oops, I forgot, you want a short action. A 308 then. If you're real sensitive about recoil, stat with a light bullet and then work your way up to what ever you will be hunting with. My son has killed 3 bull elk using a 308 with 165 gr. fusion bullets. The right 308 can be pretty accurate at long distance. Good luck with your build.

I would look long and hard at the 6.5 Creedmoor,I have a Hawkeye and really enjoy pulling the trigger on it and I have not even started to handload for it yet.

Go the 308! I have a Remington BDL with timber stock and had it for 14 years. very light but accurate rifle which I have been using for 400-500m shots at medium size game (feral goats). Very accurate and low recoil!

ddj,

Ok, here we go.

Lots of practice = no barrel burners. Besides, once you learn to smack stuff way out there, it becomes really fun and you want to keep doing it over and over.

Keeping recoil down means a combination of keeping bullet wait down, velocity down and/or rifle weight up. A decent LR rifle that is light enough to carry might be about 12 lb or less but heavy enough to maintain accuracy over heavier shot strings, which in all likely hood should not happen with a purpose built hunting rifle. I worry about 30 cal bullets that have enough BC to buck wind very well may be heavy enough to bring your flinch back. I think 24 and 25 cal bullets, though, have obviously taken elk at long range, are more a specialist item.

I'd say your range of bullets starts at 26, 27 and 28 cal. The 140 6.5mm's have great BC's and enough umph to take down an elk at 600. The 27's are, imho, overlooked. Their are lots of great 27 cal bullets that combined in a short action cartridge, would perform very well for you; something such as a 270/308 or the improved version. Then theirs the 28 calibers. Lots of good bullet choices there but caution should be advised so you don't get up into 30 cal bullet weight territory otherwise the flinch might return.

Now we might want to look at brass. One brand. Lapua! Let me say it again. LAPUA! Yes, it's costly but you know you get great brass that will pay back consistency dividends in spades. Looking at the Lapua brass that is available in your chosen short action.....

6.5x47 Lapua (my favorite)
260 Rem
6.5x55
6.5x284
308

The 6.5x47 is perfect just the way it comes.

The 260 Rem case can be run as is or AI'd.

The 6.5x55 case can be run straight, AI'd or SKAN. Problem here is it can be run in a short action but with TONS of issues.

6.5x284 case. Same issue in a short action. Probably best used in a long action. Can be necked up to 284 Win. Yes, you can get the brass as Win brass but the issues of Win come with it. Neck up! Again, short action issues.

The 308 case. Well, the 260 we already discussed. A 270/308 or 270/308 Improved 40 deg are good yet unusual choices. Might be a great discussion around the campfire. Forget resell value. Then to cover the 28 cal bullets, we have 7mm/08 straight and AI'd with either 30 or 40 deg shoulder.

Any of these, 26, 27 and 28 cal bullets, can be run easily enough to meet your criteria at 600 and beyond in certain circumstances.

Not sure of your current recoil tolerance but these are some of my suggestions.

The 6.5x47, has zero issues with mag length and seating depth. Even after my barrel burned out .080" throat in conjunction with chasing the lands (I seat .010" in to the lands), I'm just shy of 2.8" OAL. The throat has quit lengthening over the last 400 rds. I have 1100+ on it now and I just won the Utah State Sniper Shoot with it yesterday. My target load runs 2820-2850 with the 130 Berger VLD. In my "light" hunting 6.5x47, I run the 140 Berger VLD to 2920 with Rel 17 and get 1/2 MOA out to 1000 yds. I run the 140 Partition to 2860 fps. That bullet, at that speed, will easily drop an elk to 600+.

What ever you choose, good luck. You asked, you got my opinion.

Alan

quote:

I just won the Utah State Sniper Shoot with it yesterday.

Congratulations Alan!

quote:

Originally posted by rcamulia:

quote:

I just won the Utah State Sniper Shoot with it yesterday.

Congratulations Alan!

Rick,

Thanks very much. Surprised the heck out of me

Clint, the director, took some home footage and posted it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29PFxJ1-9gk

Alan

Yes, well done Alan.

