Controllability vs power is a problem that has plagued firearms use for ever.

For a hunting situation where one has more time to place ones shot controllability isn't as important but could be.

Being able to place follow up shots in a self- defensive situation could very well be life saving.

Phil was able do place many rounds on target because a 9mm is a lot more control able then lets say a full house 357 or larger.

Normally a good firearms user can control a lesser recoiling firearm easier then a harder recoiling one.

I love the performance of my full power hard cast 315gr WFN 44mag bullets on large game I seen them shoot through more then 4 foot of flesh.

But they sure are slower when one has to bring the gun out of recoil for follow up shots.

The two 500 S@W one long barrel one and one short barrel one I have shot a bit with factory loads were a bear to bring back on target for a fast follow up shot.

My 460S@W is also very slow to bring out of recoil for fast follow shots.

Having shot more than one bears at near muzzle contact distance. I have found a well placed bullet that penetrates and destroys the vitals of the animal is what it takes.

The key to defending oneself with a firearm is placing rounds on target and breaking the target down stopping its activity.

Misses don't very often have the desired effect through the sound of a firearm going off has been known to stop or detour an attacker.

I wouldn't count of noise alone I prefer well placed rounds on target.

The key to self-defense with a firearm is

1 Having a firearm.

2 Having it go bang when you pull the trigger.

3 Hitting your target.

4 Shooting until the threat is stopped

Any firearm that allows one to meet the 4 above goals is just fine with me.

Are some better then others yes are they all perfect no.

Carry what ever you want I prefer quality firearms from known makers shooting the best rounds for the particular job at hand.

But I well use what ever I have with me to defend myself. If that means pumping 10 rounds of 22rf from my rabbit pistol into threat to stop it. Or one or more rounds of a more powerful cartridge so be it.

There is one other factor involved in my incident that the boosters of larger, more powerful handguns have failed to address, but that was constantly formost in my mind during the shooting.
With the two clients only a matter of feet behind the bear, over penetration posed as serious a problem as the bear.

I shoot the full Load 357's 158 grain pretty well and pretty fast in a 586 4" and would be OK with that combo in a pinch like Phil was. I think I would prefer a 180 Hard cast at 900-1000 FPS in that. I had a Model 29 6" that I shot 250 hard cast at about 1000 FPS the same way. If I still had that pistol, I would prefer that one. Not advice for anyone else. Just for me. Of course if I was planning on a "bear fight," I would much prefer having Phil there behind me with Old Ugly. Or that beautiful 30-06 he has posted pics in hand.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

As for Phil's shot, today I shot at 1290 yards with my .338 Edge and hit four inches left with perfect elevation on my first try...does that mean I can do it every time?

If you are doubting it yourself then I doubt it as well - but what does that have to do with my being able to consistantly keep all my shots from a 9mm within four inches at 10 feet ?

Phil:

I was referring to the fact you killed the bear with a 9mm, not your ability to shoot. In my opinion (others may differ) a sample size of one doesn't really prove anything - any more than shooting a bear with a .458 and having him crawl away means the .458 is not up to snuff for bears. BUT, if we were to conduct an "experiment" in which you did it again, I sure would not want to be the bear.

My comment is about repeatability - in other words, how likely is one to be able to stop a bear with a 9mm? You did it once, but a sample size of one is the smallest possible sample. Having enough observations about killing bears with a 9mm is virtually impossible. I mean, if you filed 10 DLP kills with F&G, it might start to raise some eyebrows...to say nothing of a sample size of 30.

The other issue is you know bears, you have seen them in the wild, etc - but most people don't have your experience. I would guess most DLP kills are filed by relatively inexperienced hunters, but that is pure conjecture.

I am not criticizing your use of a 9mm; it worked for you. But that doesn't mean it is the best for the job. Karamojo Bell killed over a thousand elephants with a 7x57, but that doesn't mean it is ideal for the rest of us. In the case of bears, I would think AKF&G would have detailed reports and surveys on guns used for DLP bear kills as well as weapons used that failed to stop a bear; be interesting reading.

