The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Lever Action Rifles Poll: Which one should I get?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Poll: Which one should I get? | Login/Join |
One of Us |
_______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | ||
|
| One of Us |
I've also been wondering something else. Will the .45-70 eject cartridges more reliably than the .450 Marlin because of the rim? Is it easier for the .450 to jam because of it being a belted cartridge? Anybody have any info on this? _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
|
| one of us |
Eland slayer I did not vote, but here is my answer. I would prefer the 45/70 to the 450 Marlin. There are many more loads avialable for the 45/70. I had a 22" bbled 1895 Marlin once. My brother has a 45/70 Guide Gun[ blue]. His Guide gun shoots better than my longer bbled Marlin did. It is a very good hunting rifle. You should get the one you like the best, blue or stainles. Remember you can always paint the stainless if you think it is too shiny. Krylon paint works very well. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
|
| One of Us |
To put it as simply as possible.... IF you handload ammunition get the 45-70. If you stick strictly to factory stuff from Fedremchester get the 450MArlin. If you don't handload but have access to Buffalo Bore brand ammo then get the 45-70. Mainly the 450Marlin is a "+P" 45-70 for people who can't roll their own. AllanD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
|
| One of Us |
I guess I should have stated that in the info above. I do NOT handload. I am starting college in August and I'm sure most of you can appreciate the fact that I don't have the time or a place to reload. Thanks Allan _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
|
One of Us |
I must admit that I am a Marlin Guide gun fan. And, for me, the 45-70 is the way to go. I reload, but have also used Garrett cartridges and they work well if you do not re load. Mine is blued, but the stainless version has great appeal. If I get to Argentina this fall that's the rifle that is going with. "When you play, play hard; when you work, don't play at all." Theodore Roosevelt | |||
|
| One of Us |
A lot of help ya'll are  So far, I've only got 3 votes, one for each so I'm at 33% on all my choices. Great! Just great! _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
|
| one of us |
I'd stick with the 45-70, but if your going to college, the BB and Garret ammo will break the bank in a hurry. For the cost of a couple boxes, you could have a good start to reloading your own.  Everyday I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've stayed alive. | |||
|
One of Us |
45-70 stainless guide  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
put on the xs peep sight and ramp front sight, a scout scope and a aimpoint red dot system is cool to. get the new one with the 3x magnifier attachment. also look into the wild west guns ejector and glove lever loop. oh yeah the kick-ease recoil pad. if you like +p ammo for cheap get the pmc 350 gr +p ammo. a buck a pop most importantly have fun and join the "we band of 45-70ers" 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
Anybody have any idea why Marlin doesn't make the .450 Marlin in a stainless guide gun? Besides the simple fact that they don't sell as many .450's as .45-70's? _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
|
| one of us |
My vote is for the 45-70, preferably with the 22" barrel, but that's me. No problem with the Guide Gun, I just like the feel and hang of the longer barrel. I have issues with the .450 Marlin. Stems from me being an old fart I guess, but many years ago, Frank Barnes brought out a wildcat round called the .458x2" Magnum. It was his solution to getting a more powerful 45-70 load that would work in a bolt action rifle. here is where my bitch comes in. When Hornady developed the load for Marlin, they used a wider belt than is standard on most belted magnums. This prevent one from buying cheaper .458 Win. Mag. brass and trimming it to the 2.1" of the .450 Marlin, thus FORCING you to buy their ammo and brass. JMHO, but this is a pretty chickenshit deal.I called them and asked about it, and got a whole line of bullshit about how the wider belt makes the brass strong enough for a lever action. I've been shooting, reloading both for personal use and commercially for a while, worked for a gunsmith until he died and will admit, I don't know it all, but I do recognize bullshit when I hear it. I lost a lot of respect for Hornady after all that. Anyway, by handloading, I can make my 95 Marlin do anything the .450 can do, and do it for a lot less money. Just get the 45-70, shoot what factory ammo you can afford and save the brass. Scrounge the gun shows and I'll bet you can find reloading tools for a lot less money than new. Same thing with the dies to reload the round. Just be careful to examine the inside of the sizing die to be sure it isn't all scratched up. Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter. Paul B. | |||
