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One thing I have learned in my time in D'Arcy's shop is that testing is of the utmost importance. It puts a fellow in a different mindset when he realizes the rifle he is creating is the only physical connection the client will have with what could be the trophy of his/her lifetime, or the cause of their immediate death. The testing that D'Arcy does is a culmination of years of personal experience hunting and guiding and also seeing rifles he built work (and not work) in the field. The Legend rifles have been a treasure trove of data as these rifles are seeing much more use than a Classic woodstocked rifle. Much of what we do to both Legends and Classics to make them work better D'Arcy learned from examining Legends that had seen a lot of good honest use. It all begins with the receiver which is gone over with precision measuring equipment to determine if it is sound. Some are crooked and some have their holes drilled off angle. Most can be fixed. Numerous steps are taken to true the action with the bore. The bolt face and lugs are recut. The receiver ring and rear bridge are surface ground in preparation for the custom scope mounts. The trigger and safety are rebuilt for a crisp safe pull. The barrel is threaded and chambered to the specified cartridge and then is fitted to the action. The custom mounts are fit to the action. Then everything comes to a screeching halt and the barreled action is bedded into a dedicated test stock. A test scope of known accuracy is mounted and the rifle is taken to the range for barrel break-in and preliminary accuracy testing with precision hand loads and factory ammo. This is the time to find out if there are barrel problems, before any more precious time is taken up with metal work, stock work or bluing. If the accuracy is up to snuff then the barreled action is pulled from the test stock and the rest of the feeding work and hand polishing is completed. The feeding is checked with a cross section of handloads with the client's bullets and cases of choice and selected factory loads, NOT empty cases (D'Arcy is of the notion that few if any animals are killed with empty cases, other than ones by some sweaty pith-helmeted fellow rolling around on his living room floor firing empties at a charging buff in a Mark Sullivan video.) The barreled action is bedded into its stock and then is sent to be blued. When it returns it is assembled and the client's scope is mounted and then the real work starts. Loads are worked up using semi-benchrest standards and a variety of factory loads are obtained. Then the shooting begins. Loads are tweaked and numerous trips are made back and forth to the range till the accuracy potential of the rifle/scope combination is fullfilled to the best of our ability. The data is compiled and kept in the client's file. This is also the time when optics problems rear their ugly head as I found out while shooting a .458 Lott. The rifle wore a Zeiss Diavari 1.5-6. I had just shot a good 3 shot group and was feeling smug. My next group was about 2.5x the size of the first and doubts about my shooting ability (or the ability to go the distance with 500 gr. bullets at 2300 fps) began to rise. With the next shot the scopes image went blurry and the bottom and right hand reticles were visibly discombobulated. That scope got sent back to Zeiss, a back-up was mounted and the client was back in business (and ready for his August hunt in Tanzania). Better to have a scope go tits up at the range in Logan, UT than in some brush patch facing down a buffalo in Tanzania. Brian Bingham (XL- is my cattle brand) | ||
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it's worth mentioning as well that when the client gets delivery of the rifle he not only gets the good test targets showing the small groups but the targets showing the bad groups as well. I couldn't be a gunsmith just because I don't shoot good enough to test the guns!  Thank you very much for the information and details. Always very interesting to hear this in more depth. Red | |||
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Echols doesn't do his own bluing? -Spencer | |||
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Shop, no. I think the way it worked out after he perfected his bluing technique he decided that it wasn't really viable for him to spend the time doing the bluing that he needed to be machining and the rest of the build process. Better to have a dedicated bluer doing it all. He had different bluers work on samples of steel, I believe barrel section or something. Then he subjected them to a variety of tests and he now has the bluing done by one of the top two in the results. He posted about it here one time, the testing that he did. Results showed hot blue to be more durable than the rust blue, caused quite a stink at the time he posted it if I remember correctly.  Red | |||
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Oh Oh Oh, we shouldn't discuss the ECHOLS rifles because WE ALL KNOW that they cost more than anyone should spend for a hunting rifle and those who buy/use them are just strutting alpha males. Of course, the opinions of guys like professional Alaska guide Phil Shoemaker and gun writer John Barness who have actually USED these rifles in various hunting endeavours, including dealing with dangerous game, don't mean squat.....there are REAL experts here who tell us different....... Oops, I almost forgot, Allen Day doesn't know what he is talking about, either, the only way to develope a real expert's opinion is to steadfastly avoid posting one's own hunting experience, while claiming lots of it............ | |||