Bottom line is no gun is gonna work awesome every time. Let's not overthink this one.

This is beginning to sound like a who shot Kennedy discussion. For me at least this pretty well sums it up:

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:

As I've said before. When you have a gun and have a bear encounter, you have a bear gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
Bottom line is no gun is gonna work awesome every time. Let's not overthink this one.

Fully agree, the pistol is an important, but only a very small portion of the equation. And anyone with a lick of common sense and experience would not choose ANY handgun to knowlingy joust with a bear.

As we used to say in Vietnam, the puprose of a handgun is to be able to fight your way over to a real weapon.
Or another way of looking at them is like a life jacket on a boat. No one would choose one to cross the ocean -- but they can be pretty nice to have once in a while.

quote:

Or another way of looking at them is like a life jacket on a boat. No one would choose one to cross the ocean -- but they can be pretty nice to have once in a while.

Handguns are a lot like many personal safety devices PFDs fire extinguishers seatbelts ect.

You don't need then often or maybe never but if you do need one it is really nice to have.

Many of us in Alaska carry short shotguns when fishing in bear country; OO Buck followed by slugs. Would not have worked in Phil's situation.

quote:

Originally posted by Abob:
Many of us in Alaska carry short shotguns when fishing in bear country; OO Buck followed by slugs. Would not have worked in Phil's situation.

That would be my first choice. Closest I've been to a Brown bear was at the zoo and that boy was big as a car. Regarding Glock 20 - I have owned them and a G29 and about every other 10MM handgun ever produced. After 100,000 plus rounds of every possible combination down range, I can tell ya I wouldn't carry a G20 for gopher defense much less Bear. The Glock model 20 is one of the biggest pieces of shit ever to occupy real estate in a gun store. Mine almost never went 50 rounds without a misfire or jamb, endless trips to Glock and modifications to no avail. Impossible to clean barrel despite alleged RC 60 plus hardness. And, seriously, if you haven't turned, stopped, or killed a bear with 6 rnds in yer wheel gun, you've met super bear or you can't shoot fer shit, in which case another ten magazines in yer Glock ain't gonna save yer ass. Oh, did I mention that Glock triggers are something between a matchlock and a dime store dart gun? In my non bear shootin' opinion, buy a Smith revolver, load yer own, and practice like a sum beotch.

Dopple; so far I've had 2 failures to go fully into battery with mine . And both were when I started reloading for it and didn't have my seating/crimping just right. I don't think I have over 500 rounds thru mine yet. But 2 out of 500 is acceptable to me as I know the cause of the malfunction. Me. Having had a number of S+W revolvers. I'll stick with my Glock.
Not arguing , or even disagreeing with your experiences. Just saying mine aren't the same.

I would like to think that anyone even remotely considering carrying a handgun for any sort of protection would have fired it enough to be proficient and have confidence in it.
It makes little difference if you prefer revolvers or semi-automatics, they are only tools and work no better than their operator.

[Quote) Dopplegangster Regarding Glock 20 - I have owned them and a G29 and about every other 10MM handgun ever produced. After 100,000 plus rounds of every possible combination down range, I can tell ya I wouldn't carry a G20 for gopher defense much less Bear. The Glock model 20 is one of the biggest pieces of shit ever to occupy real estate in a gun store. Mine almost never went 50 rounds without a misfire or jamb, endless trips to Glock and modifications to no avail. Impossible to clean barrel despite alleged RC 60 plus hardness.riggers are something between a matchlock and a dime store dart gun?[/QUOTE]

Wow, I have owned and daily carried a dozen different Glocks over the last 26yrs without a SINGLE failure to fire or eject. I truly believe that your experience is very much the exception. I have a model 22 that was my duty gun for the last 13yrs of my career and it has been beaten and twice submerged in ocean water. Still runs like a champ. We had range guns that had run 30K rounds without fail. My G20 is my everyday woods gun for the last six years and has never failed despite constant exposure to the elements. Hopefully you got a replacement because obviously that level of problems is not the norm.

