quote:

My offer of a that shooting match is still open

Blah, Blah, Blah...

2011 MATCH SCHEDULE

3 Jul
31 Jul
4 Sept
Get ready for the 2011 season!

Those are the dates for the rest of the SRM. All you have to do is show up. I'll be at all of them.

I'll be at NorCal at the end of May for the Precision Bolt Rifle Match. Just show up there too.

If all else fails, see AS's post above. We can kill some 'lope and some whisky in Wyoming

jwp475,
Pick any altitude you want and go from there with the criteria spelled out. Split the difference and use 5000ft. Again what windage would you put on for those conditions or are there other factors to consider in a field/hunting application of long range shooting in the wind?

Antelope Sniper

Sounds good to me. Lets keep in in tune with "hunting" and not target shooting.
8 or 10" target
Varied terrain with zig zag course
Start at 800 yards
Shoot one shot prone and mMove foreward to another agreed upon spot and shoot one shot
Any position with all equipment carried with you as in on foot use hands or a pack.
Continue this into 500 yards shooting 20 shots over that 300 yards

Starting at 500 yards shoot 1 shot sitting with sticks or back pack as support
Continue that to 400 yards shooting 10 shots from agreed upon locations

At 400 yards shoot one shot sitting unsupported
Continue that to 300 yards shooting 10 shots at agreed upon locations

At 300 yards shoot offhand with sticks move forward shooting 10 shots at agreed upon locations to 200 yards. At 200 yards shoot offhand with no rest and move forward to 100 yards shooting 10 shots from agreed upon locations.

A range finder may be used

Rifle; factory sporter not weighing more than 9 lbs with scope and loaded to magazine capacity.

Caliber/cartridge; shooters choice but must retain 1000 ft lbs of energy at 600 yards.

Scope; shooters choice

Again, everything used across the course must be carried by the shooter.

That's a 50 shot course using realistic hunting equipment and rifles. It covers long range and position fundementals for field marksmanship.

Since we may be spending a day or two there we can also set up for a precision match using any rifle shooting prone or bench at small varmint size targets at various long ranges.

Think that can be done there Antelope? How about it RC?

Larry Gibson

quote:

However your responses show a very arrogant attitude toward anyone who offers another opinion or experience. The OP asked for our opinions and what we held for. He did not ask for a "right" answer. Now we all are very aware that all your answers are the "right" ones because you tell us so. Pretty arrogant of you, just like many other "gamesmen" I've seen in most shooting "games".

Not "arrogant" in the least.

I would be remiss not to correct poor information given for shooting anything if I know better for a fact, whether it be a novice shotgunner or rifleman.

I really would like your answers you've dodged about how you "guestimate" yardage while shooting big game.

How you believe all rifle target "games" involve unlimited sighters (like the games you participate in). I guess they are about the level of difficulty of Skeet or Trap with a shotgun (longest runs during competition of about 2000 targets without a miss).

All the wind drift data I provided were for my actual hunting rifles and I can carry them all day long. A 10" vital can easily be hit at 300 yards with any of them without even holding for a 10 mph wind.

Get real.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Gibson:
Antelope Sniper

Sounds good to me. Lets keep in in tune with "hunting" and not target shooting.
8 or 10" target
Varied terrain with zig zag course
Start at 800 yards
Shoot one shot prone and mMove foreward to another agreed upon spot and shoot one shot
Any position with all equipment carried with you as in on foot use hands or a pack.
Continue this into 500 yards shooting 20 shots over that 300 yards

Starting at 500 yards shoot 1 shot sitting with sticks or back pack as support
Continue that to 400 yards shooting 10 shots from agreed upon locations

At 400 yards shoot one shot sitting unsupported
Continue that to 300 yards shooting 10 shots at agreed upon locations

At 300 yards shoot offhand with sticks move forward shooting 10 shots at agreed upon locations to 200 yards. At 200 yards shoot offhand with no rest and move forward to 100 yards shooting 10 shots from agreed upon locations.

A range finder may be used

Rifle; factory sporter not weighing more than 9 lbs with scope and loaded to magazine capacity.

Caliber/cartridge; shooters choice but must retain 1000 ft lbs of energy at 600 yards.

Scope; shooters choice

Again, everything used across the course must be carried by the shooter. d

That's a 50 shot course using realistic hunting equipment and rifles. It covers long range and position fundementals for dfield marksmanship.

Since we may be spending a day or two there we can also set up for a precision match using any rifle shooting prone or bench at small varmint size targets at various long ranges.

Think that can be done there Antelope? How about it RC?

Larry Gibson

You make it sound like it's something special and never been done before.