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XL, thanks for the info and insight. Some day when I'm rich and ostentacious...  If yuro'e corseseyd and dsyelixc can you siltl raed oaky? | |||
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Hopefully, DD, you will become rich, but, never ostentatious; in any case, I doubt that a plain, black, synthetic-stocked rifle would be considered ostentatious by the etiquette police. However, boasting about one's hunting experience without providing details certainly would be, IMHO of course. | |||
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Brian, Excellent article and thanks for posting it. OF course as an old operational tester I immediately wondered what the failure rates are at the various stages? Can you illuminate? I have talked to D'Arcy about building a Legend, and I am working on the Gun Fund now.  thanks...jim if you're too busy to hunt,you're too busy. | |||
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Brian, While you are obviously much more advanced help then I was, it's good to hear from someone with similar stories. Enjoy it while you can. Have the old guys at the range come up to you while you are shooting and offered advice or shaken their heads yet? That was one of my favorites. | |||
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About the only thing I disagree on is the validity of the opinion of a rifle based upon the target it was shot at when the opinion is not about exteme accuracy. In other words, I don't think it makes much difference if a guy uses a Legend to shoot at a Water Buffalo or a Whitetail deer as in either case the target itself would not cause a failure to happen. I know a few guys who have purchased "dangerous game" rifles. I think they could just as easily be called "tested to be reliable rifles". What floors me is the flimsy cars these guys sometimes drive. I often wonder what the rifle failure rate for all dangerous game hunting per year is compared to some measure of how dangerous it is to drive a car on American Highways these days. I am told that cars could be made a whole lot safer but that the public won't pay for them and won't accept the "driving discomfort" that comes along with it. But people will pay thousands more for a dangerous game rifle. That is definitely not to say that I wouldn't mind having an Echols Rifle becasue of the quality work that goes into them and becasue they will more than likely hold their value as time goes by. Pride of ownership can come from many different reasons. Great Post XL Bar. I agree with Allen. Maybe a whole series of Articles for Rifle Magazine would really be interesting to read. | |||
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Yes, they would be a good read. | |||
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Bart: Oh yes, I've had several guys at the range ask me "What kind of stock is that? A test stock?? Why would you have a test stock?" or "What is that thing?", "A Model 70 in .300 Weatherby," I reply. "Is that a Weatherby barrel?" he asked. "Yes", I answer. I saw some of the groups you shot when you were working for D'Arcy. Nice work. I think I might need you to come back to Logan to give me some remedial shooting training. My family and I might be through your town on our way back to Colorado from Montana. We were there in the spring and really liked the area. Brian Bingham | |||
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It has been interesting to read about your experience at D'Arcy's. My respect for the work he and his crew does rises with every post like this one. Shooting guns in the white to debug them before the final touches are put on, makes a lot of sense, in particular if you are looking to build a working rifle as opposed to a showpiece. These truely are "best quality" products, and surely one of the best options if you were looking for the ultimate working rifle - price being no objection. Naturally, it is just fine to go hunting with "lesser" rifles, but the attention to detail D'Arcy puts into his work is surely commendable, and puts his work into a class of its own. - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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First, and I don't mean any offense, please learn how to use paragraphs. It is painful to read that densely compacted stuff. Second, here's the secret within the secret: No one has to spend $10,000 to get an EXCELLENT and 100% RELIABLE and ACCURATE and, BTW, BEAUTIFUL, dangerous game rifle. They can be had for, at most, one third that amount. Not to knock too hard Mr. Echols's fine work, which is akin to what the Medicis paid Michelangelo to do. But I ain't no Medici, and as far as I'm concerned, it ain't about obsessive compulsive, and exorbitantly expensive, BTW, mumbo jumbo that only a properly, and ritually circumcised and fire-hardened, witch-doctor can manage to wreak out of wood (excuse me, plastic) and steel. Rather, it's about getting what is needed for what can and SHOULD be spent to get it. I could recommend many makers of custom and semi-custom rifles whose wares would satisfy anyone on earth, and that would not require a second mortgage to finance. But for those interested, a Google search of the term "dangerous game rifle" would suffice to turn up many good candidates. But, if your tastes do run to the ostentatious, and the conspicuously consumptitious, then, as the robber-baron said to the flapper, spend it if you got it. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I concur. No disrespect of Mr. Echols intended, but these rifles are grossly over-priced. Run the numbers: you can commission, from any of a dozen equally skilled and qualified 'smiths, an equivalent rifle [same components---Winchester, Krieger, McMillan, Talley---same level of precision and attention to detail] for $2,000-$3,000. P.T. Barnum said it best "No one ever went broke underestimating the stupidity of the American people". Jordan | |||