P.S. Something I discovered when carrying my S&W 66 back in the early 80's was that you could not fire it while wearing gloves, even thin leather duty gloves. When fired double action the first round would go off but the glove material on the top edge of my trigger finger would get trapped as the trigger went forward to reset and it would disable the gun every time! Something you might want to test at home whatever you choose to carry.

The problem(s) with the G20 started when new and continued til I freed myself of it. I had the G20, a G29, a G17, and a G19. Only the G20 was chronic, the 29 worked perfectly, the triggers are still crap IMO but that's just me I spose. IE - a Corolla will get ya to work reliably but not as well as ... Good point on the S&W with gloves. Don't usually wear them in my locale but something to consider if yer out in the weather.

JCS: Thanks for the heads up on gloves and revolvers

IMHO only a CNS shot could be depended on to stop an aggressive bear. At least to stop him before he fell over dead on top of your dead body. I have examined brown bear skulls and was amazed how thin they are. It would not take a large caliber weapon to scramble ones brains, or break the spine which would be more difficult but still doable with a 220 gr. bullet at 1150 fps. I'm quite certain that the 10mm would be adequate.
We must keep in mind that a highly agitated, animated bear is not holding still so you can get off a well aimed shot. The ability to have numerous follow up shots available could be critical.
I retired my old model S&W 57 and 58 an d replaced them with a Glock 20. So far my Glock has ran like a well oiled sewing machine. The trigger on my Glocks are better than the double action triggers on my .41 mags.

WoodrowS-Your what if the bear doesn't position itself where you can hit in the vitals wreaks of you can hit em anywhere with a big magnum. Not true. A bad shot with a magnum is still a bad shot. This reminds me of threads on shooting deer with a .223. Lots of folk that have never done it telling folks that have done it, that it can't be done. I think Phil has been there done that.
BTW more people die of wasp and bee stings than bear attacks. Is a 9mm ample for bees and wasps? Maybe so? Maybe that's why he had the 9mm was expecting bees or wasps.

What bullets were used in the 9mm?

Lots of talk here about controllability of the handgun for follow up shots.

I would say this gent seems to control the Glock 40 (10mm) fairly well in rapid fire mode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwGrpePCYeI

Cheers
Jim

What bullets were used in the 9mm?6

Buffalo Bore +P 147 hardcast at 1100 fps Article is here

https://www.americanhunter.org...zly-with-9mm-pistol/

Thanks.
I often carried a 41 mag with 293 grain hardcast at 1275 fps.

Having hunted in Alaska my entire life and experienced a very large coastal brown bear coming after me to protect his kill, no way would I purposely carry an auto loading handgun for bear protection. In brown bear country anyways. The encounter lasted seconds before he was nearly on top of us. I had a Reeder 500 linebaugh 5 1/2" made after that encounter. In my experience the 500 & 460 smiths, even the super Redhawks are just to big and heavy to carry on your hip up mountains. We left ours at the cabin that day because our hips were sore from packing them around. I can go all day and not really notice my linebaugh. Yes, 40's, 10's and 45's will kill a big bear, just not going to carry one in big bear country.

quote:

In my experience the 500 & 460 smiths, even the super Redhawks are just to big and heavy to carry on your hip up mountains.

For sure my for 460 is a big handgun and slower to get into action then my smaller handguns,

Big heavy loads they are slower to recover from if follow up shots are needed.

First round solid hits are very important as one might not get a chance for follow up.