|
| one of us |
Eland Slayer There are many more different factory loads avialable for the 45/70. I think the 45/70 is the best choice IF you reload or if you DON'T reload. The factory loads will not break the bank and they are fine for deer and pigs. I would use a 350 gr load from, Superior with the Norht Fork bullet [first choice] or loads from Cor-Bon, PMC or Buffalo Bore for black bear, elk, etc. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
|
One of Us |
I used a 22 in. 450 Marlin / 300 gr. Nosler @ 2230 fps / and took 2 wart hogs , 1 waterbuck and 1 baboon and amazingly none of the bullets bounced off !!!!! Guess which one I voted for. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I voted for the blue 45/70 as that is what I chose back in '98, but these days Marlin's XLR http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/xlr/1895XLR.aspx might be a better choice for you, especially since you want stainless. The XLR comes with a gray laminate stock instead of the mismatched brown laminate on the Guide Guns. It seems to come with a good recoil pad unlike the truck tire the factory bolts on to the Guide Guns. If the XLR proves too long you could always have it shortened, even to 16 inches creating a gun that is perceptibly handier than the 18-1/2 inch Guide Guns. I would not make too much of the powerful loads made for the 45/70 by the boutique manufacturers as deer fall over just fine to the 405 @ 1200 factory soft. If you want to flatten the trajectory a little you can use the 300 @ 1700. My Guide Gun "Mjolnir" really likes the Winchester factory load using the 300 grain Nosler Partition. Unless you are fighting grizzlies I'm not sure there's much call for starting a 400 @ 2000 from a seven pound rifle. Me, if I were shopping for a Marlin today, I'd probably get the 1895 Cowboy. In my estimation the 450 Marlin cartridge with its 350 @ 2100 (or so from the short barrel) too much of a good thing for any game smaller than moose. I predict an early demise unless at least one manufacturer offers a 250-300 @ 1800 "deer load". | |||
|
| One of Us |
A 458x2inch wildcat with a conventional belt fits in the chamber of 300 Wby, 8mm Rem Mag, and 340 Wby creating the recipe for a hand grenade. There are other solutions that might have been more fun but the double wide belt solved the problem neatly enough. | |||
|
| One of Us |
nordrseta, Thanks for the suggestion. The new guide guns don't have laminated stocks, does yours? The new ones have American Walnut stocks. I am definitely going to put a Limbsaver recoil pad on it when I get it. I don't think I'm all that interested in the XLR. I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up getting the stainless guide gun in .45-70. I'm sure the 405 gr. @ 1200 fps works ok on deer but I'll probably be shooting 10 times as many hogs as deer and some will be whoppers (300-400 lbs). I think the PMC 350 gr. @ 2,025 fps will do great. I'm not that recoil sensitive and with the Limbsaver, it shouldn't bother me. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
|
| One of Us |
 that load almost made the buffalo extinct... for deer a lighter expanding round will be better. pmc's will do juuuuust fine 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
My mistake. My Guide Gun has the plain walnut stock and so does the 1895GS. Must be wishful thinking; a gun that will see hard use makes more sense stocked in Rutland laminate. To my eye a stainless rifle looks better stocked in gray than in brown. The Limbsaver pad lives up to its moniker on a Guide Gun. The traditional 405 will probably be even better for hogs than deer, but I expect the PMC load will kill fine too.  | |||
|
| One of Us |
I own a blued 45/70 marlin but if the gs had of been out I'd have bought that. | |||
|
| one of us |
I've had my Guide Gun since 2000 when they first came out and have been very pleased with it. Mine's a .450 and it's a great round, but I reload and am not concerned about availability of factory ammo. For your needs I'd say go with the 45-70 and go stainless, it'll be a rifle you can carry and use and then pass on to your grandkids... .22 LR Ruger M77/22 30-06 Ruger M77/MkII .375 H&H Ruger RSM | |||
|
One of Us |
I have a blue Guide gun in 45-70. I got it about 6 years ago and if they made it in stainless back then I would of bought it. I love the gun. If you reload or are willing to buy premium ammo the 45-70 is the way to go. REMEMBER THE ONLY REASON MARLIN AND HORNADY MADE THE 450 IS SO SOME JACKOFF WOULDNOT PUT A HOT ROUND INTO AN OLD TRAPDOOR RIFLE AND KILL HIMSELF AND HAVE HIS WIFE SUE THEM. There is no balistic advantage to the 450 Marlin over modern 45-70 ammo. They put a belt on it so it can only be loaded int new guns. | |||
|
| One of Us |