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Excuse me mrlexma, I do take exception to your monitary evaluation of Mr. Echols work. What I know for a fact, having been in the trade for 30 years, is that every dollar spent represents an equal amount of time invested in the end result. If that is not your choice, that's fine, you don't get one. For those that do, they are the recipient of decades of experience, expertice and the dedication of one person's life work. This simply can't be had for fewer dollars. I'm no fan of plastic stocked rifles, don't own one-never would, but I am more than aware of the bench hours. I'm sure that Mr. Echols has more than enough clients who appreciate the number of hours he spends constructing his product. When one considers the background required to accomplish these tasks, in the larger picture they are a bargain. This open forum allows anyone to respond and, as they say, everyone has an opinion. Mine is: If a client wants performance, then he must find someone who has what it takes to deliver ultimate performance in a meticulously crafted rifle. And someone who takes the time to thoroughly test the rifle for function and accuracy before delivery. If it comes any cheaper, the client is likely to find out why, on his own time. SDH ACGG Life Member, since 1985 | |||
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And Jordan, If you really believe you can get an equivalant rifle for $2-3000, you're one of PT's best. You will never know the difference. SDH ACGG Life Member, since 1985 | |||
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I think this is a real haughty or at least narrow minded opinion
Who are you to say what should be spent? My friend's neighbor has a Cobra, two new trucks and some other custom car in his garage, he has the money he should spend it on whatever he damn well pleases. Connecticut Shotguns had the prettiest in my opinion guns at SCI this year, would I spend 50k on a shotgun if I had the money, no. but if somebody else wants one then they SHOULD buy one. There is a problem in the gunsmithing community, actually there are a lot of problems, but let me give you two big glaring ones that cause posts like this. 1. Any screwdriver spinning, mill owning kitchen table bench guy can call himself a gunsmith. not that there aren't some well trained high quality guys that learned it on their own, but there are no standards maintained across the board. Thus I could start charging 20 bucks for a drill and tap on a rifle and good job or bad that is what people start thinking the rate should be. 2. The good gunsmiths, the ones that have dedicated a great deal of time to learning to do it, have gotten to the point where they can dot he important things from scratch, manufacture custom sights, bases, rings etc. then feel pressure to compete at that level, the level where they will get the steady work that enables them to do the higher end custom jobs, and so they price their work UNDER what it actually costs them. Thus they end up going under or do it just in their spare time. I got some good advice from a young gunmaker at the ACGG show, he said if you (me) start gunsmithing charge what the work is worth, because the guys that don't hurt the whole trade. Guys like D'Arcy are not trying to gouge you, they are not trying to make a fortune by artificially inflating the value of their work or marking up way over what they put into it. I would be that in the end D'Arcy makes less money net than I do, and works much harder to get it (although doing something he likes much better ) He has to factor in not only material costs, wear and tear on the machines, insurance, utilities, employee costs but also development and testing which both cost money too. and trust me, D'Arcy does a lot of development, I got to talk to him for a few minutes and could tell that when he focuses on something that he wants better on a rifle he hits it from every angle till it meets his standards.If XL was to itemize for us, which I am not asking him to do, everything that goes into an Echols rifle we could put two and two together and see what the related hours going into it are. Why does a double cost so much? because of hundreds of hours of work. A great rifle can be had for under 7k. I don't think anybody on the forums has said that isn't possible. And a totally reliable rifle at that. Why when somebody does say that a particular rifle at whatever the price point beyond what most of us can afford, IS worth the money or IS 100% ready for anything do so many people get their panties twisted up so bad? XL, sorry that the good thread has been pissed on by us bringing every thing that is debated about this over from the other threads. Please post more any time you want. any format you put it in I'll read it (I will admit though that all caps would drive me crazy )Red | |||
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I would submit that only if you did a good job....would people start thinking the rate should be as you charged. Do a bad job and you definitely over-charged. If your botched job is corrected by a competent smith.....and at a higher rate.....you still over-charged, but were below what another competent smith was. And that's not to say that the smith who corrected your work is charging a reasonable rate. He did a competent job at his rate. Someone else might do equivalent work cheaper.
I'm not sure you've identified a problem in a market economy. Are you suggesting there should be a union and a scale for gunsmith work?
