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Originally posted by Doug Turnbull:
One of the real issues in the 50-110 is the bullets that are out there and how to make it feed in an 86 or 71. The wide meplats that every one likes really adds to the feeding issue thru the loading gate. The 50 alaskan will do everything you neeed and is shorter and better to load with smokeless powder.

As for not wanting it put into an original gun the 50 aslaskan will go in and shoot just fine in the original guns yet the pressures are to high for a non nickle steel barrel. The weak link in the 86 is so many of the old non-nickel steel guns and the Marlin is the thin web in the barrel and the magazine channel. The Marlin is thought to be a stronger gun but they are made of modern steel in the barrel as the Win 86 had most of them made of the non-nickle steel barrels. The Marlin threads are smaller than the Winchester. It is the barrel issue not the action issue that we are running into. Teh Marlin was made for 2.550" as the Winchester is mde for about 2.800 and then you are subject to the bullet that you use, will it feed thru the loading gate and make the turn into the magazine.

As for the Winchester 71 it does not have the "S" hook to pull the cartridge into the carrier and that starts to limit the minimum COAL to about 2.650" if shorter than that you MIGHT have cartridge flip out as the carrier comes up to feed the next round into the chamber. I like to have the cartridge to be about 2.700" long to eliminate this issue.

I have taken the 1886 and because of the "S" hook it has fed the 500 Limbaugh rounds just fine with out any cartridge flip. I ran them thru a 50-110 and 50 alaskan that we had to see if it would work and it seemed to just fine.

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Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
Guys, I'm getting 2060 fps out of a 535 grain woodleigh and almost 2600 fps out of a 300 grain. You will get more with the larger case capacity of the larger rounds. How much more do you think you would need? My gun can be a handful now.
As a note though, my gun is a 26 inch barrel not one of the 16 or 18 inch shorties that are popular now.

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Originally posted by Extremist458:
Boomy Sticky, I like the idea, but trying to justify it in my head. If the 50-110 is a good cartridge for the 1886 and 71, and is more powerful, then why not just stick with it. And using 2.3" brass in a 2.4" chamber wouldn't harm anything or be a new cartridge, but would allow us to keep the nestalgia of this old dog. The pressure issue will always be there, and I still worry about a high pressure 500 in a 50-110 because the cup n' core bullets would still obturate at those pressures and although it would be less then it would in the intended gun, it could still have the potential for damage to an antique.

We could always follow the way of the 45-70 with Buffalo Bore and Garrett offering potent loads, and leaving the top shelf stuff up to us handloaders, but I must give credit to Mic for creating that 510KE! Even if we did a 500KE, we would still want the slight shoulder (though I doubt any real ballistic advantage is offered) it is still more powerful and will prevent chambering in the older guns. It just seems we have to be as practical as possible here and work out all the details before we proceed...now when it comes to that 2.3" 458, I'm all for it. I am reworking the design right now for a 500 grain version, but it will be pretty short, like .8" long! I will be reducing the meplat some and streamlining it so it can be a better medium range bullet or so, and this will allow me to keep the bullet long enough to seat properly. I will then work out the ballistics with Mike, the friend of mine from ABS barrels. Will get you and answer soon.

quote:

Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
Guys, I'm getting 2060 fps out of a 535 grain woodleigh and almost 2600 fps out of a 300 grain. You will get more with the larger case capacity of the larger rounds. How much more do you think you would need? My gun can be a handful now.
As a note though, my gun is a 26 inch barrel not one of the 16 or 18 inch shorties that are popular now.

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Originally posted by Doug Turnbull:
If I was doing custom loading for the 45-70 I would take the bullet I want and figure the crimp to nose on the bullet and make the COAL length of a 45-90 case match your needs with the OAL be 2.750" or so. With this you can get the most of the case capacity and volume to use the best paowder to keep the pressures at a minimun but the velocity at a maximum for what you want to do. Doing this even thou you are using 45-90 cases use the 45-70 reloading dies to do your loading and crimp as the 45-90 dies may be to short.

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Originally posted by Doug Turnbull:
There are about three of the 348 improved loads.
one has a .490 shoulder or a blown out 348 the next is the .535 dhoulder and 40 degree this is the ackley imoroved 40 degree and wiht this you need to do more action modifications to get them to feed thru the loading gate.
The 348 blown out to 45 cal is like a 470 or 475 Turnbull depending on the shoulder diamater. Winchester actually made this round in 1912 and they had a 350 gr at 2500FPS? but they did not have a bullet that would hold together at those velocity so they made the 33 and then the 348.

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It would be of great interest to the lever crowd to see the pics and info. Can you post it? Thanks!