I am considering buying my brother a Model 700 in .375 H&H and want to know what other folks who use this combination think of this outfit. I am looking at your basic new stainless steele synthetic stocked rifle...they come with iron sights...anyone who has experience with the Alaskan Wilderness Rifles, which costs basically twice as much, let me know what you think of that rifle.

Thank you.

I like the push feed Remington for target shooting. It's easier to load them single shot.

But for hunting with a big gun like a .375 you don't want it to jam and the ones like the M70, Mausers or others that have CRF (control round feeding) are more reliable.

Each to there own but I prefer a crf for a .375 H&H and if thats your budget M700 or there abouts I would also consider either a cz 550 or an M70 Winchester which does come in stainless and synthetic and I reckon would be the same price as the rem your lookin at give or take. I reckon the M70 or cz 550 action feels more "solid"than an M700 just my opinion however.

Savage99: I have only had two rifles ever jam on me, and they were both Mauser-actioned Model 70s (one .338Winmag and one .270Win).

I have been using Remington Model 700s since 1974, when I was 21, and I have never had one jam on me...for the past 15 years, since I could afford it, I have used Weatherbys..the best made rifle made in the world.

Week before last I shot a large toothy brown bear with a .378 Wby that I have owned for nearly 10 years. (This rifle has a push-feed action and brown bears are classified as dangerous game, if you didn't know.) I made a one-shot-kill. I also own and hunt with a .300 Wby and a .416 Wby, right here in Alaska.

Between these three rifles, I have killed most major game species in North American (I have not killed sheep, mnt. goat, polar bear, or muskox...but I am working on that). I have never had a push-feed rifle jam on me. Not once.

CFR actions jam routinely, or at least often enough for me to avoid them.

What I was asking for was information from people with experience hunting with a large caliber Model 700 (.375 H&H or better). Clearly, you are not that person.

I was not asking for opinions about the push-feed vs. controlled round feed. I think the argument about the difference in push-feed and CFR is for the birds. Anyone who has done any serious hunting knows that this is true.

PC: I agree that the M70 and CZ 550 are very comparable and in the past week I have looked at a couple of each here in Anchorage. I have also looked at the Rugers. Winchester, CZ, and Ruger all make a wooden stocked rifle that is probably worth having...but none of these rifles appeals to me. (I did shoot a little springbuck in SA once with a borrowed CZ550 in 7x64 Brennek and liked it...it reminded very much of a Win M70.) I do think they all have too many moving parts however. Of these rifles, Ruger is the best looking and has the best feel. But if I were to spend much more than $1000 I would buy a Weatherby, and I may do that. While cost is a factor, it is not the main factor.

quote:

have been using Remington Model 700s since 1974, when I was 21

rwj,

A guide up on Kodiak got his legs and feet eaten because his push feed was double fed by him in a panic. That's why PF's are NG for DGR's.


I hunted with a Remington (722) when I was 14 in 1953. By 1957 I discovered M70's.

I had a Weatherby (Sauer) in .378 and when a M70 in .375 came my way out the door it went and I don't miss it one bit.

Best of luck to you.

My jamming LH model 700 .375 has only killed 3 Brown Bear. I also have a LH Win 70 .375 have not shot anything with it yet it,s barrel is a
heavier profile and feels heavy and unbalanced.

Savage99: Any rifle, push-feed or CFR, will jam if the action is worked too fast or if there are other problems with the bullets...working the action fast is an act performed in the panic of a charging beast or the excitement of the chase. But it can also result from someone who does not know how to operate a bolt action rifle. Anyone who knows how to load a bolt action rifle properly and operate the bolt on a gun, push-feed or CFR, will have very few problems...if there were genuine problems with push-feed bolt action rifles, they would not be sold because they would be classified offically as unsafe...

As for people hurt or killed in Alaska, or Africa for that matter, I bet most of them where using CFR rifles and they did not know what they were doing. Or they did know what they were doing and they just exercised poor judgement..which has less to do with the type of action in your rifle...well armed people doing unwise things can still get hurt.

The only reason I don't care for CFR rifles is because I cannot find one I like as well as a Weatherby or because I cannot afford it (I want a Butch Searcy bolt action 500 Jeffery). It has very little or nothing to do safety. I do think Weatherby's are a better quality rifle than Winchester or Remington. But that is not an opinion based on safety or functional reliability. I just like Weatherbys and they have always worked for me.

