As I experiment here in the desert out to over 1000 yards I can't help but think "this is a hell of a lot of fun, and I know others are doing the same where they have access to big long ranges as well.

So the idea came to share what I learned as I have been doing on some rifle reviews, in hopes that others will do the same.

I have read everything I could get my hands on, watched every video, shot F-Class, 1000 yard competitions, killed rocks, hit gongs and tried to learn what I could. If knowledge were a bucket, mine would not be very full, but it would have a bit in there.

So here goes:

1. Long range accuracy is 90% applied science and 10% skill or bullshit. Saying that the 10% of skill is massively important in competition. Guys like David Tubb dominate because they are skilled shooters, who fully understand the science and are humble enough to admit their mistakes and weaknesses.

2. The single biggest point of failure is not having a scope that is capable of repeatable windage and elevation adjustment. Or having that scope set up incorrectly. A guy is better off with a $2300 Nightforce NXS on a $600 Savage varminter than the other way around. I have learned this lesson so hard it isn't even fair. Everyone likes nice rifles, the Germans have been doing this for years, not sure why we haven't figured this out. A x-girlfriend of mine had a Sauer 202 Wolverine in 6.5x55 with a Zeiss 6-24x72 (it was huge), Swedish girl but the result is the same. She was raised to understand that the optic is the biggest single point of failure on a rifle.

3. Caliber, bullet ballistic coefficient, speed and accuracy are marginally important. A 1 moa rifle can hit a 10 inch target reliably at 1000 yards with a high degree of success. A half MOA rifle will do it better, and those that shoot 1/4 inch groups are preferred but not mandatory. It is harder to do things with bullets that don't work the wind as well, but not impossible. On Sunday afternoon I shot 60 rounds of cheap Remington round nose PSP stuff into a 6 inch group at 600 yards because I needed the brass.

4. Quality triggers are important. A shit trigger on a high end rifle is just that. Is a guarantee you will be disappointed in your groups.

5.

Great post...and Thanks! I only get to shoot past 100 yards once a year when I go to Kansas to shoot PD's.

Hopefully this thread will get lot's of reply's.

My biggest problem at long range is wind. Big, high BC bullets help this some, but practice is probably worth more. Some people use ballistic apps and anemometers etc. but in a lot of places the wind will be different in a few places along the way. Maybe not in kansas, but in the mountains it can definitely do weird things, including some significant vertical. I've been out shooting when it was snowing lightly, and the snow was very clearly doing different things at different places along the flight path. One trick is to use the parallax adjustment to focus the scope at different ranges to see what the mirage (or snow) is doing. There are a variety of good articles on reading wind, both in competition and in the field. I would suggest reading what you can find, then practicing it. Some of the local f-class guys shoot 223 once in a while to try and get better at reading wind.

BWW,

Good info.

On the other hand, I have watched a known 1/4 min rifle not be able to hit the black at a 600 yard MR target- why? The "indian" behind the arrow had no clue as to the minimal skills required.

After a season of coaching, he earned a distinguished Riflemans badge in four EIC matches.

So, there is balance- a perfect rig and a loose nut result in lots of wasted ammo. My coach told me "perfect practice equals perfect performance" (my Dad).

It is rather funny to see the scores of my fellow High Power shooters- poor 600 yard score early in the season, getting better and better until November, then repeat. Why? No practice from Nov- April for the most part.

Same for me now- recovering from shoulder reconstruction, forgot how to get into a position it seems ( or need to relearn it with new ortho limits).

Now that the US Service rifle is allowed up to 4.5X optics, you should see the learning curve going on equipment and skill wise- lots of money being poured into the mounts, rings and scopes, and shooters burning lots of barrel life figuring out how to keep center 10s and Xs- skill is the critical factor. Several national champion level shooters report no statistical improvement in raw score, maybe a few Xs, while entry level types report dropping scores, mid skill tpes are saying a few points and Xs improvement. My biggest impact has been seeing my heartbeat and being able to break the shot between.... resulting a few Xs worth of improvement.

Granted, you are mostly speaking about big rifle/bipod huge optics- so skill may not play as big a role as a sling-shooting type. ( but, from personal exp, I know that a major change in cheek pressure (etc) on a bipod supported optic equipped rig still pushes the round out of the group!-skill)

BWW, I gotta disagree on a few points...

Accuracy is always important; yes, a 1 MOA rifle can theoretically hit a 10 inch target at 1000 yards (we need to define "high degree of success") but it has zero tolerance for wind error, simply because some shots are going to hit five inches left and some five inches right - half the time your wind error will blow that bullet off the target (I say half because you are just as likely to underestimate or overestimate the effect of wind). A rifle that shoots 1/4 minute groups at 1000 yards has 3.75 inches of error on the widest shot - not huge, but how often do you miss by that much with a 1 MOA rifle?

