Biebs, might want to call them....if you haven't yet done so. I don't think it was posted on their website.

The 7wsm is a nice cartridge as well.

Euro Optic sometimes will have some nice rifles....new,and used. Just a few thoughts.....

I'll be working the Euro-Optics booth at SCI this week, and Accuracy Intl and Barrett will both be there. Better hold onto my wallet!!! :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
JWP, I hunt Alaska with a 338 RUM in an 8 lbs rifle, and with a brake on it, it's tolerable. In a 14 lbs rifle, like a Sako TRG-42, Barrett MRAD, or an AI, it would probably be a cinch. But for the utmost accuracy, the 30 cal and below are likely to be more accurate.

Maybe, but without a lot of fuss my 338 Laupa shoots in the .2 MOA range. Close enough to never cause miss.

I have several 300 win mags as well as several 300 RUM's without a doubt if you want to shoot out to 2000 yards a 300 grain 338 bullet beats the pants off of anything smaller. In fact the longest confirmed sniper kill us with a 338 Laupa, beat the 50 BMG record not too long ago.

quote:

I have several 300 win mags as well as several 300 RUM's without a doubt if you want to shoot out to 2000 yards a 300 grain 338 bullet beats the pants off of anything smaller.

I am quite sure the difference is apparent well before 2000 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

I have several 300 win mags as well as several 300 RUM's without a doubt if you want to shoot out to 2000 yards a 300 grain 338 bullet beats the pants off of anything smaller.

I am quite sure the difference is apparent well before 2000 yards.

i'd say you are correct.

quote:

Maybe, but without a lot of fuss my 338 Laupa shoots in the .2 MOA range

Well JWP I would seriously consider a little bit more fuss and then you can clean up in Benchrest matches, especially in windy conditions!
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:

quote:

Maybe, but without a lot of fuss my 338 Laupa shoots in the .2 MOA range

Well JWP I would seriously consider a little bit more fuss and then you can clean up in Benchrest matches, especially in windy conditions!
Peter.

You're a real gem.

I just got back from a long range shooting sesssion/rabbit hunt in the desert. I thought I brought my .338 Edge, .338 Lapau, and a .300 RUM but realized I had the first two and forgot to pack the RUM.

I set up at 800 yards. First up was the Edge. Wind was 3 mph on my anemometer, mirage was flat left to right, and vegetation near the target was blowing fairly strong. With a .308 I would have held 4 MOA; with a RUM, 3 MOA. I held 2 MOA with the Edge and fired one shot sitting with a bipod and sling at my 3 inch aiming circle painted on a rock. Hit the circle at 5 o'clock.

Switched to my .338 Lapua. The wind was not blowing as hard. Trees were not moving as much, but mirage was clearly left to right. Anemomoter said 2-2.8 mph. I held 1.5 minutes and hit the other aiming circle at 9 o'clock.

Obviously lucky, but one thing the 300 gr .338 bullets possess is minimal wind drift and less spin drift than other bullets. Spin drift at 800 is about 1/2 MOA with a 300 gr .338 bullet. A 300 RUM 180 is about .7 MOA. Not huge, but more.

As JWP says, .338 300s rule at long range.

And no, I wasn't rabbit hunting with a .338...

AnotherAZWriter,
Noted your wind adj. for 308@ 800yds with 3mph full value wind estimate to be some 4 moa. or equivalent to some 32". Under those conditions I would have applied something on the order of 2.4 moa or 19.2"(1moa = 8"@ 800yds.) Reason for my adjustment due to using formula of Range X Velocity(wind velocity) / 1000(using 1000 due to full value wind direction equaling 2.4moa.)
With practice most can come close to estimating speed of wind, but direction is more difficult and if half value, say from 2 o'clock to 8 o'clock, would divide by different number than 1000. I am not smart enough to remember all those other clock direction numbers so if I think it is not full value, take half of what the 1000 divisor gives you either right or left. Just a suggestion.

PS Re read your comments and I stand corrected for now realize close to your firing point wind was apparently more than est. speed down range and more than likely would have applied same wind adjustment as you stated. I generally would adjust for wind based on wind estimate within first 1/3rd of total distance being shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Instructor:
AnotherAZWriter,
Noted your wind adj. for 308@ 800yds with 3mph full value wind estimate to be some 4 moa. or equivalent to some 32". Under those conditions I would have applied something on the order of 2.4 moa or 19.2"(1moa = 8"@ 800yds.) Reason for my adjustment due to using formula of Range X Velocity(wind velocity) / 1000(using 1000 due to full value wind direction equaling 2.4moa.)
With practice most can come close to estimating speed of wind, but direction is more difficult and if half value, say from 2 o'clock to 8 o'clock, would divide by different number than 1000. I am not smart enough to remember all those other clock direction numbers so if I think it is not full value, take half of what the 1000 divisor gives you either right or left. Just a suggestion.

