Hey Guys!

I am on the lookout for a Lever action rifle and I am wondering why ya'll decided on the calibers you did for yours. (The bigger calibers that is...). What is the difference in M.E. / Velocity / etc out of these 3 calibers? How's the recoil on them?

I am looking for a good brush gun/fun gun/plinking gun. A Real Heavy Hitter (On both ends!!).

I really like the Marlins but I may keep a lookout for a Winchester.

Thanks

Justin


Also, has anyone ever owned a Lever Action with one of these larger calibers and hasn't had the stock start cracking on them? I am curious because I am starting to hear a lot of that I am worried about buying one of these and having the stock crack due to recoil after a few years.

stainless 45-70 guide gun!

Boomstick,

I noticed that Walmart carries those with a Laminate stock...they look great! Although I dont think it is the guide gun version. I checked the Marlin website and I could only find the Stainless in the non laminate.

Is there a difference in strength between the wood and laminate on one of these ?

the lam have a longer barrel if that is o.k. with you...you could lop it off if needed...always easier to take off than to add
lop it off at 20" thats all you need

I have marlins in 50 alsakan, 45/70,444 and 44 mag. and a winchester 94 in 444 (unfired).
As far as the Marlins go- recoil with full power loads is about the same. I can't feel any recoil from the 44 mag. The 444 and 300 grain 45/70 give light recoil - about 300 magnum level. The 45/70 405@2000fps and the 50 alaskan give about .338 WM recoil. Certainly not uncomfortable for me to shoot 200 rounds from in an afternoon.

Stainless Guide Gun! Factory loads don't kick much, especially the 405 grain loads, my 7mm kicks way worse. I got mine new $475, good price.

I found a 1895 in .450 Marlin for $400...just waiting on the seller to send some pics!

My perspective is
They've been making and shooting 45-70s for a hundred some odd years, there's a collective mass of knowledge that is unbeatable. There are uncountable numbers of brass out there.
The 444 Marlin is basically the same cartridge, same power, same guns just a wee bit smaller hole in the end of the barrel. A whole lot less brass available. A whole lot less knowledge to tap into.
Just what the hell the 450 Marlin is, escapes me.
Jim

45-70!

Thanks guys!

Maybe ill try to find an ole' "Tried and True" .45-70.

pm sent Boom Stick

quote:

Originally posted by arkypete:
...The 444 Marlin is basically the same cartridge, same power,...

Unequivocally untrue.

Please explain Jackfish !


(In order to keep the thread alive)

I have a marlin 1895 45/70, and a Marlin 444 (older). Both seem to knock big holes in stuff. I have a bunch of old 444 marlin ammo. Bought it from somebody at a gun show (cheap). It has price tag on each box that says $4.50. I have not shot it up yet.

The 45/70 seems more accurate that this particular 444. I would like to try one of the new ones with the 1 in 20" twist.

The 444 holds 5 in the mag tube and the 45/70 holds 4 if that is a consideration. The thing is that the big deer show up when I have the 45/70. The 444 seems only to do hogs.

I also have a Ruger #1 45/70 that is scary accurate, but it has yet to go to the field and I have had it for 10 years.

I wouldnt mind getting another #1 but there is something about a small lever action that draws me in

Buglemintoday:

Couldn't help noticing that you are from Texas. That's pretty wide open country, isn't it? (Your mention of .44 and .45 cartridges doen't remind me of long shots!) I bought a Marlin 444 some years ago because of an act of cowardice that I am confessing now. I used to hunt black bear on stand (on the ground) in Ontario. I had shot one black bear a year before weighing about 300 lbs (or a little less) I had a huge black, about darn near 7 feet or more long come to the bait. He spotted me -and didn't retreat. I had a 35 Rem. I was afraid to shoot. (He was about 60 feet away) The bear went away. I went and bought a Marlin 444 for next season. ( Yeah, the bear scared me and I wasn't so sure that a 35 Rem. would drop him -or stop him if he came for me.Please, no war stories about how good the 35.Rem is. I knew how good it was on deer. You all know the old expression:" You had to be there". (in the woods by yourself) The 444 gave me a real feeling of comfort. (Yeah, I did manage to crease a bear's neck at about 40 yards with the 444 and he took off like a rocket. My excuse is that he was the biggest bear I ever saw in Ontario -even bigger than the last one. My point {in my longwinded fashion} is that the 444 is a great cartridge -because those huge shells give a great sense of comfort when you're out there by yourself! That's why the 444 Marlin is so great!

