xs

Well Duane, chances are I will never obtain one of your barrels in this configuration. I have one rifle, a pre WW1 Mauser with just such a barrel, full rib with integral front ramp, I've had nothing but "wows" from my fellow gun nuts. Wish you the best of luck in your endeavor no doubt some will appreciate your efforts. --- John

Put me in the "Yes please" column.

You bet!

Here is how to do it; mill away everything that doesn't look an octagon barrel with a rib, and after every cut you have to straighten it.

That seems like a good place for a wire EDM.
Once set up no stress is applied to the blank and you can walk away until it is finished.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
That seems like a good place for a wire EDM.
Once set up no stress is applied to the blank and you can walk away until it is finished.

Look.......there are many ways to make these barrels. The average gun shop has a Bridgeport type machine...this is targeted at the average shop with a mill. Most do not have EDMS, Water Jet,, for that matter CNC's. Enough said?

Another point! Couple PM's thought I was soliciting this integral work. NO...NO...NO.. Matter of fact, will duck the job when able to do so.

True, I use a lot of Douglas barrels; I have been to Douglas barrels many times; used to date a girl who lived across the street from them so my way to entertain her was to take her to Douglas and watch them make barrels. That is probably why she picked another guy instead of me. That was 40 years ago.

guy musta have had a longer barrel

Yeah, he must have....

Count me in on the info.

Adam

I'd buy a booklet.
Don

As would I!

Yes! Is that a boring head on the far end to hold the barrel? If so a neat way to set the taper.

I would buy a booklet.

Count me in.

I've always wanted to try machining a barrel contour like that, have a few ideas on how to do it but I'd be very interested in having a booklet by someone that's done it already.

Yes Sir I would be interested.

Please count me in for a booklet.

Thanks

Hoot

I would be interested in your instructions.

I'd be interested in buying your booklet explaining the jigs and procedure, Duane. Thanks,
Steve

I'm in.

Could have used a picture of that set up three months ago. Good idea on the boring head for your taper offset.

Count me in.

Yes! I hope that a "how to" make the table jig would be included in the booklet as well.

Pencil me in as well. That would be the perfect barrel configuration for my Steve Earle Henry action. All's I need is a barrel and a stocker...

I'd take one.

I am in

Add me to the list. I may never be able to accomplish it, but it won't be for the lack of "howto" now.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
That seems like a good place for a wire EDM.
Once set up no stress is applied to the blank and you can walk away until it is finished.

You are kidding of course? I guess they're machines with that capacity some place in this world, but I never seen one even in a catalog. Search one up.
You would still need to do a tremendous amount of work on the mill to finish it.
The machine time on an EDM that size would be cost prohibitive.

Duane, count me in for one.

Count me in.

Dave

I am not kidding a bit. There are many businesses in the medical industry that have as many as 30 to 40 wire machines set up for production work.
Repeat production. Those machines have rethreading capability if a wire breaks. Once the machine is set up and running operators can go to another machine or go home for the night and leave them all running lights out.
If there really was much of a market for integral features on a barrel it would be nothing to set up production of it. The problem is there is little market for it. So the price will always remaing high because of the prototype or manual production methods.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
You are kidding of course? I guess they're machines with that capacity some place in this world, but I never seen one even in a catalog. Search one up.
You would still need to do a tremendous amount of work on the mill to finish it.
The machine time on an EDM that size would be cost prohibitive.

Duane, count me in for one.

SR4759,
Have you ever run a wire EDM machine or even seen one set up & run? The machine is capable of doing the profiling work but not capable of doing the Octaginal to round contour or integral rib, these would require additional setups in a mill. EDM cutting also creates a HAZ (Heat effected zone) in relationship to the cut which change the metalurgical characteristics of the material in that zone & change stress factors if the material is not removed or stress relieved. A machining center (CNC lathe with live tooling, milling capability) would by far be a much better choice for this operation as it could complete the turning, milling & drilling & precise indexing all in one setup. Cost effectiveness of one of these machines require a production enviroment, not effective to make a barrel once in a while!

M4220

Twenty-plus years ago there was a Scheutzen competitor who was also a gunsmith and owned a machine shop in Golden, CO. Conrad Grimes. He made all sorts of one-off stuff for Coors. He designed and patented the original pop top tab can openers that we see on beverage cans. iirc, he told me he was getting a penny per.

Anyway, he showed up at the Coors Schuetzenfest in '96 (?) with a one-piece Ballard billet action in 25-06. It had a tapered octagon barrel with an integral milled full length untapered rib. 28" barrel. Just beautiful workmanship. I'm just speechless thinking about how much mill time had to have been involved.