P.S. While I'll take good luck anytime, I really try not to rely on luck..that includes the guns I use, boats I get into, and pilots and airplanes that I use.

RWJ: Here's a more honest answer to the question you posed. I shoot my Rem 700 BDL SS in 375 H&H all the time, and love it. I did put a Simm's Limbsaver recoil pad on it which made it almost pleasant to shoot. Went to Namibia last year, and it did the trick for 13 animals (including a half dozen kudu-gemsbok-zebra), out to 360 yards. It handles Noslers, Fail Safe's, and TBBC's all with the same accuracy and slick functioning. I love it and even pack it here in Idaho for calling black bears. Shot a coyote last weekend with a 260 grain AccuBond at around 250 yards, for the practice with the 1.75-6x Leupold on high power. It balances well, the action is smooth, and I have never had any of my 700's jam or fail to function. The sights on mine are a poor example of Big Green's (read POS here), and quality is lacking. I would hate to have to depend on them; a spare scope in Quik-release mounts is a better idea. If you can get one up there for a reasonable price, I believe they are a nice, functional working man's gun. The real truth of the matter is to practice a lot with your weapon of choice. I plan on taking mine back on the next trip for a buffalo hunt, and feel very prepared.

Oh yeah, another comment. The hollow stock with a folded up piece of plastic foam in it is the scratchiest, noisiest thing you have ever heard!!!!!!!! When you put the Simm's pad on, fill the entire butt section with the spray-in insulating foam to deaden the noise.

rwj,

I shoot a 700 in .375RUM. I handload it down to .375Weatherby velocities and have never had a problem w/it w/the exception of replacing the j-lock due to failure.


[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=241070&c=500&z=1"] [/url]

[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=241071&c=500&z=1"] [/url]

Attached are photos of one I let go last season in the Brooks.......got really close........then went back and got a camera and couldn't get quite as close. Pushfeed vs CRF is over rated. I know a reg.guide that uses a Mod 7 in .350RM......he's been doing it up here about thirty years. I wouldn't hesitate to buy the 700 in .375 H&H......it'll be fine!

Joe

kk Alaska and Blank: That is the information that I was looking for...folks with experience and an honest appraisal of the weapon. Having not shot one in .375 H&H, I wanted feedback from those who had.

Blank: Based on the iron sights on the rifles that I have looked at here in Anchorage, I would agree with you on their quality, but they do look functional in a pinch. I know that I cannot hit a barn door without a scope...but this rifle is for my brother and not me. And a scope will be put on it no matter what. I imagine the recoil on this light rifle is stiff, but managable, with a good recoil pad. And, Blank, I am looking for a good reliable working-man's gun, as you stated...nothing fancy but something that will put a big hole in a brown bear when the time comes.

I appreciate the knowledgeable advice...

And kk Alaska..good work on shooting three brown bears! (I think the bug has bitten me on hunting those beasts...) And Blank...it sounds like you have some good African experiences...good work.

Ovis: Thank you for the information..and exceptional photographs. What kind of camera where you using?

My partner on this most recent bear hunt, Mike Holley, owns and shoots a .375 RUM..he shot a gorilla of a brown bear using 300 grain SAFs with his rifle and it was devestating...He is honest about it having a stiff recoil (it kicks like a mule), but if you can get past that, it is a good gun to have...his is a laminated SS model.

I am going to get my brother the M700 in .375H&H..there are a couple here in Anchorage at pretty good prices.

Back to your photos: Those are excellent images. These animals are so beautiful...can you tell us what part of the Brooks Range you were in? On the North Slope? (Woops! I'll edit and say I see trees, so you are not on the N.S.!) Thank you for the advice on the rifle.

rwj,

The camera was a Fuji S7000 6megapixel digital. I really like it. I had gotten too close to this bear at one point, trying to get a better look, and almost had to shoot it. Later, I saw it again, went back to camp, got the camera and took the pics. The area in the Brook's is by Big Stump Creek....just east of the N.Pacific. Thanks for the complement and glad you liked the pics.

Robert, your brother will enjoy that rifle! When that bear bug bites, it bites hard and it doesn't go away.....I've had the disease for over thirty years......won't let me quit....nothing else like being close to one!

Joe

Joe

Joe: I was willing to guess that your images were close to or greater than 6 megapixals and that you had a good camera..those are great photos. That is a beautiful bear as well.

I enjoy your response to my question on your location!...I think I know where Big Stump is too ..it is a great place east of, well, western Alaska.

You are right about the bear bug biting...there is nothing like being close to one of those beasts. Beauty, stength, and honesty.

quote:

I appreciate the knowledgeable advice...

This is like asking people who have been using a parachute that can jam if it jammed yet.

The Remington design is the cheapest possible design what with it's lack of crf, a brazed on bolt lug section, a brazed on bolt handle that can fall off, a J lock and an inadequate safety. At best they are cheaper by a few dollars than a Winchester or were?

We spend more on an upgrade on a TV, airline seat or cruise cabin than for a feature on a bolt rifle, that's possible to operatate in the wrong way, than on a adequate rifle. The rifle will last for a long and healty life for only a few bucks more.

It's common sense to use the best design.

quote:

Any rifle, push-feed or CFR, will jam if the action is worked too fast

The push feed versus CRF arguement aside , I would take exception to that statement . If your rifle will jam simply because you run the bolt too fast , there is something wrong , no matter what the brand . And for sure you ain't got a dangerous game suitable weapon .

Funny how Savage99 uses Newman's attack as an example, and pretends to know the circumstances, but can't even get the freakin' island correct.

I've carried a Remington Model 700 Classic in 375 H&H for about 10 years. It's the wood and blue model, but the action etc... will be the same. Never had a problem with it, but admit to never taking it to Alaska. However, the rifle has made it to Africa 5 times and has also taken a couple big blackies in Northern BC and some elk, deer and hogs in Colorado and Texas.

I like Remington Rifles, but haven't looked at any new ones and am not qualified to say what the quality is today. I've got 4 rifles in the Model 700 in one configuration or another in 375 H&H, 7mm Rem Mag, 350 Rem Mag and 6.5x55 and have never had a jam in the 30 years I've been hunting. I wouldn't heistate to take one in 375 H&H after anything in North America and would feel comfortable using it anywhere in the world with the single exception being if I ever hunted elephant in the heavy rain forest I found in Cameroon, I'd want a big double rifle.

The push feed/CRF argument is overstated. Since it's universally agreed that the firs shot is the critical shot, I'll take the accuracy I've always found in the Remington over the CRF any day.

Mac

I purchased an M700 Alaskan Wilderness Rifle in 375 H and H by the Rem. custom shop about 3 years ago.

It is an accurate, light and easy to carry rifle which is what I wanted for a brown bear hunt. The opposite side of that coin is that it kicked like a 416 due to the light weight. Thats not a noticable thing when shooting at a Brownie but sighting in and load work up was literally a bruising affair.

My rifle actually worked the scope bases loose and once it dislocated my shoulder but that was more my fault than the rifles.

I eventually had mine re-barreled into a tack driving 300 win mag by John Ricks. I also installed a better butt pad than came on the rifle. I still have the 375 barrel but doubt that it will ever go back on the rifle while I own it.

The worst thing I had happen to this rifle was that the stupid "J" lock just locked itself up after the first shot at a Red Hartebeast during a safari in Africa. I suppose the recoil of the first shot caused it to lock up.

I had the key but that wouldn't unlock it and of course the rifle would not fire. Fortunately I had brought a spare rifle. I eventually had the J lock removed.

I definately would not recommend that anyone hunt dangerous game with the J lock on this type of rifle. If it behaved like mine did it could just lock up after your first shot and there would be no second shot possible.

rwj,
I don't usually join in these conversations but today I felt I sould share my experiances.Being a lefty I didn't have many choises and at 18 bought my first rem 700.That was way back in 1973 and I've never regretted it.
Now I've got three 700's,one of which is chambered in 375wby that started life as a 7mmMag.My brother sent me a ss375hh take off barrel and the rest is hitory.
This rifle feeds and extracks flawlessly and it has to.You see,I have a cabin on the yentna river just south of the mouth of the skwentna.The brown bear numbers are so high in this area that resedent hunters can take one bear a year,no tag needed.These high bear numbers are also a major factor in the low moose population but thats another story.
My 375 is my go to rifle when I'm up there and I trust my life to its function and accuracy.
Push feed?crf? I have and use both.I guess its just not much of an issue with me.

Palmer,

Same thing happened to me w/j-lock; fortunately I was at the range........Remington said that it was impossible.......took it to a Rem authorized repair facility.....they acknowledged the problem but wouldn't fix it until it was sent back to Rem.......I just replaced the assembly myself.

Joe

Ovis and Palmer: That sounds like information I would want to know on the j-lock...of the 5 or so M700s I have owned over the years, none of them had j-locks. Thank you for the information on that...

Robert,

It would take me quite awhile to figure up the amount of game I have shot with M700's in 375 on down. I really have had zero problems with any of them. They are so Damn simple that there isn't much to mess up. I did put Brownell's followers in them and adjust the triggers but they actually worked fine as they were. I have no experience with the new J Lock models. I shoot a bunch of CRF rifles and like them but as previously stated by others I think the CRF feature is over rated. Don't short stroke you rifle and you'll be fine.

Mark

Mark: Thank you for the information...what you say is consistent with my experiences and the experiences of other folks (for the most part) regarding the M700...and I know that you have a lot of hunting experience.

I am not personally familiar with the j-lock on new M700s, but I have killed a lot of North American game with a M700 (.270, 7mmRM, 338WM)..and they have all been great rifles to shoot and to rely on.

The CFR/PF thing is something I do not understand...but I have had M70s jam on me. I bet actions being jammed is a minor issue when real problems present themselves in the field.

My guess is that when a whole bunch of other things go wrong or are experienced (shooting too far, bad shot placement on a dangerous animal, guns mal-functioning in very minor ways at really bad times, fear, excitement, adrenalin), then one little bad thing leads to another that leads to another, until someone gets hurt or killed.

If you have to fend off a pissed-off brown bear or Cape buffalo then it is probably too late..and CFR or PF will likely not make a difference. I think the goal is not to have these encounters.

You are right about throwing the bolt short...I watched one of my brothers suffer this indignity in the mist of shooting a nice bull caribou two years ago...he looked stunned when there was no bullet in the chamber...his beast was already dead...but. After my brother regained his composure, he said he would pay more attention to properly working the bolt next time.

Again thank you for your evaluation.

quote:

Funny how Savage99 uses Newman's attack as an example, and pretends to know the circumstances, but can't even get the freakin' island correct.

David,

I remember the circumstances. It seems that I got the island wrong which is irrelevant.

Savage99: If you are willing to be wrong on one point, I am willing to think you are at least off-base on other points you want to raise...

I have actually hunted Pybus Bay where the bear attack you cite took place (I passed up a great looking black-haired beast at 400 yards on that hunt), which by the way is on Admiralty Island, SE Alaska (a beautiful place). I was recently hunting not far from there when I killed, and my partner killed, mature brown bears...You should stick to subject matter that you are personally familar with.

Last year, when this bear attack took place, I was quite critical of the guide on this forum..but it had nothing to with his gun...it had to do with how he handled the situation. I hope he is doing well today and that he is back in business.

If I could afford a decent CRF rifle, I would buy one (Searcy or Dakota)...but I would not buy one because it is safer than a PF, because they are not safer than PFs.

You need to go and look at the people hurt and killed in Alaska and Africa over the past five years...you will find that all of them, with few exceptions, were shooting big Mauser-actioned rifles. (One weakeness of Mauser-actioned Winchester rifles is that they have lousy safetys that don't work when they should...[Is this an overstatement? Of course it is..but do M70 safetys have serious problems at bad times...yes they do..ask Keith Atcheson.]). Action type rarely makes a difference in a bad situation.

You need to let loose of this CRF thing...it is bad for your health...they are just rifles.

quote:

it is bad for your health

Robert Jobson,

What in exact terms do you mean that "it's bad for my health"?

Don Martin

quote:

Savage99: If you are willing to be wrong on one point, I am willing to think you are at least off-base on other points you want to raise...

Good grief Jobson. The reference to Kodiak Island vrs the correct Admiralty Island is irrelevant.

The fact remains that most, who know what they are about, favor the Mauser CRF design for a DGR. Your stepping over diamonds to pick up pennies.

From on onset you just wanted a sing along on your PF 700 for dangerous game and you got a reality check.

Don

Savage 99,

Maybe you could share your dangerous game experience w/us, preferably concerning bear hunting in Alaska........maybe you could share your personal experience(there's the ugly "E word again) concerning your Mod.700 jamming while you were hunting dangerous game. I'm sure there have been some problems w/700s but c'mon, enough is enough........there have been problems w/all of them at times. As far as Robert wanting a "sing along", I doubt it.....because Robert has an answer to that; experience.

Joe

Hi RWJ:

I have four big bore calibers for Africa. Two CRF's, a custom 375 H&H & the full custom 458 Lott. Two push feeds, one Ruger 458 Win Mag and a full custom 416 Rem Mag on oh GOD ..yes a Model 700 action.

When I went into the long grass after a wounded Cape Buffalo I had my 416 Rem Mag, with the Rem 700 action. I praticed with this rifle regularily before I went.

When we walked up on my Buff and he just got to feet, I put four 400 grain solids through his vitals as fast as I could work the bolt.

I have no qualms using any of my rifles, either they be CRF or push feeds. Go over your rifle completely, and pratice using it.

Regards.. Jim P.

Jim: Thank you for your post and your good information...I instantly stopped thinking about CFR/PF differences when you got to:

quote:

Originally posted by PAHunter:
When I went into the long grass after a wounded Cape Buffalo I had my 416 Rem Mag, with the Rem 700 action.

It can be exciting can't it...All rifles are great...but the excitement and adrenalin is in the chase...(good account of the proper use of a rifle)...

rwj,

I have used a Rem model 700 8mm mag since I was 12 years old. I have killed every animal in Alaska with it except bison, polar bear, muskox. One year I killed every species that didn't require a draw permit. I have NEVER had one problem with the rifle except for when I let it get dirty. I for don't understand all the crap about the CRF vs. the push feed. Or brazed on bolt that could fall of at any second. I have owned. 375 ultra mag in REM model 700 stainless/synthetic for 4 years now. Absolutely love the rifle. Got it muzzle braked and have the Remington R3 (?) pad on it. It shoots like a dream and is Incredibly accurate. At 45 yards, all the bullets touch each other. You will do just fine with buying your bro the .375 model 700. Glad to hear that so many people are hunting with such a crappy rifle. Must be something that we like about them.

I have a 375 Remington from the Custom Shop, purchased new in 1984. I have never had a problem with feed and function. I have always thought that using the gun on the range and for local game to the point that a person was positive it functioned correctly all the time is much more important than CRF. I own a couple Winchesters in CRF but do not find any advantage in function with this feature.

Northway: Sounds like you have plenty of real good Alaskan experience with your M700s..I have been looking for a M700 with the R3 Limbsaver recoil pad but have not found one yet...Thank you for your advice and your opinion on the M700.

buckeye: Thank you for your review...

Millions of M700's have been sold, that pretty much says it all. My son has a new M700 in 30-06 and I must say it's very slick and positive (though I do hate that J-lock).

The slickest and most reliable bolt action I've ever owned is my pushfeed M77 in .458 Win. It's 100% reliable in feeding/extraction/ejection and a remarkably smooth standard length action.

458: I have to agree that millions of M700s have been sold and that does say it all..I do not know about these j-locks, but my brother Will, who the .375H&H is for, owns a .300 RUM and my hunting partner (who used a .375 RUM on his brown bear), have no complaints with regard to the j-lock (they unlocked them and kept them that way).

But I did and do take the observations by ovis and Palmer seriously.

Your M77 sounds like a great rifle..I will have to look up a M77.

rwj & others,

I really cannot emphasize enough, that if you're going after game that bites back, spend the $$$ + or -$50 and replace the j-lock; they are prone to failure.......it takes five minutes to make the change yourself and you'll get a better spring assembly in the deal. I believe that Remington is no longer going w/the j-lock, at least that's what the rep told me.

Joe

Joe: I gathered that is what should be done from your initial post above...I will follow your advice. Thank you.

You people are making me nervous as hell I ordered my encore in 375 H&H after reading all the subjects about will jam on reloading feeding ect. I starting to think about a belt feed full auto. Really I am starting to think about a lever action did Savage make one in 375.