For whom is that good advice? The consumer? Or the trade?
D'Arcy also made a conscious decision to enter the trade and perfect his service-segment of the profession. By all accounts he has created and nurtured the market he serves. Nothing un-American about that.
Perhaps for a lot less even.
I don't think it's a "twisted panties" syndrome. The benefits derived from these costly exercises are so intangible at times, they are never adequately quantified. You can't get or give "meantime to failure" statistics on a $1000 gun vs. a $3000 gun vs. a $10,000 gun. "It functions flawlessly and will last a lifetime" is a statement uttered by purchasers of $1500 guns, and likely used in the marketing literature of those guns. What the issue typically boils down to is..."I think this is the best, and I want the best." And then it also typically elevates to....."I can afford the best, and you can't, so any further questioning of my purchase is merely your petty jealousy." I think SDH's previous comment (although perhaps from a different perspective) is absolutely true. A vast majority will never know the difference. GV | |||
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Any chance of some close up photos of the Echolls mounts? | |||
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Are Mr. Echol's rifle's worth the money? Yes. Is that level of craftsmanship and perfectionism needed to have a reliable hunting rifle? No. Bottom line... when you buy an Echol's rifle you're buying a master craftsman's uncompromising vision of what a rifle should be. That vision requires many more hours of labor than an "average custom" rifle and, while I don't believe much of it is necessary, it is ultimately for those that cannot live without every stone perfectly turned over, every possible imperfection corrected and every pitfall anticipated and overcome. An Echols comes down to a multitude of details agonized over by a highly skilled and focused perfectionist. | |||
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Brad, well said. SDH, well said. Follow D'Arcy around in his shop for a while. It's an eye opener. Actually just taking a look inside that shop is an eye opener. Chuck | |||
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I think that, if a person chooses to criticise another poster's writing, he should learn to spell first. I find those who continually denigrate other posters personal attributes or rifle choices to be pompous and not very credible, jealousy is a pathetic emotion. Brad, very well said, you "nailed it"! | |||
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Something (anything) is “worth†whatever someone is willing to pay for it...and obviously, Mr. Echols has a loyal clientele that feels they are getting their monies worth. If you think his rifles are overpriced, don’t buy one...that’s pretty simple isn’t it? I would be interested to see what the average hourly breakdown on one of his rifles comes out to. I’ll bet that he isn’t putting as much money into his pocket off each rifle as one might think at first glance. | |||
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One of my rifle and hunting mentors literally owned a wall-to-wall collection of fine custom rifles and shotguns, and this collection contained specimens from the shops of scores of fine craftsmen, from Tom Shellhammer and Monty Kennedy to Holland & Holland and Purdey. I spent hours and hours over the course of many years studying those guns, and it was like taking a graduate course at a small private university with a top professor right by your side every step of the way. This was pretty heady stuff for a twenty-something farm boy who just finished school and who couldn't afford much of anything, let alone fine custom rifles. One time I asked this gentleman why he spent the money he did on his superb Al Biesen 300 H&H and 375 H&H, plus another Biesen custom job in 458 Win. Mag. -- rifles that he preferred to hunt African with. His answer, which I've never forgotten: "It's a matter of your money or your life........your money or your life. Take your pick!" And over the course of years and much hunting, including a rifle muckup in the face of dangerous game, I know EXACTLY where this man was coming from, and to this day I owe him a debt I'll never be able to repay. He cut my learning curve down by at least 500%, and he saved me untold amounts of money. His logic was correct, and 100%-reliable rifles transend price, especially since a great rifle or set of rifles will last for generations. And with the price of quality hunting being what it is today, that advice is more valuable now than it was twenty-fivce years ago. As a hunting client, you can't afford rifle problems, but man, I've seen more than a few over the years, and I've heard stories of even more. As far as I'm concerned Echols rifles aren't over-priced at all, but many others are under-built. Big difference......... I've seen guys spend a lot more than the price of an Echols rifle on contemporary British magazine rifles that cost far, far more and were nowhere near as good from ANY standpoint of consideration, and I've seen 'em spend far more on refurbished side-by-side shotguns with a gold woodcock engraved on the underside, as well as worn-out doubles that were ready to come off the face. None of which will pull your fat out of the fire at high-noon with a grizzly, or else drop a Coues deer across a canyon in Sonora as well as one of D'Arcy's rifles does. So.........wherein lies the value?????? AD | ||