On second thought Eland Slayer, I just noticed that you are in Texas. Stainless is probably not as important to you as it is to me up here in Maine where you can watch your gun rust in one day. | |||
|
| One of Us |
i say dont limit yerself...go stainless! 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| new member |
Another option to consider is the Browning BLR chambered in 450 Marlin. It is produced in both stainless and blue with a pistol grip and only blue in a straight stock. I just picked up a blued 450 Marlin with a pistol grip and it is a beauty. Sorry I did not vote, probably because I like them all and would have to vote for all three. Now only if I could aford all three. Regards Conrad | |||
|
| new member |
I would like to see the .450 Marlin in a stainless Guide Gun with black synthetic stock. Probably I have to buy a .450 XLR and cut the barrel to 18.5" or 20". --- Tom | |||
|
| one of us |
I voted Guide gun in stainless, but then that's what I bought  If you reload you can soup-up the 45-70 to almost 450 Marlin speeds in the 1895 lever action. I'm tall (6'3'') so I had to add a spacer and thicker recoil pad to keep the gun from putting my thumb up my nose when I fired it though  As Marlin for some reason figured the LOP should match the barrel length. But it is a fun gun to shoot.DRSS member Constant change is here to stay. | |||
|
| new member |
Yes, but: - by loading the .45-70 to almost the same potential as the .450 Marlin you will exceed the max. SAAMI pressure level the cartridge and the gun is designed for. - by using higher than approved loads, Marlin cannot be held responsible for any damage that might occur to the gun. - if someone gets injured or even worse gets killed as a result of a gun failure due to exceeding the manufacturer’s specs, you will get in serious trouble. You see the .45-70 can never do what a .450 Marlin can do, if you take other aspects than velocity and energy into account. That’s why Marlin created a new cartridge and reinforced the 1895M by giving it a special heat treatment and using square barrel threads. Having the choice, I would always opt for the better. --- Tom | |||
|
One of Us |
So you gotta clean your rifle and wipe it down with an oily cloth. Why is that a problem?  | |||
|
One of Us |
Mine (45-70) can smoke any 450 M guide gun, then again it has a 32" bbl.. Get the cowboy 45-70, thats my vote. Authentic old school style, absorbs recoil better, more velocity potential. Great rifles. I never did understand the stubby bbl with a brake concept. Gag! Puke! Ralph!  Whatever you choose, enjoy.. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Check out www.marlinowners.com for more opinions. Go to "Forums" > "big bore rifles" I have a blued 22" ballard rifled 45-70. I'm never selling it. It's the perfect blend of being compact and not too long. It looks great, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have a new Weaver K2.5 on it. It has 4.0" of eye relief, and is very crisp, and bright with excellent edge to edge sharpness. For the options you presented, I'd vote for the blued 45-70 guide gun first, then the stainless 45-70 second. Blued (ok, blackened) steel looks better with walnut than stainlesss-my opinion. The 45-70 has been around since 1873. It will be around in 2073. It's a classic cartridge. I DON'T like the porting on the guide gun. Too much blast. Pain to clean. I think they are available without porting now. My Marlin 1895 45-70 shoots 300, 350 and ~400 grain bullets into "just over" MOA groups. It is certain and "easy 1.5 MOA" shooter. One consideration. If you are going to hunt in cold weather, the rounded lever of the pistol gripped 22" barrel model has more room in it than the squared of lever loop of the guide gun. | |||
|
one of us |
Do people really think like this? The SAAMI pressure specification for the 45-70, like all cartridges, is partially based on the weakest firearms in circulation that the round might be used in. That is not the Marlin 1895. The Marlin 1895 was not designed for SAAMI 45-70 pressures and Winchester 45-70 brass has been tested to 70,000 PSI without failure. It is well established in the literature that the safe operating pressure of the Marlin 1895 45-70 is 40,000 CUP. Marlin says they will not be responsible for damage to their rifles if you use any non-standard ammunition or handloads, even if they are within SAAMI specs. When loaded to their potential in Marlin lever guns the 450 Marlin and 45-70 are virtual ballistic equivalents. The 45-70 has more case capacity than the 450 Marlin. While the 1895M/MR does have square barrel threads (probably for production management purposes more than anything), it is a myth that the 1895M/MR has special heat treating. Even Marlin and Hornady state that the 450 Marlin was created to produce a cartridge that would equal the potential of the 45-70 in a Marlin lever gun while not being able to be chambered in older, weaker 45-70 rifles and magnum cartridge chambers. Tom, I believe what you have written is a load of bull. Paul B, I can see why Hornady and Marlin did not want to produce a short 45 caliber cartridge that could possibly be chambered in a 300 Winchester Magnum. You learn something new everyday whether you want to or not. | |||