The fellas over at Beartooth Bullets, a web site such as this one, are very partial to the 444, especially the head honcho. He's devoted a lot of time, money and effort to researching the 444. Marshall can make the 444 stand up and bark.
I've got so many 45 molds and cases that, I'd need to be having a second midlife crisis to switch.
Any way have fun, you won't go wrong with what ever decision you make.
Jim

Thanks guys for the responses!

Gerrys375- lol this will be my "Fun Gun"! Ghost Sight, heavy loads, made for rabbits, armadillos, badgers, porcupines, hogs, etc.!!! No long range hunting in Tx when most deer hunting is done at a feeder anyways. Thanks for the input on the .444 !!

Arky- I've been reading up a lot and it seems to be that a lot of people think the .444 isn't as destructive as the .45-70/.450. But the people I have talked to in person have stories of how the .444 would do amazing things while in the field.

Who knows what I will end up with! All I know is I'll be at Cabelas in a couple of weeks with a big wallet lookin for the goods!!

quote:

this will be my "Fun Gun"! Ghost Sight, heavy loads, made for rabbits, armadillos, badgers, porcupines, hogs, etc!

If you need a large bore varmit rifle then get the 444. No telling how much fun a 180 JHP at a fraction of lightspeed would be...

I would go with the 45/70.
There are many more factory loads, and brass and .458 bullets are inexpensive and widely available.

PS. Stay away from armidillos, they are lepers.

Do you all know why God created armadillos?



So some folks can have possum on the half shell.
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Buglemintoday:
Thanks guys for the responses!



Arky- I've been reading up a lot and it seems to be that a lot of people think the .444 isn't as destructive as the .45-70/.450. But the people I have talked to in person have stories of how the .444 would do amazing things while in the field.

Who knows what I will end up with! All I know is I'll be at Cabelas in a couple of weeks with a big wallet lookin for the goods!!

Let me help you put a really big dent in that fat wallet.
Get a Winchester 1886, it a class act all the way. Mine is the take down model.
Jim

hahahaha that was (2) #4 turkey loads at 45yards and 10yards, and (1) 1 Oz. Slug. 12ga Benelli Nova.

Oh yeah this lever gun may see some Dark Timber Elk Action as well...

I just googled the 1886 and I think that is out of my league Beautiful gun but for $1,300+ I'd probably be looking for a Sharps.

My first preference would be a .405Win in the Winchester 1895 followed by the .444Marlin , I have both and they are both outstanding lever action calibres

quote:

Originally posted by RLI:
My first preference would be a .405Win in the Winchester 1895 followed by the .444Marlin , I have both and they are both outstanding lever action calibres

RLI
I agree with you on the 405 Win in a mod 95. But the question didn't mention the 405. I don't think that Marlin's actions are such that the 405 cartridge will function through them.
Jim

I was looking a couple of years ago, then an older 444 marlin (pre safety pistol grip) came up for sale by a friend of a friend...long story short I picked it up barely fired for $250.00. It's a fun gun to shoot and isn't too far behind the 45-70.
My reason was purely for the good deal at the time, one year I'm going to take it elk hunting and get it bloody the old fashioned levergun, open sights, way.

My buddy has a guide gun with ghost ring sights and a few mods from wild west....It's a great gun as well.

I don't think you'll go wrong with any of your choices.

Keith

Not many have said much about the .450.

Will it be hard to get brass in the coming years? Is it not very popular?

quote:

Originally posted by Buglemintoday:
Please explain Jackfish !


(In order to keep the thread alive)

Specification, 45-70 Government, 444 Marlin
Rim diameter, .608", .514"
Head diameter, .505", .471"
Mouth diameter, .480", .453"
Length, 2.105", 2.225"
COL, 2.55", 2.57"

When both the 45-70 Gov't and 444 Marlin are loaded to their potential in Marlin lever guns, given equal sectional density, the 45-70 Gov't will drive a bullet of similar construction and configuration at least as fast as the 444 Marlin, and given equal weight, the 45-70 Gov't will drive a bullet of similar construction and configuration significantly faster than the 444 Marlin. Hence, the 45-70 Gov't will shoot just as "flat" (as in equivalent trajectory) as the 444 Marlin while delivering more energy to the target and more recoil to the shooter.

When both are loaded to their potential in 22" barreled Marlin lever guns the 45-70 Government will achieve approximately 2375 fps and 2150 fps with 300 and 350 grain jacketed bullets, respectively, whereas the 444 Marlin will achieve approximately 2375 fps and 2150 fps with 265 and 300 grain jacketed bullets, respectively. So the 45-70 yields momentum figures of 101 and 107 respectively, whereas the 444 Marlin has momentum figures of 89 and 92 respectively.