Also good advise there.

Whilst I haven't owned any 6.5's (not that easy to licence a bunch of rifles here anymore), on paper they are where I'd look.

I do own a 270 Win as well, but even with the Berger VLD they are lacking in BC. The 135 SMK seems to be the best velocity / BC trade off to me. That said I prefer the VLD's on game.

I'd second any of your suggestions in 6.5mm or 7mm. I'd maybe add the .284 Win in standard form with a 168gr plus bullet.

ARWL,

I have a Rem 700 LA sitting around attached to a 30-06AI barrel and was thinking about rebarrelling to a 270 Win. Hadn't really payed much attention to the Berger VLD's until now. You're right, BC's not that great in 270. Shocked the heck out of me.

Alan

When it comes to recoil, how much does stock design have to do with felt recoil. I have shot a ruger standard in 300 win mag and it kicked quite a bit. A rem 721 in 300 H&H , again more recoil than I like, but shot a rem700 in 300 RUM and the recoil was a lot lighter than I thought it would be. All these rounds were 180 -200 gr. bullets. Maybe the right stock will help him more than the caliber choice. Any thoughts?

A muzzle brake will help more than anything, including caliber and stock.

The .264 Win Mag at the top of this page is braked and so is my .300 Win Mag target gun. You can watch bullets impact your target through the scope.

The 260 would be my choice if I was looking for a low-recoil, long distance rifle. My buddy has one with a heavy barrel and it is low recoil, low muzzle blast and is a killing machine. The 140-grain bullets have great ballistics.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamulia:
A muzzle brake will help more than anything, including caliber and stock.

I agree.

I just came back from re-working some of my 7mm WSM loads after having a brake installed.
139 grain @ 3210fps, 162 grain @ 3100fps and 180 grain @ 2950fps.
It's a night and day difference in felt recoil. Louder? Yes, but not unmanageable with good ear protection. I shot 40 rounds and my shoulder couldn't tell and I kept my sight picture out to 610 yards off a bipod.

I'd say 7mm 120-140gr bullets in a RSAUM or WSM in a short action will do the job with a brake. Of course brakes work better with more powder. Smaller case capacities will not reap as much benefit as larger ones.

I use to go to a casual 600 and 1000 yd competition shoot locally... there was the usual "incrowd" who had more invested in their rifle and scope than the beat cars they showed up with...

however they use to curse the existence of a shop teacher, who came 2 or three times a year and that's it...

however he had a 6BR with a 1 in 8 twist, he made in his school shop... with 107 grain Sierras and 115 grain Bergers he use to clean the clock of all the regular incrowd guys, on a consistent basis...

they also hated some Eskimo kid who would come with his dad, but didn't always compete... when he did, he also walked off with top honors...

not only hating the kid for winning, when he chose to register... they hated him for the equipment he used...

a factory cheap with synthetic stock Savage, chambered in 260 Rem...he got on close out for $200.00 but topped it with a Tasco 4 x 16 World Class Scope that set him back $69.00 and he topped with a $25 after market Turret...

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
I use to go to a casual 600 and 1000 yd competition shoot locally... there was the usual "incrowd" who had more invested in their rifle and scope than the beat cars they showed up with...

however they use to curse the existence of a shop teacher, who came 2 or three times a year and that's it...

however he had a 6BR with a 1 in 8 twist, he made in his school shop... with 107 grain Sierras and 115 grain Bergers he use to clean the clock of all the regular incrowd guys, on a consistent basis...

/"they also hated some Eskimo kid who would come with his dad, but didn't always compete... when he did, he also walked off with top honors...

not only hating the kid for winning, when he chose to register... they hated him for the equipment he used...

a factory cheap with synthetic stock Savage, chambered in 260 Rem...he got on close out for $200.00 but topped it with a Tasco 4 x 16 World Class Scope that set him back $69.00 and he topped with a $25 after market Turret.../

Gotta love it when that happens.

I like the 6.5x47 case but only for the idea to neck it down to 25 for a precision version of the 250-3000 Savage or to 6mm for a low recoil 1000 yard tack driver.