PS Re read your comments and I stand corrected for now realize close to your firing point wind was apparently more than est. speed down range and more than likely would have applied same wind adjustment as you stated. I generally would adjust for wind based on wind estimate within first 1/3rd of total distance being shot.

Instructor:

Yes, I agree a true 3 mph wind would never have that much effect, but in order to shoot that far in AZ, I am generally shooting at a target on a hillside - not high enough to require an elevation change, but high enough that the wind will be blowing harder than my shooting spot. I am not shooting at a range when I shoot past 500 because the range near my house only goes to 500. I have learned that unless I am on a high ridge or hill where I can feel the total effect of the wind, it is always a higher value.

The mirage on the Edge shot was flat, tight, and fast, so I knew the composite effect was more than 3 mph; I had the image focused about halfway to the target. The trees that were at the target were blowing, indicating to me the wind there was harder than 3 mph, but not a 10 mph wind. I also know when the wind hits 10 mph, it starts to move my spotting scope. Speaking of that, I put a small wind flag on a shock-corded pole on my tripod. The flag itself if a cotton ball. If the prevailing wind at my site is 3 mph, I note how far the cotton ball is blowing from the tripod. When I shoot, I can see this ball with my left eye and try to shoot only when the cotton ball is in the right place.

Finally, I keep of shooting log of each shot. Since I shoot at rocks or a gong, I know the impact of each shot. I write down the conditions, make my estimate, take the shot, then write down what I thought the true wind value was and what I held. In the above case, about 1/2 MOA was spin drift. After I write down, I look in the scope and see where I hit. This gives me a record of how my measured values/estimates compare with my results, and give me a feedback loop. Before shooting I always review the notes for that rifle for the past few months. I alternate rifles, shooting the two .338s, two 300 RUMs, a 7 STW, a .308 Win, and a .220 Swift shooting 80 gr AMAX's. I have other guns that are okay to 500, but they are not accurate enough at 800. This means I don't wear out a barrel all at once, but I am constantly having to review my notes, etc. since I may be shooting a rifle I have not shot for a month or two (when I rotate them out they go into my cleaning regimen).

I enjoy these conversations about wind - there is always something to learn! The more you practice, the better you get, but once in a while, it fools you badly. Or changes right when you shoot.

No question that each and every time one shoots at Long Range there is a definite learning curve that takes place. That's what always kept me coming back to it. To be able to control that relatively small bullet at 8,9,1000yds+ with various light conditions, wind, mirage, etc. is a challenge. I note you shoot the Swift with 80gr bullets. Back in the early 90's friend and I built two rifles in 22-250 w/ 8 twist barrels and shot the 80gr SMK's. Rifle had 30" barrels and on basic Rem.700 actions with the old Rem. Range Master walnut target stocks(bought them from Numrich for $35.00) bedded w/ Tubbs Lug, Jewell triggers and Warner Micrometer rear w/ Anshutz Globe front. Rifle weighed just over 10lbs and having shot 308 and 300 Win. Mag for so long and first time behind the rifle did not even realize it had went off when I pulled the trigger! Could get something over 3200fps with it, but accuracy suffered and found that dropping to just at 3100fps accuracy was excellent. Turned out that "dope" on the rifle was very similar to shooting the 308 with the SMK 155 Palma bullet and no felt recoil, a big plus. In those days I could expect to have a score in the 190's @ 1000yds if I did my part and best score ever for me was 198/8X(not bad for a 22.) Have not shot competitively for several years now, but couple years ago built another rifle using Ruger No.1 w/ 28", 7 twist barrel and with either the 80's or the 90 SMK the rifle is very accurate. Over 70 now and eyes are not what they used to be and have Unertl 16X mounted on it. Supposedly the preferred twist for the 90's is 6, but the 7 twist seems to do well with them. We have a lot of coyotes here and next month friend and I are going to enjoy seeing how the rifle does at 600yds or more on those "dogs." We used to say that "the wind is your friend if you know how to read him..."

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Matt, I'm thinking somewhere in the 30 caliber range will do it. The 338s and up are pretty specialized rigs, and don't have much use as anything else. I don't intend to do matches, just play around at 700-1,000 yards, improving my wind and mirage-reading skills, and doing something different in the rifle arena.

This is just a question. Why go to all the recoil , expense and short barrel life.
A 6.5 Creedmoor will do all you have outlined here and have a minimum of 2,000 rounds with minimum throat erosion. You can do 3 times as much shooting for the same expense. And, this is the biggy for me. Once you get things figured out, you still have barrel life. Tho a 7/08 may be a happy medium between the 6.5 and the 308. And engoy the same bc with a little less throat erosion.
But my pic is the Creed.