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Target whether animal or actual paper target, range to target is determined to be very close to 600yds. Caliber is '06 w/ quality factory ammo of some 160/175gr bullet. Rifle is capable of sub moa accuracy. Wind speed appears to be some 12mph from firing position and is coming from 2 o'clock to 8 o'clock. How much windage would you apply to deal with this situation? Desired target impact area is some 8" in diameter. Even though the wind is still present, the mirage you were seeing has gone away. Should also mention that your rifle has a right hand twist. Curious as to what one of the ballistic programs some use would give for windage adjustment with the situation described above?? | |||
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I'm really glad you posted that big, spill your guts, tell-all post Larry. It tells me exactly where you are in long range shooting experience. In the games I play, there are no sighters whatsoever, just like hunting. There are no wind flags whatsoever, just like hunting. The size of the targets are 2 MOA, the size of the kill area of a big game animal, just like hunting.
You know the range in the games I play as well as when hunting because any hunter worth his salt has a rangefinder. It's an essential part of your equipment in long range shooting of any kind and even more essential when hunting a valued big or small game animal worthy of an accurate shot and clean kill. To suggest what you have shows inexperience, lack of knowledge of what we do and amateurism.
If it doesn't then taking the shot is unethical unless you have some knowledge of the distance from ranging objects in the area prior to spotting the animal and confidence in your wind reading experience.
Absolutely wrong in terms of windage. Again showing your lack of knowledge in the arena. At the SRM and Precision/tactical matches I would venture to say that 99% of competitors hold off for wind. At the precision matches, stages are designed to be shot at long range so that multiple targets must be engaged by using the reticle for accurate hold over as well. I actually won a stage at the last match engaging 4 targets from 300 to 440 yards putting one shot hits on each in 8 seconds.
Again with the inexperience or you just can't shoot. Wind drift at 300 yards in a 10 mph wind is about 4" with most big game rifles shooting bullets suited for long range. If you can't hit the kill area on a big game animal or even a prarie dog with a .224 cal pitifully BC'd varmint bullet, you need to get out more. Basically your post saved you a load of cash. If you were to come to the SRM with the skill set you have at this moment, you'd get your  Waxed | |||
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rcomuglia, I believe the other poster referring to long range match/target shooting is speaking of such shooting found NRA style matches 600-1000yds, Camp Perry,etc., not tactical, metal plate, style. He is correct that "hold off" is not a common practice for dealing with wind adjustment. One could use the hold off method if he were using a scope, but most are using "iron sights" and that makes it a bit more difficult to do. | |||
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You haven't given enough information for anyone to give an accurate answer _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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OK, what did I leave out?? I don't expect to know the temperature, pressure, etc., even though those and other things have an impact, but based on what was given for field application is there an estimate of windage required? You have the range, wind velocity, direction of wind, mirage issues, caliber w/ quality hunting ammunition, desired impact area but if there are other factors to be included can add. | |||
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There is quite a differnce between sea level and 10,000 ft of elevation, don't you think? _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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I know that LG's experience mainly lies with the type of shooting you're talking about and that's the point. Before a guy comes in here pretending to know everything about long range shooting, long range hunting, and long range target shooting designed to replicate long range hunting and starts  pontificating he should get the facts right. I have no problem running up the BS flag on most of his post. I can see dialing wind if you don't have the proper equipment ie. Proper reticle. With the proper reticle you can also range the target if you know its size. Deer have an 18" deep brisket and elk 24" in general. Notwithstanding, any long range shooter willing to and worth his salt has the best rangefinder he can afford. It's obvious from LG's post that he has as much to learn as any of us and more than some.  | |||
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Here is an example of a wind situation that many talk about. A head wind varying from 11 O'clock to 1 O'clock. I went out this AM to test some loads in differently sized brass. Some were with the brass that I have bumped the shoulders too much, some were with some once-fired 3/4 neck-sized only brass, and some were with some brand new out of the box brass. After being disappointed at 100 yard groups, I decided just to shoot some steel. The over-sized brass shot the best, but still not as well as development day. I dialed the 700 yard plate (14.75 MOA) and held just off of the plate to the left for the wind that was from 11 O'clock. It was a good call with a nice center hit on the plate. I shot 3 more rounds while the conditions were constant and shot a great 4 shot group on the plate.  I drove up to take the picture and let the barrel cool. When I got back to the bench, I decided to hammer it some more. The wind seemed to be the same. I used the same hold and the bullet missed the plate left right where the crosshair was. The wind had shifted to dead straight at me from 12 O'clock. It was tough to perceive the minute change in direction. I held center plate and made a hit a little lower. Tried another and the bullet impacted left with a dead center hold on the plate. The wind had shifted again slightly to orinating at 1 O'clock. I held right of the plate for the next 3 shots and made good hits. This type of wind is tough to call and can shift slightly very quickly making your off the plate hold one way or another result in a miss. A wind more at 90 degrees seems easier to call. At least your crosshair will be on one side of the plate all of the time. The pics through the scope are cool and here's what it looked like. You can even see the hits in the center of the plate.  | |||
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rcamuglia Nice pictures of targets and a discussion of the "games" you play. Problem is they are not hunting. I have competed in numerous "games" and know the difference between a game and reality. Apparently you do not. You know nothing of me or my experience hunting or target shooting. You say 4" of 10 mph wind drift at 300 yards? that is probable with a very small iota of the hunting rifles used in actual hunting, not games. double that is more realistic. Also you don't much know about the heart/lung area on deer, antelope, sheep, caribou, elk etc because it is somewhat larger than 2 moa. You are obviously skilled at shotgunning and a game or two at Whittington. However your responses show a very arrogant attitude toward anyone who offers another opinion or experience. The OP asked for our opinions and what we held for. He did not ask for a "right" answer. Now we all are very aware that all your answers are the "right" ones because you tell us so. Pretty arrogant of you, just like many other "gamesmen" I've seen in most shooting "games". I've killed a lot of big game (white tail deer, blacktail deer, mule deer, rocky mountain bighorn, caribou, bear, a few exotics and elk) over the years. I've hunted from dense tropical rain forrest to wide open prairies and made shots from 25 to 600+ yards on big game. Much of it was back before we had range finders. My opinion to the OP was based on my experience. Certainly not up to yours obviously but still what i do which is what the OP asked for. You have a nice day. Larry Gibson | |||
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BTW, my offer to meet with you on neutral ground and shoot a realistic match from 800 (farther if you want) to 100 yards using various positions is still open. Larry Gibson | |||
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Well Larry, I don't know if the qualified as "Hunting", but it certainly qualifies as Experience. | |||
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.243 95 grain Nosler BT at 3250 has 5.6" wind drift .264 140 grain Sierra GameKing at 3200 has 4.5" wind drift (my .264 WM) 7mm 160 grain Sierra GameKing at 3100 has 5.1" wind drift .308 200 grain GameKing out of my .300 WM at 2900 has 4.5" of wind drift
Hmmm...yeah, a "small iota" 
I just hate to see "wrong" information given to someone looking for the "right" answer. It's kinda what these forums are about and especially this new Long Range Shooting Forum.
You're right!.....EXCEPT if you are shooting at it at 500 yards or MORE. You DO understand this basic about MOA, don't you?
then...
Quite contradictory, don't you think?   | |||
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I know a place in Wyoming where we could set it up. At the right time of year, we might even be able to shoot some antelope after the fact. | |||
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I'm in! | |||
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Not contradictory at all. I gave varying scenarios for each method used. I am not so arragant to think one answer fits all situations like you do. My offer of a that shooting match is still open. Larry Gibson | |||
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