I like to shoot cast bullets in the large bores, that would especially be true in the lever guns. The Marlins are a little short, the action that is, for the cast bullets I would choose. Therefore, I would go with a 1886. My first choice would be 45-70, handloaded with a 400 grain large meplate cast bullet.
I wish that Marlin would have used their older longer action when they came out with the 45-70 guide gun. If they did I would have been totally satisfied with that rifle. If you shoot jacketed bullets only then the cost of a 1886 might not be worth the extra $. IMO

I have something to say about the 450.I bought an as new (no box) Win. 94 Timber Carbine that I may sell.It is a beautiful gun, and because it is so collectible,and I really didn't need it, I have not used it.I like the caliber,it is easy to find full power loads without reloading.I will sell it for $975 + shipping. I haven't listed it on the classifieds yet.

quote:

Originally posted by arkypete:

quote:

Originally posted by RLI:
My first preference would be a .405Win in the Winchester 1895 followed by the .444Marlin , I have both and they are both outstanding lever action calibres

RLI
I agree with you on the 405 Win in a mod 95. But the question didn't mention the 405. I don't think that Marlin's actions are such that the 405 cartridge will function through them.
Jim

Speaking of 1895s and the .405 Winchester ... anyone interested in one should download the latest catalog from www.cdnninvestments.com

I have the 450 Marlin 1895 Guide Gun. Great Rifle. The most accurate lever gun I have ever shot and you don't need to hand load or buy custom ammunition to reach the higher performance levels like with the 45/70.

I just got my .450 marlin about a week ago. I love it, it seems to shoot very well. I will be trying it on moose and black bear this year with the lever evolution ammo.

My two cents- I was pondering the same thing you were a little while back- which caliber to choose between the 444, 45-70, and 450. My choice was the 45-70. Why? The most "bang for my buck". The 450 has an advantage over the 45-70 in factory loadings but since I never shoot factory ammo this was of no concern to me and 45-70 brass is cheaper and easier to find. Also, the potential of the 45-70 I feel is greater than the 444 when reloading if for no other reason than the wider array of available bullet weights and types.

I have both the 450 Marlin & 3 - 444's to play with. I don't reload, so the 450 gives me high velocity that I could not get with factory 45-70. Although most people on this board probably reload, most other folks don't, making the 450 perhaps a better choice for non-reloaders. I love the 444 and for most uses, think it is the gun of choice for me. Truthfully though, it all comes down to personal preference. This could have been Chevy v. Ford v. Dodge or 30-06 v. 7mmRM v. 308 or something else along those lines. Any of these three are going to do most anything you want them to do out to any reasonable range. The 45 calibers would give an advantage with really large critters, but for all around use, all three are excellent. Just my $.02.

If you reload, or are willing to get the equipment and learn, then definantly go with the 45-70. If you will never reload but want all the power possible from the rifle then go with the 450 marlin.

the 444 is essentially a 44 magnum with about an inch of extra case, and fires a .452 bullet like the 44 mag. The 450 marlin is a 45-70 with a belt added so that it can't be chambered in the old 45-70's and loaded to higher pressures. But like has been previously mentioned, 45-70 brass is cheaper than 450 marlin so if you reload go with the 45-70 also there is a larger variety of suitable bullets for th 45-70 (.458) than the 444. Bullets made for the 44mag can be used in the 444 but the higher velocities will reduce penetration.

My marlin guide gun in 45-70 is the reason I finally started reloading and I've never looked back. Next I'm going to start casting my own bullets.

Laminated stocks are generally more durable than stocks made from a single piece of wood. I backed off my handloads due to the walnut stock cracking on my guide gun. It kicked harder than my 375 h&h mag. I've since bedded the stock on the marlin and theres been no more problems.

Thanks for the posts!

Trekker - Yes I do reload! I found a guide gun in .450 Marlin that the owner is wanting $400 for. I got quoted $530 for a new one. That is pretty stiff for me.

What do ya'll think a good price is ?

I would like to pay less then $500 or $450 if possible

Does anyone know how to get ahold of BoomStick besides Private Message? I replied to his pm but I dont think he sees that he has a new one and I dont know his email.

The 444 aand 44 mag bullet diameter is .429 not even a true 43 caliber. It should have been called a 43 mag. The 45/70 or 450 marlin fire a .458 diameter bullet. That's almost a 46 caliber. So actually a 45 cal rifle is right at 3 calibers bigger and not the 1 caliber that it would seem.

I paid $525 for my guide gun about 3 years ago. Check the used gun racks, I've seen them for $300 to $350 on occassion.