Connie tells me, it was about a five hour job to do the first one. The second one was about three.

He profiled a blank round for 2 1/2", then tuliped it down to octagon on seven of the eight flats. Seven! The eighth one he left round. His last steps were to mill that round top flat, and then narrow the sides about .050" to leave the rib. Final touch, was to mill two small slots for placement of scope thimble mounts for his big 2" Unertl on the Schuetzen rifle, and for a QD rings for a 6-20 Leupold on the 25-06 hunting rifle.

And now, you know;"the rest of the story...".

Rich

Rich,
Once you had the tooling made & setup established for the indexing the work you could probally do the rough machine work & make ready for the finish work & polishing to make ready for the blueing which I'll bet would consume as much time as the rough machine work. I have spent my whole career in Aerospace machine shops & don't know of a single person that I could hand a barrel blank to and point them to a conventional milling machine with a blueprint of finish dimensions and be able to expect them to hand me back a barrel ready for blueing & install in the hours you mention. It could be possible on a CNC machining center after some hours establishing & testing the program & setup. I think Duane could be considered an acomplished machinist, let's ask him how many hours he has in the tooling,setup & machining his first time in making one of these? In the above shop picture it appears as a CNC mill in the background but yet Duane is using a Bridgeport type conventional mill. I am willing to bet he has deemed that the most cost effective way to complete this work for a one off project.

Duane,
Your comments on bbl warpage suprise me, is this bbl finished bored & rifled prior to the mill work? What size gauge pin will slide through the entire bore when the bbl is ready for install? This would help establish any indication of warp in the bore & should be done prior to first shot & then again after several shots & the bbl warmed up. Would be interested in the results, seems like some form of stress relief would be required such as shotpeen, furnace, or cryogenics?

m4220

Jim, replied to you PM with a youtube showing this turning center with live tooling option.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VMzs1Mqxzg

m4220

5 hours? I kinda don't think so.

I'd love a pamphlet on the process. I'll never machine a barrel like that but would be fascinated to read about it.

Mart

quote:

Originally posted by m4220:
Have you ever run a wire EDM machine or even seen one set up & run? The machine is capable of doing the profiling work but not capable of doing the Octaginal to round contour or integral rib, these would require additional setups in a mill.
.... Cost effectiveness of one of these machines require a production enviroment, not effective to make a barrel once in a while!

The advancing technology in 3D printing and constantly reducing cost of buying such machines,
I suspect will soon make it more viable for use in custom gun building.

RR,GE and NASA builds jet and rocket engine components by way of 3D printing,
Shell makes components out of Iconel,cobalt-chromium, titanium,..by 3D print method,
Solid Concepts have manufactured a fully functional 1911 pistol via 3D print method.

3D printing of metal parts, also referred to as SLM [selective laser melting] is a more convenient way of constructing an object, compared to
EBM[electron beam melting]...EBM requires a vacuum environment, whereas an SLM laser operates within an applied anti-oxidation gas shield.

SLM & EBM, use pure alloy powders, and thus may not require any additional thermal treatment to obtain the required mechanical properties for the component.
and because of the temp involved in the process, their is little or no residual stress in the printed component.

Learn to read.
Wire EDMs are widely used in production already.
Surprise surprise but a machining center puts side loads in a long slender object. Unless you have a support that object will deflect.
A wire EDM puts no side load on an object. Yes it will profile. No it will not cut every convex surface but in some cases a mill will not either.
If you don't know how to handle the recast layer don't worry there are other people that know how. There are millions of people walking around with medical implants that were EDMed.
And the recast layer was removed by chem milling.
However for something as robust as a barrel I would not be very concerned.

As my original comments said these features are not popular enough to pay for running large lots of barrels on advanced equipment.

quote:

Originally posted by m4220:
SR4759,
Have you ever run a wire EDM machine or even seen one set up & run? The machine is capable of doing the profiling work but not capable of doing the Octaginal to round contour or integral rib, these would require additional setups in a mill. EDM cutting also creates a HAZ (Heat effected zone) in relationship to the cut which change the metalurgical characteristics of the material in that zone & change stress factors if the material is not removed or stress relieved. A machining center (CNC lathe with live tooling, milling capability) would by far be a much better choice for this operation as it could complete the turning, milling & drilling & precise indexing all in one setup. Cost effectiveness of one of these machines require a production enviroment, not effective to make a barrel once in a while!

M4220