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I would like to go back to what SDH had to say. Something about "not knowing the difference". That is exactly what is so great about XL Bar's post. We get to find out just exactly what does go into an Echol's Legend so we can make up our own mind about these "diferences". Once again, keep these posts coming XL Bar. Great stuff!! | |||
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Brian, Well be sure and stop by, D'Arcy has my phone number. 22WRF, I'd agree that small groups aren't the "end all" measure of a fine DG rifle. Probably not even one of the top couple. But rest assured that the rifles are tested for much more then accuracy. D'Arcy also makes many rifles that aren't specific DG rifles. The long range version is quite popular. Though I would argue that they are every bit as reliable as the DG model. Jordan, Please show me any equivalent rifle for 2-3 grand. | |||
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Ralphie Just curious. Are you yourself making rifles or doing rifle work? If so, why don't you tell the group here a little bit about yourself and what kind of rifle work you do.  | |||
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22WRF, Sorry for the confusion. I worked for D'Arcy while attending graduate school at Utah State University. I posted several times in the past while I was working for him. I did alot of the more simple stuff while I was there and it seemed that I lived at the range. Which is not a bad thing when you are shooting Legends and Classics. Except when trying to debug a certain .416 rem that turns out to be the %$#@ing scope that is supposed to be the lastest and greatest and ... Anyway, I don't work for him anymore having graduated, now I'm an Ag extension agent with the University of Wyoming. It was a fantastic experience, I learned alot (not just about rifles) and D'Arcy is a great friend. Does that statisfy your curiosity? | |||
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Ralphie I have read your previous posts and knew that you had worked for Echols. I certainly wasn't questioning your credentials. Rather, just trying to determine whether you have a shop and are taking in gun work. | |||
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Gladly! A few days ago I received a bill from my benchrest gunsmith for some action work done on an XP-100 which I supplied. The prices and work I am about to discuss are applicable to a Model 70 rework as well. For $575.00, my 'smith performed the following work: single point recut the action threads in a 4-jaw action trueing jig whic is capable of locating and holding the action to within .0001-.0002 of centerline while the action is trued; bolt lug abutments recut while the action is held in the same fixture to the same tolerances; receiver faced while action held in same fixture. Bolt nose trued and faced, bolt sleeves installed and firing pin hole bushed; Holland recoil lug double pinned and installed; custom "lite steel" firing pin, spring, shroud and assembly installed. All work performed by a match winning, highly skilled machinist/gunsmith on a heavy, industrial quality tool room lathe using two dial indicators to insure all machining operations are with reference to the centerline of bolt and receiver. I should mention, I will also have a Holland bolt handle installed for about $110.00. [Should have had it done before the other work was started but forgot to tell my 'smith---he may have to reinstall the bolt sleeves as a result of my memory lapse.] My 'smith charges $200.00 for a surface grind. So, for $885.00 I will have a fully blue-printed and remanufactured action with tolerances comparable to a Nesika Bay or a BAT action. I am certain Echols tolerances will not be tighter. [In fact, if you put magic marker on the bolt lug abutments in my receiver and install the bolt and work the handle up and down one time, the magic marker will be completely wiped off each receiver lug abutment. In other words, I have 100% bolt lug/receiever lug abutment contact with the bolt held perfectly straight in the receiver by the trueing sleeves when the bolt handle is turned.] Shortly a fluted Krieger barrel will be installed. The chambering and installation will take my 'smith 8 full hours. A "through the muzzle" flushing system will be used and the tolerances will be as near perfect as can be attained. I am not sure my cost on the Kreiger barrel, but let us assume $400.00. My 'smith will charge $250.00 to thread, chamber and crown, which will take him all day---and by the way, the barrel threads will be cut with spiral-lock thread cutting tools for a better thread fit. At this point, I will have a fully remanufactured action of such precision that it will compare favorably with the finest benchrest quality actions. I will have a match grade barrel installed by a top benchrest quality gunsmith in the country for a total cost of about $1535.00. I presume a McMillan stock will run me about $400.00. My 'smith will pillar bed the rifle with a dial indicator on the barrel so that when the receiver screws are loosed, there is no movement of the barrel at a cost of $200.00. A high quality hot blue from Glenrock Blue in Wyoming will add about $150.00 to the cost, as I recall. Thus, for about $2285.00 [I supplied the action] I will own a rifle with the same components as an Echol's legend [remanufactured Remington action vs. a Winchester, Krieger barrel, McMillan plastic furniture]. Let us assume Echols spends 10 hours at $50.00 per hour timing the extractor on his remanufactured Winchester, insuring proper feeding and reworking the trigger. That adds $500.00 to the cost and then of course, we have the cost of a set of Talley rings or something comparable. So again, assuming the cost of a Legend rifle at $8,000-10,000.00, where is the value added? Load development you say? Sorry, I don't need some one to develop a load for rifle's built by my 'smith with Krieger, Lothar Walther or even Douglas barrels. I am confident the rifle I mentioned above [to be chambered in .22 Dasher] will shoot sub 1/4" groups at 100 yards all day long. Balance and handling you say? Don't insult our intelligence. Assuming an overal length of about 44", there is, for all practical purposes, a finite number of balance points along the lineal length of the rifle and we know the correct balance point is going to be somewhere a within an inch or so fore or aft of the front action screw. So, what does Echols add to this rifle assembled of garden variety components? As near as I can tell the value added is several thousand in load development and driving back and forth from Millville to the range west of Logan. If the market demands that kind of money for metering powder through a scale and seating bullets, then we would all quit our jobs as doctors and lawyeres and do load development for a living. We don't however, precisely because we know that he market is not paying thousands to have someone develop a load for our rifles. If you an show me that Echols is doing fine engraving, installing gold filligree and spending hours inletting an exhibition piece of Turkish Walnut, then at $8,000.00-$10,000.00 I am interested. But the idea that a rifle assembled around a Winchester receiver [and investment casting mind you!] and a McMillan plastic stock has an inherent value of $8,000.00 and more, well, P.T. Barnum's quote again comes prominently to mind. Let me close with this remark. I have no ill will against Echols or anyone else who can convince the consumer to pay alot more for his product than it is actually worth. In fact, I tip my hat to the man for his apparent marketing genius. My point is simply that you can get the same product for well under half the price and less. If you want to pay more, by all means do so. Far be it from me to stop anyone from lighting a match to his currency! Jordan | |||
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P.S. I forgot to mention that I also had a Sako extractor installed on my bolt which is included in the $575.00 cost. | |||
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Wow, I didn't know D'Arcy used Talley mounts, investment cast Model 70's, and a prefab stocks. Maybe he doesn't use custom bottom metal, or self designed magazine boxes eigther. HMMM. The things you learn. Jordan, have you ever looked at, handled, or shot a Legend? I'm going on a limb here and guessing.........no. Chuck | |||
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Chuck: I am fully prepared to be englighted on the value added. But the post which started this thread said nothing about any of the acoutrements you have mentioned. How much is Sunny Hill bottom metal? How are Echol's mounts different than or superior to a Talley QD mount and at what cost? Is Echols manufacturig his own bottom metal, or is he simply reworking someone elses? Again, at what cost? I have seen, but never handled or fired a legend and I am confident that a deer killed with one is no deader than a deer killed with my Blaser or my HVA. I further doubt that the balance or handling [whatever those terms mean!] is significantly better either. Jordan | |||
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Jordan Model 70 receivers are forged and machined. You don't give the name of the Smith you are speaking of. | |||
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I'm sure that this will end up as a "we agree to disagree" argument. And apparently the Legend is not worth the price for you, that's all fine. What I take exception with is that all rifles with Mcmillian stocks, trued actions, and Krieger barrels are equal. You really ought to find someone with a Legend or Classic and look it over, or better yet call up D'Arcy. If you can catch him, he's usually off on some vacation spending all the money he's making by ripping people off. | |||
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I did not give the name of my 'smith because I did not want to seem to be boasting about him. Assuming for the sake of analysis that the Winchester action is indeed a forging, it's market value is only $500-600.00. Jordan | |||
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No where did I say or even imply that Echol's was ripping people off. What I did imply is that there are some consumers out there who are not, in my opinion, good stewards with their money. But as I also stated, it is their money. I am told there is a picture of an Echol's legend in this month's Rifle magazine. I intend to read the article. | |||
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Something just doesn't add up Jordan? How could this 'smith pay for all that precision machinery charging $32.50 per hour (barrel job 8 hours for $250)? So we have either, a pentioned retiree, hobbiest or part-timer who is not charging professional prices. I've grown tired of responding to this scenario. My shop rate is more than twice what you are suggesting. There is simply no way to respond to someone who under-values himself, nor to someone who takes advantage of it and brags about what a good deal they got. ...will never know the difference. SDH ACGG Life Member, since 1985 | |||
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