Same applies with errors of elevation; temperature doesn't move bullets a lot, but enough to cause a miss on those shots that hit 5 inches high due to natural group dispersion.

I have the long range bug too, but I almost never shoot prone, instead shooting sitting with a bipod and shooting sling, using a technique that is nearly bench rest steady. I say "nearly" because it isn't perfect. However, I can almost always use that position in the field, unlike prone. Consequently, I agree with HPMaster: the nut behind the trigger is more important than you give credit.

I also shoot a lot sitting with a sling (not cross leg but open); that is fast and deadly and anyone with a little practice can use it out to at least 300 if not 400 yards. I used to be quite good at 500, but lately have not practiced that far.

Finally, as jpl says, the wind is the killer. All the equipment in the world won't make you good at LR shooting unless you practice in the wind. Shooting only under calm conditions is like shooting prone: it makes you think you are better than you really are.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming: 2. (. . .) A guy is better off with a $2300 Nightforce NXS on a $600 Savage varminter than the other way around. 4. Quality triggers are important. A shit trigger on a high end rifle is just that.

I've come to both these conclusions. Though I'm NOT the world's best marksman, there's no question in my mind that I could well be the world's worst, were it not for the good optics I put on my rifles and the fact that I insist on good triggers.

Assuming you're starting out with an accurate rifle designed for LR shooting, and that includes quality optics designed for LR shooting, the bitch is always the wind. Elevation is fairly straightforward as long as you're shooting under known conditions including temp, barometric pressure, and yardage. Wind however is where the art comes in to play. Shooting at 600 yards and beyond and the wind can blow in several directions between you and the target. Trying to dope the wind and it's influence on bullet path is the art that puts the bullet on target. Art and a little luck...

The other challenge I encounter is mirage. A dancing target is loads of fun (not). Haven't figured out how to get that one under control other than shooting in the dead of night.

A very good way to practice "reading the wind" is to shoot your favorite 22@200yds. Takes very slight breeze to shift the bullet other than where you want it to go. I use a 40X with Warner rear and Anshutz globe front and target is simply a 10" pie plate stapled to the target board. Do this in standing, sitting, and prone and the process is very economical even though using some high grade match ammo. I do shoot the common stuff as well and don't expect as much out of it, but still good practice. For me the micrometer sights are a better sight system for this practice than optics, but both will serve their purpose. Any flaws in your shooting in the various positions, sling set up, breathing, trigger pull, grip on the rifle will show up PLUS the wind factor. I only attempt to predict/call the wind for the first half of the flight of the bullet for am told that is where the bullet in flight sees the most impact of the wind. I can not control the flight for varying winds at the target face and never shoot if the mirage is "boiling." Actually I depend on the feel of the wind and mirage to determine adjustments for wind drift. Just a suggestion.

Good point about conditions/mirage.

One matra we in HP are taught early "is it the same or has it changed" regarding the observed conditions, granted, at 600 yards, we are in the "near" mid range area.

Many shooters are worried about time ( timed fire = 20 shots/20 minutes at 600) so if conditions are varying, one either has to "wait it out" until conditions return to where you are set at or you have to adjust to the changes.

Mirage- yes, indeed the target is not necessarily where it appears to be, but that is limited by optics- maybe a minute of shift at 600 in a high mirage/ 10-15mph cross wind.

More experienced shooters find a condition, then shoot quickly but staying most of the time on the spotting scope rather than the sights. With irons, the old adage of " it doesn't get better with time" is very true- observe the conditions, assess and adjust then get on the sights and fire within 4-8 seconds or back off and start over. Get on the scope after follow through to confirm the condition and compare to the marker on the target, calling your shot before the target comes back up. Confirm dope or reassess, repeat.

With optics, that may be a bit longer, but "retinal burn-in" occurs regardless, more so and quicker in bright conditions.

I shoot often at long range at a mountainous shooting range with steel targets set-up from 100 yds to 900 yds.

Starting at 400 yds and moving quickly out to 900 yds, the game I play is “hit-the-target-on-the-first-shot” – that is, simulating hunting conditions. If I miss the first shot, I try to get it on target by the second or even third shot.

I figure that big buck of a lifetime might just tolerate - at very long range - 3 shots, before he bolts.

If you have the resources to buy good equipment and you can buy or reload ammo with consistent velocities, the science/technology problem is easily solved and first-shot hits out to 900 yds are quite easy – BUT only under no or minimal wind/mirage conditions.

