You're dreaming. Its your words that are meaningless. Marlin makes 5 rifles in 45-70 and only 2 in 450 Marlin. There are at least another dozen 45-70 rifles made by other manufacturers. The 45-70 is Marlin's best selling big bore. The 133 year old cartridge has a legacy and momentum in the marketplace that the 450 Marlin is unlikely to surplant.

It is interesting instead of presenting substantive information that counters what others assert, you offer nothing but wild-assed speculation and misguided aspirations.

I just checked on line and the midway usa master catalog for 3 calibers of ammunition. 444 : hornaday,grizzly ,remington & buffalo bore; 450 marlin: hornaday and buffalo bore; 45-70: ultra max,lancer,pmc,federal,remington,grizzly,buffalo bore,garrett cartridges,black hills,winchester.So with this brief survey the most popular caliber is the 45-70,next 444 and 3rd 450 marlin.Sure isn't a lot of ammo choices for the 450 marlin and I doubt that ammo would be easy to locate in out of the way towns in hunting areas.

ElandSlayer,

you can get a Lyman Tong Tool for the 45-70 and load to your hearts content, in the same manner the hide hunters did 130 years ago, and just as accurately.

Rich

Tom,

if you are a betting man I would like a piece of that action. More likely the 450 will be dropped in two or three years. Folks like you buried the 45-70 a hundred years ago, and eighty years ago, and 60 years ago, and 40 years ago, and it is still in the top twenty in reloading dies sales every year. Anybody smart enough to take a look at the 45-70 VS 450M knows that they share the same basic dimensions and powder volume data, and the 45-70 doesn't need Hornady brass to reload it. Hornady themselves will tell you it is to keep hot loaded 45-70 rounds out of trapdoors. The 45-70 will be cruising along long after you and I have been "recalled".



Rich

Rich,

I don’t want to bury the .45-70.

I have a Marlin 1895 in .45-70 and I still love it. But I don’t deny that the .450 Marlin has some advantages over the .45-70. If you only regard the US market and if you believe that the Marlin 1895 can digest 40.000 psi loads, it might be hard to see the need for cartridge like the .450 Marlin. Looking to the rest of the word you find things to be different there. I’m living in Germany where the .45-70 is only available as factory loads that don’t exceed the SAAMI/CIP pressure levels. With this amount of energy the .45-70 is not a legal hunting cartridge for the bigger European game like Red Stack or Wild Boar. I do reload for 25 years and could easily roll my own heavy rounds, but reloading a cartridge above CIP pressure levels is illegal in Europe and by doing so you stand to lose your privileges to posses guns. That’s why Garrett’s or Buffalo Bore ammo is not available to us, hence the invention of the .450 Marlin was a blessing for the European shooters who like to carry their leverguns for hunting.
I hope you now understand why I can only vote for the .450 Marlin when it come to hunting with a levergun.
Wish the .450 Marlin will live forever along with the .45-70.

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Tom

What idiot decided that the 45-70 loaded to 31,908 PSI was inadequate for Red Stag and Wild Boar? Live free man, come to the States!

quote:

What idiot decided that the 45-70 loaded to 31,908 PSI was inadequate for Red Stag and Wild Boar?

I don't know for sure, and it is ridiculous. But it's the law! To hunt Red Stag and Wild Boar in Germany, you have to have a gun with a cartridge that delivers at least 1.550 ft-lbs to the target at a distance of 100 yards.
I don’t go that far to call all German law makers “idiots†but when it comes to private firearms they all get crazy.

quote:

Live free man, come to the States!

I live free in Germany!
I'm a wealthy man and I have been to the States many times. I have a lot of good friends there. My family recently asked me to buy a house in Florida because they like the beaches and the sunny weather, but I’m not ready to leave my country – not yet.

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Tom

Ha! The 45-70 will easily do that with a 28,000 CUP up to a CIP load. So what are you talking about? The 45-70 easily meets that threshold.

Marlin 1895 45-70 22" barrel
300 grain Speer seated to 2.53" and crimped with a Lee Factory Crimp Die
Winchester brass, 2.1" trim
CCI 200 primers
55 grains H4198, 28,000 CUP
Indices Range
Range - yds. 0 50 100 150 200
Velocity - ft./sec. 2170 1982 1803 1635 1483
Energy - ft.-lbs. 3136 2615 2165 1781 1465
Path - in. -1.5 1.9 3.0 1.4 -3.4


Marlin 1895 45-70 22" barrel
350 grain Hornady FP seated to 2.54" and crimped with a Lee Factory Crimp Die
Winchester brass, 2.1" trim
CCI 200 primers
60 grains compressed VARGET, 29,500 CUP
Indices Range
Range - yds. 0 50 100 150 200
Velocity - ft./sec. 1960 1773 1599 1442 1304
Energy - ft.-lbs. 2985 2443 1986 1616 1321
Path - in. -1.5 2.1 2.9 0.3 -6.5

Marlin 1895 45-70 22" barrel
400 grain Speer FP seated to 2.54" and crimped with a Lee Factory Crimp Die
Winchester brass, 2.1" trim
CCI 200 primers
55 grains compressed H4895, 26,500 CUP
Indices Range
Range - yds. 0 50 100 150 200
Velocity - ft./sec. 1810 1651 1505 1373 1258
Energy - ft.-lbs. 2909 2419 2011 1674 1405
Path - in. -1.5 2.2 2.8 -0.6 -8.5

Source: Adapted from Hodgdon #27

Jackfish,

It’s not me who is making the law and in some cases anti-gunners (we have far too much of them in Germany) are doing that.

As I told you, the .45-70 isn’t popular in Europe, the only factory ammo available is the Remington stuff. Some “lawmaker†looked at Remington’s ballistic figures and decided the .45-70 is not enough cartridge for the task. Most traditional hunters support that decision because they dislike leverguns for hunting. Most of them are useing their Mauser style bolt guns chambered for the 8x57 or 9,3x62 or even worse - carry a bulky "Drilling" with two 16 gauge smooth barrels and one rifled barrel chambered for the 9,3x74.

I really appreciate your effort to defend the .45-70. Since I have a 1895 in .45-70 I was always interested in the ballistics of this cartridge. I admit, that I’m a very cautious when it comes to +P loads, since I stood next to a guy at the range who blew up his .44 Spec. revolver using a super duper handload intended to duplicate the power of a .44 Mag.

I decided to be on the safe side in every respect and bought a 1895M. I like the rifle for it’s handiness and the stunning power along with the amazing accuracy of the .450 Marlin.

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Tom