So what the answer carry what you want.

pdog,

My issue with the big handguns is not the time it takes to get the first shot. We were on the side of that mountain in thick brush without our handguns that day. More than once we all just about unstrapped our pistols and threw them in the salt water because every step was painful, so that day we left them at the cabin. Back in those days my friends and I worked out everyday for 2 hours, we were in fantastic shape. Now I'm just chunky and lazy. Hiking on squishy muskeg all day with a heavy pistol on your hip is painful. Having a chest rig is just not practical with the clothing you need on the Alaska islands that time of year.

We knew that bear was coming for us because he let out the most amazing roar and we could see the bush being laid down as he came. We didn't get eyes on him until he was 10 - 15 feet away. All we saw was his head and shoulders coming over the top of the last bit of brush right in front of us, that brush was a good 6 -7 feet tall. By the grace of God one of us was able to spine him in the neck with our 26" barreled scoped rifles.

I'm a pretty decent hand gunner. But unless you're Jerry Miculek you would of had 13 rounds left in your 10mm by the time that bear had your head in his mouth. So the argument that a high capacity handgun is decent bear protection just doesn't cut it. In my personal experience, 13 rounds would have been completely useless.

Rifle is always your best choice, but a handgun sure beats the hell out having nothing with you.

quote:

Originally posted by akmoose70:
Having hunted in Alaska my entire life and experienced a very large coastal brown bear coming after me to protect his kill, no way would I purposely carry an auto loading handgun for bear protection. In brown bear country anyways. The encounter lasted seconds before he was nearly on top of us. I had a Reeder 500 linebaugh 5 1/2" made after that encounter. In my experience the 500 & 460 smiths, even the super Redhawks are just to big and heavy to carry on your hip up mountains. We left ours at the cabin that day because our hips were sore from packing them around. I can go all day and not really notice my linebaugh. Yes, 40's, 10's and 45's will kill a big bear, just not going to carry one in big bear country.

I did a 3 year hitch with the Coast Guard in Kodiak. I have to agree with you about the bulk of large pistols. Even my 5 1/2 inch RH 44 magnum was more than I wanted to deal with at times. There were a lot of times I went fishing and salmon berry picking unarmed. These places were typically close to the road where hikers and fishers were common. I was salmon berry picking not far from my house on Point Retreat Way. Let's see if the google map link works. https://www.google.com/maps/pl...48132!4d-152.4993501

I was near the north end of Lake Catherine off to the west of a gravel road that parallels the lake. This was my first summer there and my first opportunities to explore AK. As I walked the gravel road I looked for bear signs. There were none. I was wading neck deep in salmon berries about 50 yards west of the gravel road when I froze in my tracks. I hadn't heard or seen anything, but developed this overwhelming sense that something was near me. I had goose bumps from head to toe. I don't scare easily, but it kinda worked on me. At this point I was probably 500 yards straight line distance from my house. I decided to bail out. About 50 yards down the gravel road from where I exited the thicket was a large pile of still warm bear scat. Yes I touched it!

Fast forward a couple of months and I was jump shooting mallards off of the northern most peninsula in Lake Catherine when I noticed the largest bear tracks I has seen to date. They were on a well worn path along the edge of the lake. I followed them along the shoreline until I hit a small creek surrounded by a nasty tangle of alders. I didn't push further. I surmised the bear was feeding on the the dying salmon along the banks. Being my first year there, I wasn't eligible to hunt road system bear, but I made mental note that I would hunt there the following year.

I did. I sat on top of the peninsula watching over the path along the shoreline. I hunted that area several times without seeing any bear. By that time I had been in Kodiak for over 15 months and had spent considerable time exploring. The tracks were the largest tracks I had seen. It baffled me that a bear that size could make its home so close to a Coast Guard housing complex. I hadn't heard of anyone reporting seeing a massive bear there. I talked to a couple of buds and even showed a few the tracks. They were impressed. It was my last year there that an acquaintance David Simmerman killed that bear. I think it scored #13 Boone and Crockett. I would not be surprised if that is the bear that gave me my berry picking scare a few years earlier. If someone has access to B&C records, they can check that one.