|
One of Us |
I have 3 marlin 45-70's and have to say what do you like and how do you hunt. If if thick brush the Guide gun wins hands down. It's the quickest pointing of all. Mine is a first year model with porter barrel and muzzle blast is awsome. Touch it off ad dusk and fire goes everywhere. also have a cowboy model, to light, and a standard 1895 that just feels good. It still stomps you but not as bad as the others. Take what appeals to you and enjoy. Jeff JJK | |||
|
| new member |
@Jackfish I` ve read Your posts on the Marlinowner’s forum and I know Your opinion about the .450 Marlin and Your strong belief that the 1895G /GS is the same tough gun as the 1895M/MR that can handle an MAR of more than 40.000 psi. I called Marlin and they confirmed that the 1895 M /MR receive that special heat treatment to reinforce the receivers. As long as Marlin does not clearly certify the 1895G /GS for being able to handle the pressures you think the gun is good for ( I know they won’t do it, because the are a member of SAAMI) I wouldn’t recommend the use of others than SAAMI approved loads in that gun. I own both the 1895G and the 1895M. Since I bought the 1895M I do not longer care about all the guesswork what a .45-70 might be able to do. Now I have a gun that can handle a MAP of 43.500 psi with the manufacturer’s obligation to guarantee that. The .450 Marlin is much more accurate than the .45-70 and because I reload, I don’t care for the availability of factory loads. Give me a sound reason why I should settle for less. --- Tom | |||
|
| one of us |
Well, then you would be at odds with Hornady, Hodgdon, Barnes, Mic McPherson, Ken Waters, Paul Matthews, Frank C. Barnes, Buffalo Bore, Garretts, PMC and Marlin before they got all lawyered up in the late 1980s. And you are right, the only reason Marlin supports the SAAMI pressure specification of 28,000 PSI for the Marlin 1895 is that they are a member of SAAMI. It is common knowledge that the safe operating pressure of the Marlin 1895 45-70 is 40,000 CUP. Which is virtually equivalent to the 43,500 PSI standard for the 450 Marlin. The 45-70 yields about 42,732 PSI at 40,000 CUP and it has a slightly larger area inside the case interfacing the breech bolt. So the 45-70 at 40,000 CUP exterts approximately the same bolt thrust as the 450 Marlin at 43,500 PSI and the 444 Marlin at 44,000 CUP. The Hornady 350 grain 450 Marlin load only comes in at 42,000 PSI. Marlin is so afraid of its lawyers that they are telling people that the 1895M/MR receivers get additional heat treating to perpetuate their recent SAAMI stance on the Marlin 1895 45-70. Why would they give the Marlin 336/444/1895 receiver special heat treating when it doesn't need it to accommodate the 43,500 PSI of the 450 Marlin? Even recognized by Hornady and Marlin when they admitted that the 450 Marlin was created to produce a cartridge that would equal the potential of the 45-70 in a Marlin lever gun while not being able to be chambered in older, weaker 45-70 rifles and magnum cartridge chambers. There is no "guesswork" as to what the Marlin 1895 45-70 can be loaded to, as I said it is common knowledge. I never asked you to settle for what you think is less, I just am questioning your flawed analysis of the situation. I hope you enjoy your 1895M for the same amount of time I have enjoyed my Marlin 1895 45-70; 29 years of loads that exceed SAAMI pressure specs. Stop spreading lies. You learn something new everyday whether you want to or not. | |||
|
| new member |
!!!!!
Thank You! I do enjoy the 1895M. I enjoy it even more than I enjoyed my .45-70 years ago, because it's much more accurate. Buy a 1895M Marlin if you can afford one and I'm sure your .45-70 ranks a poor second on the list of your favourite rifles. --- Tom | |||
|
| one of us |
Whatever. You learn something new everyday whether you want to or not. | |||
|
One of Us |
The 450 Marlin is going to be a short lived factory cartridge, mark my words. It doesn't sell. Get a stainless 45-70. You can load it as hot as the 450 and brass is cheap. You can borrow money, but you can't borrow time. Don't wait, go now. Savannah Safaris Namibia Otjitambi Trails & Safaris DRSS NRA SCI DSC TSRA TMPA | |||
|
| new member |
Mark my words! The .450 Marlin is here to stay, and increasing popularity of the .450 Marlin makes the ancient .45-70 obsolete in the near future. The .45-70 isn’t the Holy Grail and outside the US this cartridge is almost meaningless. I wouldn’t be surprised if Marlin ceases that caliber in 2010, to celebrate the successor’s 10th anniversary - The .450 Marlin. --- Tom | |||
|
| new member |
| |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Lever Action Rifles Poll: Which one should I get?
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia