | Registered: 09 December 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Savage99:
The service I got at Kimber took four days total. This included a new stock on one rifle and changing the safeties on two of them.
That is good.
 
Posts: 475 | Location: Oklahoma City | Registered: 15 March 2003Reply With Quote
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JSG, Well I'm glad that it all worked out for you and they satisfied you. Jim


99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name.

"O" = zero



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Posts: 730 | Location: Prescott, AZ | Registered: 07 February 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim White:
JSG, Well I'm glad that it all worked out for you and they satisfied you. Jim
Yes, Jimmy, it was good for me. Was it good for you?
 
Posts: 475 | Location: Oklahoma City | Registered: 15 March 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Just Some Guy:
I bought a NEW Sako 75 LH Hunter the other day and guess what? THE FRIGGIN' STOCK HAS A CRACK IN IT!!!!! This is a brand-new rifle, in the factory packaging, and there's a MOTHER F'N CRACK IN THE FOREND!!!!! I could MAYBE swallow this a little easier if it were a USED gun, or even a new gun that was around half the price of a Sako.

Off it goes to Beretta sometime later today.



Sorry to hear that.. have it shipped UPS did ya?
jeffe


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40081 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
quote:
Originally posted by Just Some Guy:
I bought a NEW Sako 75 LH Hunter the other day and guess what? THE FRIGGIN' STOCK HAS A CRACK IN IT!!!!! This is a brand-new rifle, in the factory packaging, and there's a MOTHER F'N CRACK IN THE FOREND!!!!! I could MAYBE swallow this a little easier if it were a USED gun, or even a new gun that was around half the price of a Sako.

Off it goes to Beretta sometime later today.



Sorry to hear that.. have it shipped UPS did ya?
jeffe
Can't read, can ya? I don't ship UPS. Do you?

Way to follow the conversation, sport. The original post was made nearly two months ago.
 
Posts: 475 | Location: Oklahoma City | Registered: 15 March 2003Reply With Quote
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I hope the delay was due to going out in the back forty and cutting a tree to make a nice wet, green stock just for you.


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Posts: 6205 | Location: Cascade, MT | Registered: 12 February 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by dempsey:
I hope the delay was due to going out in the back forty and cutting a tree to make a nice wet, green stock just for you.
I'm sure it was. Roll Eyes
 
Posts: 475 | Location: Oklahoma City | Registered: 15 March 2003Reply With Quote
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A year or so ago, I was examining a NEW Winchester M94 in .444 Marlin caliber with a synthetic stock & forend. There was a gap "big enough to swing a cat in" between the edge of the sides of the buttstock tang and the edge of the receiver-at least 1/16" or more, on both sides. They wanted over $400.00 for this piece of crap!


"Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen."
 
Posts: 4386 | Location: New Woodstock, Madison County, Central NY | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Just Some Guy:
That's pretty out there.

My dad told a pretty good one about someone he knew back in the '60s. A guy bought a new Model 70 around 1961 or so in .308 WCF and couldn't get it to shoot worth a damn. The bullets kept keyholing regardless of load. Finally he took it to the store where he bought it. Turned out that the barrel was actually a .358 WCF, but was marked .308 along with the box and literature that came with it. You'd think SOMEONE, including the owner, would've caught that. FYI, I believe the shop that sold the gun was the original Mashburn Arms of Oklahoma City.


I'll bet a Model 70 collector would pay a pretty penny for a pre-64 in .358 that was factory-marked as .308. (I'd also think the buyer would have noticed something funny about that ".308" hole that was actually .358".....)


"Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen."
 
Posts: 4386 | Location: New Woodstock, Madison County, Central NY | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Just Some Guy:
[Can't read, can ya? I don't ship UPS. Do you?

Way to follow the conversation, sport. The original post was made nearly two months ago.



Hey Newbie,
in fact, i can read.. you have posted that you send ammo WITH guns... your LEGAL choices are UPS and FEDEX, your shipping agreement prohibits this.

In fact, you posted, bragging, that you shipped class3 stuff weekly...


hmmm, yet your post starts with ANOTHER FFL receiving this broken stock for you.


SO, yeah, "sport" I can read, you are either ONE publicly stating that you are violating USPS shipping regs (which is LAW) or TWO that you are using a contract carrier..


Since you so vehemently defended UPS, I think that leads anyone to believe you might just use them.


2 months ago? LMAO.. does that somehow change that the rifle was shipped and you received it broken...

Facts, boyo, facts.. just stick to facts

jeffe


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40081 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
In fact, you posted, bragging, that you shipped class3 stuff weekly...
And your point is what? I am within my legal rights to do so.


quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
hmmm, yet your post starts with ANOTHER FFL receiving this broken stock for you.
And your point is what?


quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
SO, yeah, "sport" I can read, you are either ONE publicly stating that you are violating USPS shipping regs (which is LAW) or TWO that you are using a contract carrier..
Uh, no, you're not reading anything, Jeffie Boy. Shipping a long gun via the USPS is perfectly legal for an unlicensed individual. 99.999% of all manufacturers use contract carriers for the return. You're once again using some psychobabble circular logic nonsense to explain your position, namely if a POSTAL SERVICE regulation exists, that it must also apply to UPS, Federal Express, and DHL and that shipping contracts between private companies and individuals are akin to federal law. You got your ass beat over this once before, just let me know if you want to go another round, Jeffie.


quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Since you so vehemently defended UPS, I think that leads anyone to believe you might just use them.
Please provide evidence of my defending UPS. Dumbass.


quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Facts, boyo, facts.. just stick to facts

jeffe
Anytime you're ready to present some, you just let me know, Jeffie Boy.
 
Posts: 475 | Location: Oklahoma City | Registered: 15 March 2003Reply With Quote
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justsomeguy,

Don't abuse the moderators.

George


 
Posts: 14623 | Location: San Antonio, TX | Registered: 22 May 2001Reply With Quote
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JSG,
just replying to your post, not attacking you.. .figured giving in the spirit given was just being polite.

sorry you had a problem.. hope it's worked out to your satisfaction... i did note that your where more than a little annoyed that a shipping problem had happened to YOU


oh well, it is what it is

jeffe


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40081 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by GeorgeS:
justsomeguy,

Don't abuse the moderators.

George
George,

Don't abuse me.

Just Some Guy
 
Posts: 475 | Location: Oklahoma City | Registered: 15 March 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
JSG,
just replying to your post, not attacking you.. .figured giving in the spirit given was just being polite.

sorry you had a problem.. hope it's worked out to your satisfaction... i did note that your where more than a little annoyed that a shipping problem had happened to YOU


oh well, it is what it is

jeffe
Perhaps you should read the thread, engage your brain to your typing finger, and THEN reply.

It was not a shipping problem. Beretta USA and I resolved it to everyone's satisfaction. I decided to post a followup. You were certainly under no obligation to read or reply.
 
Posts: 475 | Location: Oklahoma City | Registered: 15 March 2003Reply With Quote
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Okay.. it's not a shipping problem.. now it's a QC problem..
okay...

you are write, no oligation to read or reply... funny how that's a 2 way street


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40081 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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homer


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 42226 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Okay.. it's not a shipping problem.. now it's a QC problem..
okay...
I think that's what was stated earlier, MUCH earlier. Hence Beretta USA handling the problem as a warranty item and even reimbursing my shipping costs, vice advising me to submit a claim with the shipper in question. DUHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Posts: 475 | Location: Oklahoma City | Registered: 15 March 2003Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Just Some Guy:
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Okay.. it's not a shipping problem.. now it's a QC problem..
okay...
I think that's what was stated earlier, MUCH earlier. Hence Beretta USA handling the problem as a warranty item and even reimbursing my shipping costs, vice advising me to submit a claim with the shipper in question. DUHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!



hmm, now it's beretta saying get with the shipper?

hmmm......

remember, your call if you want to read or reply

jeffe


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40081 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Just Some Guy:
quote:
Originally posted by GeorgeS:
justsomeguy,

Don't abuse the moderators.

George
George,

Don't abuse me.

Just Some Guy


You seem to be the one with a chip on his shoulder.
In this
thread, you accuse another Member of all sorts of lying and behavior you are now guilty of, i.e., starting a thread for the purposes of a hysterical rant.

The pot calling the kettle black?

George


 
Posts: 14623 | Location: San Antonio, TX | Registered: 22 May 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
hmm, now it's beretta saying get with the shipper?
Where is that stated, Jeffie Boy? You're really digging there.
 
Posts: 475 | Location: Oklahoma City | Registered: 15 March 2003Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by GeorgeS:
quote:
Originally posted by Just Some Guy:
quote:
Originally posted by GeorgeS:
justsomeguy,

Don't abuse the moderators.

George
George,

Don't abuse me.

Just Some Guy


You seem to be the one with a chip on his shoulder.
I this
thread, you accuse another Member of all sorts of lying and behavior you are now guilty of, i.e., starting a thread for the purposes of a hysterical rant.

The pot calling the kettle back?

George
Not at all, George. Go back and read, R-E-A-D THIS thread. It was not started for the purposes of an "hysterical rant."

If the thread you referenced was a true story -- and it's not -- the thread starter should have no problem providing some details. Guess what? HE COULDN'T.

Nowhere did I "rant" about Sako or Beretta USA. If you disagree, please provide an example.

There seems to be a LOT of other people ranting that I may have attempted to sully a gun maker's reputation, but once again, lying liars can't quite sell their bill of goods in the end.
 
Posts: 475 | Location: Oklahoma City | Registered: 15 March 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of jeffeosso
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Just Some Guy:
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
hmm, now it's beretta saying get with the shipper?
Where is that stated, Jeffie Boy? You're really digging there.



nah, newbie...
just pointing out that your initial rant and story are starting to drift...

i just read this thread, too
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/435107802/p/1

interesting read.. that YOU go on "full attack" on a person that you infer is "a liar"

Interesting read...

of course, you can read or not.. your call

jeffe


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40081 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
It was not started for the purposes of an "hysterical rant."


Nowhere did I "rant" about Sako or Beretta USA. If you disagree, please provide an example.




Newbie,
If this aint ranting, then nothing is

quote:
Originally posted by Just Some Guy:
I bought a NEW Sako 75 LH Hunter the other day and guess what? THE FRIGGIN' STOCK HAS A CRACK IN IT!!!!! This is a brand-new rifle, in the factory packaging, and there's a MOTHER F'N CRACK IN THE FOREND!!!!! I could MAYBE swallow this a little easier if it were a USED gun, or even a new gun that was around half the price of a Sako.

Off it goes to Beretta sometime later today.



just to get the facts straight

jeffe


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40081 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
My dad told a pretty good one about someone he knew back in the '60s. A guy bought a new Model 70 around 1961 or so in .308 WCF and couldn't get it to shoot worth a damn. The bullets kept keyholing regardless of load. Finally he took it to the store where he bought it. Turned out that the barrel was actually a .358 WCF, but was marked .308 along with the box and literature that came with it. You'd think SOMEONE, including the owner, would've caught that. FYI, I believe the shop that sold the gun was the original Mashburn Arms of Oklahoma City.


Something is not quite right here.

One round of 308 fired in a 358 chamber would have been enough to tell the shooter he had the wrong ammo.

Why the hell did he try shooting more?

In my own experience, Sako rifles beat all other manufacturers for producing consistanly good rifles.

And I have absolutely no interest in Sako or Beretta.

I just like well made rifles, and Sakos are among the best.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 69287 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
just pointing out that your initial rant and story are starting to drift...
Again, please provide an example of this occurring, Little Miss Jeffie.
 
Posts: 475 | Location: Oklahoma City | Registered: 15 March 2003Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
If this aint ranting, then nothing is

quote:
Originally posted by Just Some Guy:
I bought a NEW Sako 75 LH Hunter the other day and guess what? THE FRIGGIN' STOCK HAS A CRACK IN IT!!!!! This is a brand-new rifle, in the factory packaging, and there's a MOTHER F'N CRACK IN THE FOREND!!!!! I could MAYBE swallow this a little easier if it were a USED gun, or even a new gun that was around half the price of a Sako.

Off it goes to Beretta sometime later today.



just to get the facts straight

jeffe
Again, Little Miss Jeffie, please present some facts.

I'm quite sorry you're an illiterate piece of horse dung.

I'm quite sorry you've chosen to "find" hidden meanings in some rather straightforward statements.

It all makes me wish, Little Miss Jeffie, that more people didn't get sterilized. Namely your folks.
 
Posts: 475 | Location: Oklahoma City | Registered: 15 March 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
My dad told a pretty good one about someone he knew back in the '60s. A guy bought a new Model 70 around 1961 or so in .308 WCF and couldn't get it to shoot worth a damn. The bullets kept keyholing regardless of load. Finally he took it to the store where he bought it. Turned out that the barrel was actually a .358 WCF, but was marked .308 along with the box and literature that came with it. You'd think SOMEONE, including the owner, would've caught that. FYI, I believe the shop that sold the gun was the original Mashburn Arms of Oklahoma City.


Something is not quite right here.

One round of 308 fired in a 358 chamber would have been enough to tell the shooter he had the wrong ammo.

Why the hell did he try shooting more?

In my own experience, Sako rifles beat all other manufacturers for producing consistanly good rifles.

And I have absolutely no interest in Sako or Beretta.

I just like well made rifles, and Sakos are among the best.
The story sounds crazy to me, too, but I've seen and heard of people doing crazier things with guns. For me, I would've caught the oversize bore right off the bat, before a round was ever chambered. It's not like the two were as close in diameter as a .270 and a .280.
 
Posts: 475 | Location: Oklahoma City | Registered: 15 March 2003Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Just Some Guy:
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
just pointing out that your initial rant and story are starting to drift...
Again, please provide an example of this occurring, Little Miss Jeffie.


hmmm, (rereading your original rant)...

well, you know, if you don't think that's a rant, that tells use quite a lot.

first you say it's a new gun shipped to you, then YOU say it's a QC issue with the company, then company tells YOU to go get your shippign money from the shipping company, and your story starts to drift...

Sorry, man.. .starts to look loads like your thread on the fella with the ruger.

jeffe

you know, to be ranked low in this guys estimation is some how comforting and complimentary


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40081 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
hmmm, (rereading your original rant)...

well, you know, if you don't think that's a rant, that tells use quite a lot.

jeffe
Come on, Little Miss Jeffie, 'cipher the words. You can do it. It might take you awhile (it's already been over two months).
 
Posts: 475 | Location: Oklahoma City | Registered: 15 March 2003Reply With Quote
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Robert, aka JSG, Have you ever considered a personality transplant?


______________________
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Posts: 6205 | Location: Cascade, MT | Registered: 12 February 2002Reply With Quote
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I guess what JSG and others are trying to say is: Maybe we expect to get more for our money when we order something. Considering the firearms prices and the "every year rises" we expect more. When we get an order and there is a definite problem it pisses us off. Usually[?] customer service is pretty good. NOT ALWAYS but usually. A lot depends on how the initial contact goes. I picked up a Win 223 WSSM in one of the plastic stocks and called Winchester to see if there was a nicer replacement I could order. I was told to send the rifle [complete]back with a check/MO for 350.00 and they would install a new stock. I had been VERY polite up til then. I told them I just wanted to order a replacement stock and that I was perfectly capable of removing/replacing three screws and the $$%^^&asshole hung up on me. Oh Well HUH? Maybe I`ll find one on EBay or someplace.

Aloha, Mark


When the fear of death is no longer a concern----the Rules of War change!!
 