I saw its carcass after David had killed it. It looked like a VW bug. It was massive. I can't imagine using a 9MM, a 357 or a 44 on that bear. But thinking back, it probably would have been better than going unarmed as I often did. There is an almost romantic quality in hiking the haunts of Ursus Horribilus. It's humbling to be sure.

Great post thanks Paul. I've been in two situations up close, one with a large (for Montana) grizzly boar in 1979 in the Bob Marshall, where my rifle was leaning against a tree 100 feet from me, and another in Alaska where I was sitting on a raft glassing the opposite shore in the pouring rain and a small (7 feet?) brown bear came running (not charging) at me and my rifle was leaning against the raft with the scope covers on. In both cases, a shout worked, but having my 1911 in 45 Super on my hip would've been comforting. I don't go out in bear country without it these days ...

Most people who spend time in the wilds of Alaska have some sort of bear story but all those stories prove is that yes, there are bears, and the vast majority of bears want nothing to do with people.

This photo fits the description of a classic bear attack situation as it is a sow with two little cubs apparently charging a human. But there was no danger to any of the participants, or I would have been pointing a gun rather than my camera.
We spent the remaining portion of the afternoon fishing sometimes within 20 feet of the bears.

I seem to remember a fellow named Tredwell that had a similar cavalier attitude toward large, potentially dangerous bears. I think most of us know how that turned out for him.....and his seemingly naïve girlfriend. Well, he was the most naïve.

Even the well experienced owner of Buffalo Bore admits HE carries a 475L or a 500L when in bear country. Just read what HE DOES say about handguns when it comes to the larger bears on his own website. I did, but I already knew what he was recommending, and understand why he totes what he does when in large bear country. A wise man.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
Great post thanks Paul. I've been in two situations up close, one with a large (for Montana) grizzly boar in 1979 in the Bob Marshall, where my rifle was leaning against a tree 100 feet from me, and another in Alaska where I was sitting on a raft glassing the opposite shore in the pouring rain and a small (7 feet?) brown bear came running (not charging) at me and my rifle was leaning against the raft with the scope covers on. In both cases, a shout worked, but having my 1911 in 45 Super on my hip would've been comforting. I don't go out in bear country without it these days ...

Here's another quick read you may enjoy.

I was stationed with the Coast Guard in Kodiak AK. Anyone familiar with brown bears and Kodiak knows they go hand in hand. I thought before I transferred up there that I wouldn't be interested in bear hunting. All the Discovery Channel and Animal Planet documentaries had led me believe that I could simply walk up to the salmon stream of my choice and shoot any bear I wanted. Most of those documentaries are filmed in National Parks where the animals are both protected and accustomed to seeing a large number of people.

After spending over a year in Kodiak and using most of my leisure time to hunt, hike, fish and 4 wheel as far off the beaten path as I could get, I had only seen one bear in the wild. I reckoned properly that bears were a worthy adversary.

I bought a Remington model 7600 pump rifle in 35 Whelen. I handloaded some stout 225 gr Trophy Bonded bullets and had shot the rifle enough to be quite comfortable with it. I liked the fast follow-up shot the pump action afforded.

I had scouted an area that was on Coast Guard property. There are a couple small streams that flow into the western end of Buskin Lake. One of them always had fresh bear tracks leading along the edge of the lake to the mouth of the stream. The silver salmon spawned in the stream and were a highly prized delicacy for the bears. The bear's protein rich salmon diet contributes heavily to their incredible size. Having talked to some of those who know and having done some independent research on brown bears, I had a strong suspicion that one of the sets of tracks belonged to a bear that would top 1000 pounds. Most of us would consider a 150 pound rottwieler a formidable foe. An animal 7-8 times that big, with senses much more keen, a bad attitude and a tenacity for life that is unmatched in the wild, commands every bit of your attention. This is an animal that can quickly, and without your knowledge or permission switch roles with you and make you the hunted. There are tales of big brown bears soaking up a half dozen lethal bullet hits before settling a hunter's hash.