What you describe I do twice a month at the precision match and SRM at Whittington.

Nothing special has to be done except show up to either and bring a pound of 100$ bills and bring a container for your so you have something to put it into after I hand it to you.

The place I'm thinking of is BLM land in the middle of no where. There's a nice campground with water tha can facilitate tents or campers. If you go one direction it Prairie, the other direction is mountain. It's a nice combination of bluffs, open country, and lots of wind. Antelope can see you for 2k yards. Typical wind is anywhere fm 10 to 40 mph.

After a friendly day of shooting, we could BS of the campfire, then go bag a couple of goats each. Doe tags are $48.00 each, and most years you can get at least two.

We should know about left over tags in July, and the season starts 25 September.

Antelope, sounds good to me but as you can see rc is whining and making excuses. We shall see, eh?

Larry Gibson

rc

Not only arrogant but you can't read or your comprehension skills are weak.

Your “correct” information was only your opinion on what you do. My opinion was what I do. That is what the OP wanted so what’s your point?

I’ve not “dodged’ any answers regarding how I estimate range. It was skill borne developed as an infantryman, SF Weapons NCO and long range varmint shooter. If you’d bother to read an Army sniper manual or other manuals (the ones regarding FO’s have all the “range estimation techniques in them) you would learn how it is done. I also use binoculars with a mil reticle and used the WORM formula, the fore runner of what is now referred to as a “mil-dot” formula. I also used several scopes that used the “bracket” system to guestimate range. That is the same as using mil dots which is taught in all sniping schools (just in case you didn’t know). I also used a small hand held optical range finder and a very accurate artillery optical range finder. Also knowing how to read a topical map, knowing your location and the targets location you can use the maps scale to get a pretty accurate range. Being in the military as long as I was I also had access to use the expensive and sophisticated laser range finders when they first came out. When affordable models were available to the public I got one. I’m currently using a Leupold for my hunting needs.

BTW; the “games” I’ve participated in do not have “unlimited sighters”. DCM leg matches have not sighters. Sniper quals (police and military) have no sighters. IPSC long matches have no sighters. Military weapons quals have no sighters. Police quals have no sighters. Big game hunting has no sighters, or shouldn’t anyway. Combat has no sighters. I’ve “played” all those “games”. Some precision matches do have sighters. Some have unlimited sighters such as bench rest but I do not play that game. NMC allows 2 sighters at each range and small bore allows sighters. Let’s look at the ‘game” you play. You say the targets are the same locations and you know the range. You’ve shot the course how many times? So if we go shoot there just how many sighters have you had on each of those targets? No sighters….yeah right……typical gamesman BS.

10” target “easily hit at 300 yards”….question is can you do it offhand with a 9 lb or under rifle……if so then that’s great, the match is on at AS’s location as I described?

Larry Gibson

Well Larry, if your willing to make the drive, I'm willing to shoot with you, and I really don't care who shoots better. A fun afternoon shooting, day or two chasing antelope, and some liver and onions over the campfire? What more could you want?

lg,

You're right and I'm wrong.

rc

Quite frankly I don't think either of us is wrong. What you do works for you and what I do works for me. Neither is right nor wrong. The OP asked what we used, up to himm to find what works for him using his style of shooting. Only way he'll learn what works for him is to go shoot in the wind.

That sounds like a fun shoot and like you I really don'e care who wins. It would be fun and the possibility of a goat plus a little whiskey sounds good to me. Let's see if we can get it done.

Larry Gibson

Sound good.
As soon as Wyoming Game and Fish releases the information on exta tags I'm PM you guy with area's and camp locations. It should be some good fun!

I've seen on some of the other forums (African Big Game, New Zealand hunting) that they gather up AR members for a hunt.

Maybe we could do the same with the Long Range guys here and have a long range hunt up there especially if the tags are easy to get.

Thoughts?

It would be a lot easier to have an "AR Long Range Forum Target Shoot"

They set it up at Whittington about the first Sunday of every month... Have you heard of it?



Nah! Seems everyone is too scared to do either.

RC:

Your story about the wind coming in toward you but swirling around is interesting. I have often written that is the worst wind in the world to shoot in. One minute you have drift left, then a few seconds later you have drift right. A wind varying from 11 to 1 oclock will cause your deflection to vary from 1/2 full value left one minute to 1/2 full value right the next.

Now compare that with a wind from 8 to 10 o'clock. That wind would vary only .87 to full value. At long range, winds that are blowing from behind or toward you are much more difficult than cross winds. But if you believe what you read in most shooting mags, you can discount their effect. Not hardly.