With even gusty light winds (2-3 mph) things get dicey especially at the longer ranges and with the smaller targets, and even dicier as wind/mirage increase.

At my range, when the winds come-up, I have to cope with gusty conditions, rapidly changing wind speeds, changing wind directions, and even changing up and down winds, especially at 700 yards and beyond. Often winds are gusting in the 3 to 15 mph range.

A good spotter really helps getting on target quickly, but I usually shoot alone.

Thus, I’ve had to become my own spotter.

With discipline and concentration, I’ve learned (to the best I can) not to flinch and keep my eye open to the target, hoping to see the bullet trail or where the bullet hits relative to the target. If successful, I make a quick adjustment and fire the second and third shots, often getting on target - that is, unless there are “severe” wind conditions.

To do this, RECOIL CONTROL, is very important, especially when you’re shooting a 338 RUM.
Thus, I let the gun recoil into a 25 lbs shot bag, sometimes two 25 lbs shot bags.

Even then, the technique does not always work, but it helps.

Wind and mirage drama make LR shooting fun and very challenging.

quote:

Originally posted by Instructor:
A very good way to practice "reading the wind" is to shoot your favorite 22@200yds. Takes very slight breeze to shift the bullet other than where you want it to go. I use a 40X with Warner rear and Anshutz globe front and target is simply a 10" pie plate stapled to the target board. Do this in standing, sitting, and prone and the process is very economical even though using some high grade match ammo. I do shoot the common stuff as well and don't expect as much out of it, but still good practice. For me the micrometer sights are a better sight system for this practice than optics, but both will serve their purpose. Any flaws in your shooting in the various positions, sling set up, breathing, trigger pull, grip on the rifle will show up PLUS the wind factor. I only attempt to predict/call the wind for the first half of the flight of the bullet for am told that is where the bullet in flight sees the most impact of the wind. I can not control the flight for varying winds at the target face and never shoot if the mirage is "boiling." Actually I depend on the feel of the wind and mirage to determine adjustments for wind drift. Just a suggestion.

Maybe, the problem we have is that our terrain has vertical to 9500 feet, and a wide and varied mix of terrain. The location is subject to a variety of wind speeds and direction. I think at 200 yards it would be hard to get that effect.

Also we are shooting bullets that have G1 BCs over .500, where a 22LR has the BC of a Isac Newton's apple.

The only sure fire way to learn to shoot the wind is to do it in the same situations you are going to hunt in.

I try not to shoot too much between the berms at my local range, as the decrease in wind screws with your head. It is not realistic of what a F-Class/Full Bore range would have, nor is it realistic to what you would have in the hunting situation as the wind is greatly decreased or modified by the berms.

The .22 drill described is pretty much a staple unless you have unlimited ammo and a 1000 yard range. To each their own.

From what I've seen and heard scopes with experienced High Power shooters are about a 10 to 15 point increase. Newer shooters have more problems with both magnification and seeing what is going on outside of the scope. One of the master shooters at our club has seen the difference of shooting a mix of Master and high master to consistent master scores. I have not tried a scope yet, maybe next season. I'm working on getting back into the 60's and 70's again.

LR 101, Ive come to the conclusion that;

A- it is much easier to run after having learned to walk. In other words, master 400 yds before trying to master 1000.

B- it is critical to limit yourself to just enough coffee in the morning to calm yourself as opposed to reaching roadrunner mode.

c- know your rifle.

d- aim small.

e- once you have 400 yds down pat, read a book on how to reach 600. Or better yet 500, and dont forget to take notes!

quote:

Originally posted by B L O'Connor:
Though I'm NOT the world's best marksman, there's no question in my mind that I could well be the world's worst.

With all due respect, I find that highly unlikely.

I disagree with setting your wind conditions or that shooting a 22LR isn't useful. I shoot in any wind I can get. Your wind formulas may not mirror your CF when shooting RF but you have to stay on top wind more so it's great practice. I do a lot of barricade work at 100 to 200yds for PRS practice. A PCP airgun works too; I can shoot alts in the backyard that way.

I disagree that we need a .25MoA gun and load for anything except the smallest targets since that level of precision doesn't appreciably increase hit percentage. A half minute gun is good enough. I understand we are reducing error but your wind reading can't be overcome by precision and most misses are from wind or range error.

Ammo is important. Your can shoot small groups at 100yds but who cares. They are not an absolute measure of precision. Poor MV deviation will causes misses past 600m.

Zero and check zero often. You wouldn't believe how often I RO a match where guys don't have a good zero. An improper zero will causes misses with data you verified before at some point in the past when your gun was zeroed.