I awakened before dark on the cold, still Kodiak morning. I drove my truck to the Coast Guard golf course parking lot near the edge of Buskin Lake. My plan was to quietly walk along the bank of the lake well before first light and set up a natural blind near the intersection of the lake and the stream. I figured the bear would walk along the edge of the lake and walk up the stream to the feeding grounds. The stream made a gentle bend and my blind would have the feeding area about 30 feet behind me, but partially obscured from my view by a combination of neck high grass and dense alders. As mother nature often does in Kodiak, she confounded matters a bit. On this morning there would be a steady mist and an increasingly thick fog.

The visibility was such that I could see perhaps 50 yards through the dark misty fog ahead of me. By the time I had crept the half mile or so along the black sandy bank to my blind, the sky began to lighten ever so slightly. Unfortunately the fog thickened into a blanket through which I struggled to see 20 feet. Well, they say in Kodiak that if you don't like the weather, wait a few minutes it will change. I sat on a log facing the lake waiting for change. When the fog cleared I would be able to see and take a shot of considerable distance to either my right or left. I had alders directly behind me and in fact sat on the log beneath some low hanging alder branches. Having spent much of my life running boats I had seen some thick fog. This fog was different though. It was coupled with a powdery fine, steady mist that drifted slowly toward the ground. I looked at stumps and rocks on the bank. I struggled to see those just 15 feet in front of me.

I was feeling pretty nervous and was second guessing my decision to continue on with the hunt, but I didn't fancy the prospect of meeting a Kodiak brown bear face to face should I choose to retreat. I hunkered down and waited for the break that never came. After an hour or so, I thought I heard a faint crackle of a limb some 30 yards or so behind me to my right. That would put what ever it was on the opposite side of the stream that was a scant 10 feet wide by 1-2 feet deep. Despite their size and the appearance of a clumsy lumbering gait, brown bears can move exceptionally quietly through the thickest of terrain. Then there was an unmistakeable splash. I had previously heard some splashing in the stream, but could tell it was salmon working their way to the hallowed spawning grounds. This splash was different. Then all was quiet for a while. When your sense of sight is taken away, your other senses become much more keen. I was on high alert processing every cue as if my life depended on it. It did. Whats that smell? Dear God, I smell a bear. My heart started racing. Pounding so forcefully I could feel it in my ears. Gasploosh, gasploosh, gasploosh, swat. Then I heard a salmon flopping on the bank. The bear had been staking out a salmon, made a quick dash for it then swatted it up onto the bank of the stream.

Crunch, crunch, crunch, slurp. I could hear this brute snacking on the salmon. I could smell him. I could feel his presence. He was but 30 feet behind me and I couldn't see him. It's funny how quickly your mind cycles thoughts at a time like this. I recall thinking that I had never been so alert, so aware, so alive in all my life. At the same time I could have just as easily been ever so close to death. If the bear winded me from such a short distance he would not likely retreat, but rather go on the offensive to ward off the one who dared to venture into his sacred dominion.

I slowly spun on the log to where I was oriented toward the noise. If the bear decided to plow through the tangled hell between the two of us, he could cover the distance almost as fast as I could shoulder the gun which was beginning to look quite puny in my arms. An eternity passed before I heard another sound. Another gasploosh, gasploosh, swat. It took all the calm I could muster to keep from screaming, running or firing into the grey darkness before me. I wanted out. But at the same time I kept processing how alive I felt. This must have gone on for thirty minutes. I kept glancing back toward the bank of the lake to see if I could discern any measurable improvement in visibility. No joy. Thankfully the air was absolutely still. I feared the slightest puff of wind from the wrong direction would send the bear into a territorial rage. I had no idea the human body could pump adrenaline at such levels over such a protracted period of time.

Splash, splash, crackle, grunt. The bear had crossed to my side of the stream and entered the thicket between us. He sensed something amiss and grunted at it. Eyes wide open, struggling to grasp every bit of available light, I peered into the blanket of fog, rifle shakily shouldered, trying to stiffle my heavy breathing, hoping to make out the ghostly silhouette of my quarry. Or was I his quarry? Another grunt and another crackle of a limb. He was cautiously advancing. I would soon be face to face with the most feared predator on the continent.

Not a sound, not a single clue as to what his location may be for another 15 minutes or so. A puff of wind hit me in the face. I no longer smelled him. I no longer sensed his presence. The misty fog that had enveloped me for the better part of two hours slowly dissipated. I could now make out the bank of the stream through the alder and grass thicket. I eased myself from beneath the alder and tried to stand. Knees too weak. I spent a couple of minutes regaining my composure then stood. I scanned the bank of the lake in the direction I wanted to go. All clear. With rifle at the ready, I retreated to the comfort and safety of my truck.

A couple weeks later I heard of a Boone and Crocket record book bear being killed in the area. I took a hike to investigate. Just a short distance upstream from my close encounter was the carcass of a bear that had been skinned out. I felt an odd sense of sadness. A creature that had made me feel more alive that I have ever felt before was now a decomposing corpse.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
I seem to remember a fellow named Tredwell that had a similar cavalier attitude toward large, potentially dangerous bears. I think most of us know how that turned out for him.....and his seemingly naïve girlfriend. Well, he was the most naïve.

Even the well experienced owner of Buffalo Bore admits HE carries a 475L or a 500L when in bear country. Just read what HE DOES say about handguns when it comes to the larger bears on his own website. I did, but I already knew what he was recommending, and understand why he totes what he does when in large bear country. A wise man.

No real need to read what some ammo fellow thinks W, we're here, here as in here in bear country. Living, working, sleeping, washing the car, taking out the trash. We know what works, we know whats real, necessary, required, whats responsible, whats at stake.

I'd no more tell anyone whats going on with Pennsylvania deer season than I would what the surface of Mars feels like. Likewise, for the life of me I can't figure why anyone would take your perspective on anything Alaskan as anything more than prattle,..... blather maybe?

You know better I think, why is it you take your blather so seriously?

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
I seem to remember a fellow named Tredwell that had a similar cavalier attitude toward large, potentially dangerous bears. I think most of us know how that turned out for him.....and his seemingly naïve girlfriend. Well, he was the most naïve.

Even the well experienced owner of Buffalo Bore admits HE carries a 475L or a 500L when in bear country. Just read what HE DOES say about handguns when it comes to the larger bears on his own website. I did, but I already knew what he was recommending, and understand why he totes what he does when in large bear country. A wise man.

Woodrow, you are certainly welcome to your opinion on what sort of handgun to carry for your local bears in Pa and Tim Sundles can carry what he wants while he is out on his horse in Montana.
That is probably all the wisdom and advice you need as you seem as ignorant and set on your opinions as Treadwell. Who buy the way, died just as short distance away from our homestead because he completely ignored advice from Alaskans.

quote:

Originally posted by akmoose70:
Having hunted in Alaska my entire life and experienced a very large coastal brown bear coming after me to protect his kill, no way would I purposely carry an auto loading handgun for bear protection. In brown bear country anyways. The encounter lasted seconds before he was nearly on top of us. I had a Reeder 500 linebaugh 5 1/2" made after that encounter. In my experience the 500 & 460 smiths, even the super Redhawks are just to big and heavy to carry on your hip up mountains. We left ours at the cabin that day because our hips were sore from packing them around. I can go all day and not really notice my linebaugh. Yes, 40's, 10's and 45's will kill a big bear, just not going to carry one in big bear country.

Sorry to disagree but I've packed a Super Redhawk for hundreds of days and more hundreds of miles . If your lighter handgun works for you great. But, packin a 3 lb handgun in a good holster with a good belt is really no big deal. I mean packin out a moose in 7 loads is a bit of work that can leave a guy sore . Packing any heavy load can leave a guy sore. Since I know lots of guys that pack 500 +460 Smiths and Super Redhawks. I dont consider it anything overly arduous. Sorry, not wanting to single you out . I just get tired of someone making a blanket statement that experience has shown to be false.

.[/QUOTE]

Woodrow, you are certainly welcome to your opinion on what sort of handgun to carry for your local bears in Pa and Tim Sundles can carry what he wants while he is out on his horse in Montana.
That is probably all the wisdom and advice you need as you seem as ignorant and set on your opinions as Treadwell. Who buy the way, died just as short distance away from our homestead because he completely ignored advice from Alaskans.[/QUOTE]


Excellent post Phil.!

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:

Sorry, not wanting to single you out . I just get tired of someone making a blanket statement that experience has shown to be false.

Really, people sharing their opinions and experience makes you tired? This is a forum, where peoples advice, experience and opinions are solicited.

I don’t reject your experience simply because it’s different from my own. I just assume your circumstances were different. My two friends and I hiked 10 – 12 miles each day for 8 or 9 days. Up and down ravines, up and down mountains, over and under deadfalls, rocky beaches. The terrain on Montague and southeast islands is much different from the mainland. We all shared the same experience and had the same opinions. This is a hunt we did every year. We have all hunted moose on the mainland carrying super redhawks and such without issue. Just because your experience is different from ours doesn’t make ours false.

I was a pre commercial tree thinner and timber faller in S.E. and South Central coast.
I packed a power saw , of course , 3 liters of saw gas and bar oil, liter of hydration fluid, spare saw chain. And a big pistol most of the time . For at least 6 hoyrs a day , 6 days a week generally from April thru October. Constantly walking /working. At least once I got my first 480 SRH. Before that I had a succession of 41,44 +45 caliber large revolvers. Way back in 1980 I had a Interarms Virginian Dragoon Buntline in 44 mag. 12" barrel. I made a hip holster for it and packed it all around Montague and on Hinchinbrook and other places in The Sound. And all over around Seward. I was Never inconvieneced by the barrel length. And was able to hit well with it. That was before the modern handgun bullet improvements so I loaded the 265 gr. Hornady 444 bullet and I think 4227 powder.
Anyway, a blanket statement that packing a heavy revolver is too heavy to pack is like telling someone a 9 won't work on a bear.
For me, an 8" X Frame is heavier than I want to pack. But if someone else chooses it, great. I wont tell them , thats too heavy to pack all day.
Ever since Ross Seyfreid declared the SRH too big and heavy for the 480 Ruger I get cranky about someone saying its too heavy to pack.

Ross Seyfried took me to task for not knowing how to shoot because I choose to use a 458 for backing up bear hunters (even though he took a 416 for a fairly small Kodiak bear) and now after the 9mm incident I get taken to task for not carrying enough gun.
You just can't win with some folks.

quote:

Originally posted by swampshooter:
IMHO only a CNS shot could be depended on to stop an aggressive bear. At least to stop him before he fell over dead on top of your dead body. I have examined brown bear skulls and was amazed how thin they are. It would not take a large caliber weapon to scramble ones brains, or break the spine which would be more difficult but still doable with a 220 gr. bullet at 1150 fps. I'm quite certain that the 10mm would be adequate.
We must keep in mind that a highly agitated, animated bear is not holding still so you can get off a well aimed shot. The ability to have numerous follow up shots available could be critical.
I retired my old model S&W 57 and 58 an d replaced them with a Glock 20. So far my Glock has ran like a well oiled sewing machine. The trigger on my Glocks are better than the double action triggers on my .41 mags.

Dang, I would have stuck with the 57/58. You can always get an action job on the revolver.

Phil, I think Woodrow is almost ready to book that hunt with you! I gotta feeling!!!!