Posts: 978 | Location: S Oregon | Registered: 06 March 2004Reply With Quote
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This is the best thread ever. Keep at it JSG and Jeffe!


--->Happiness is nothing but health and a poor memory<---Albert Schweitzer
--->All I ever wanted was to be somebody; I guess I should have been more specific<---Lily Tomlin
 
Posts: 435 | Registered: 09 February 2005Reply With Quote
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newbie,
you ever get with that shipper and get your money back, as the maker says it's a shipping problem?

your story still changing with the wind?

jeffe


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40081 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
newbie,
you ever get with that shipper and get your money back, as the maker says it's a shipping problem?

your story still changing with the wind?

jeffe
Little Miss Jeffie,
My story has remained rather consistent, dickhead. Here's a tip: pull your head out of your ass and read it. For a change.

Until your next moment of "brilliance."
 
Posts: 475 | Location: Oklahoma City | Registered: 15 March 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Bohica:
I guess what JSG and others are trying to say is: Maybe we expect to get more for our money when we order something. Considering the firearms prices and the "every year rises" we expect more. When we get an order and there is a definite problem it pisses us off. Usually[?] customer service is pretty good. NOT ALWAYS but usually. A lot depends on how the initial contact goes. I picked up a Win 223 WSSM in one of the plastic stocks and called Winchester to see if there was a nicer replacement I could order. I was told to send the rifle [complete]back with a check/MO for 350.00 and they would install a new stock. I had been VERY polite up til then. I told them I just wanted to order a replacement stock and that I was perfectly capable of removing/replacing three screws and the $$%^^&asshole hung up on me. Oh Well HUH? Maybe I`ll find one on EBay or someplace.

Aloha, Mark
When it was all said and done, Beretta USA did what they were supposed to do. Having previously dealt with Browning's and Winchester/USRA's service department, I was a little cynical when I had to contact Beretta. No complaints here.
 
Posts: 475 | Location: Oklahoma City | Registered: 15 March 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of jeffeosso
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Just Some Guy:
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
newbie,
you ever get with that shipper and get your money back, as the maker says it's a shipping problem?

your story still changing with the wind?

jeffe
Little Miss Jeffie,
My story has remained rather consistent, dickhead. Here's a tip: pull your head out of your ass and read it. For a change.

Until your next moment of "brilliance."


Sorry, Bobbie...
i guess if you consider your original post on this to NOT be a rant, i can see where you think your story has NOT changed...


So, when the fellas with white coats come to fit you for yours "long sleeve jacket" make sure you ask for extra long !!!

hmm, i wonder if that padded cell has an internet connection... scott's seems to

jeffe


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40081 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
i guess if you consider your original post on this to NOT be a rant, i can see where you think your story has NOT changed...
Little Miss Jeffie,
Show me where things have changed. What facts have changed? Let me spell it out for you:

  • I bought a Sako 75 LH
  • The stock had a crack near the tip of the forend
  • The box and other contents had no damage
  • I called Beretta USA
  • I spent several minutes on hold
  • The Beretta USA representative advised me to send in the gun as they could replace the stock, no problem
  • The Beretta USA representative also advised that my hardcase would be returned
  • The Beretta USA representative also advised that I would be reimbursed for my shipping costs since this was a NEW gun
  • I sent the gun on 2-14-05
  • I received the gun after it was repaired on 4-6-05
  • I also received my hardcase
  • I spoke with Carlton at Beretta USA about the reimbursement and faxed in my receipts
  • Carlton called me back on 4-7-05 and stated that the receipts had been received and that a reimbursement check had been approved for the full amount and was being processed
Those are the facts, Little Miss Jeffie. Come on, try hard to understand them, numbnuts.
 
Posts: 475 | Location: Oklahoma City | Registered: 15 March 2003Reply With Quote
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Tucker, With all the bullshit you have going on at your website, how do you find the time to infect this one?


99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name.

"O" = zero



NRA life member
 
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