Other than useing solids to shoot a wounded bear on the other side of a root wad or log I see NO use for a heavy bullet is an over .40 cal rifle for hunting or stopping brown bear . the 270 gr. bullet tips bears over as fast or faster than the 300 gr in the 375. and shoots flatter. Yes the standard old African loads will work on bear but their primary use for me is reduced meat damage for something I want to eat and enough thump for a bear. Steep trajectories and heavy recoil are thier companions tho . Ya know how fast a 411 -458 cal. 300 gr X bullet @ 2500fps impact velocity or more ,kills in in bound bear .At the speed of gravity. dead weight gravity.. If your comeing to coastal Alaska to shoot a brown bear , Bring a 416 Rem mag. w/300 gr. X bullets @ 2850-2950 fps with a synthetic stock. Coat the guts of it with Corrosion Block Bring a good 1 or 1.5 - 4-6x really bright skookum scope and a spare scope all set up and pre sighted in."that way you know it fits your mounts. If you want to bring the absoulute classic Alaskan Bear Rifle bring a 375 HH or one of the improved versions with 270 gr TSX. Whatever you bring Ya darn well better be able to use it well. And know all its likes and dislikes before you attempt to take such a world class animal as a Brown bear. 30 caliber rifles are for girls who have men solve thier problems.. gumboot out.

Now don't be shy.

Let us know how you really feel.

And welcome to AR.

I like stirring the pot once in a while but slamming the 30's? They work, why slam them? grant it, I like a bigbore for a big critter but come on. a good 30 with a good bullet in the hands of a good hunter. its meat in the pot.

each to there own.

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
Other than useing solids to shoot a wounded bear on the other side of a root wad or log I see NO use for a heavy bullet is an over .40 cal rifle for hunting or stopping brown bear . the 270 gr. bullet tips bears over as fast or faster than the 300 gr in the 375. and shoots flatter. Yes the standard old African loads will work on bear but their primary use for me is reduced meat damage for something I want to eat and enough thump for a bear. Steep trajectories and heavy recoil are thier companions tho . Ya know how fast a 411 -458 cal. 300 gr X bullet @ 2500fps impact velocity or more ,kills in in bound bear .At the speed of gravity. dead weight gravity.. If your comeing to coastal Alaska to shoot a brown bear , Bring a 416 Rem mag. w/300 gr. X bullets @ 2850-2950 fps with a synthetic stock. Coat the guts of it with Corrosion Block Bring a good 1 or 1.5 - 4-6x really bright skookum scope and a spare scope all set up and pre sighted in."that way you know it fits your mounts. If you want to bring the absoulute classic Alaskan Bear Rifle bring a 375 HH or one of the improved versions with 270 gr TSX. Whatever you bring Ya darn well better be able to use it well. And know all its likes and dislikes before you attempt to take such a world class animal as a Brown bear. 30 caliber rifles are for girls who have men solve thier problems.. gumboot out.

Thats got to be one of the stupiest things I have ever read...

quote:

30 caliber rifles are for girls who have men solve thier problems.. gumboot out.

WOW! I think this went right over my head--whoooosh! still scratching my head.

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
Other than useing solids to shoot a wounded bear on the other side of a root wad or log I see NO use for a heavy bullet is an over .40 cal rifle for hunting or stopping brown bear . the 270 gr. bullet tips bears over as fast or faster than the 300 gr in the 375. and shoots flatter. Yes the standard old African loads will work on bear but their primary use for me is reduced meat damage for something I want to eat and enough thump for a bear. Steep trajectories and heavy recoil are thier companions tho . Ya know how fast a 411 -458 cal. 300 gr X bullet @ 2500fps impact velocity or more ,kills in in bound bear .At the speed of gravity. dead weight gravity.. If your comeing to coastal Alaska to shoot a brown bear , Bring a 416 Rem mag. w/300 gr. X bullets @ 2850-2950 fps with a synthetic stock. Coat the guts of it with Corrosion Block Bring a good 1 or 1.5 - 4-6x really bright skookum scope and a spare scope all set up and pre sighted in."that way you know it fits your mounts. If you want to bring the absoulute classic Alaskan Bear Rifle bring a 375 HH or one of the improved versions with 270 gr TSX. Whatever you bring Ya darn well better be able to use it well. And know all its likes and dislikes before you attempt to take such a world class animal as a Brown bear. 30 caliber rifles are for girls who have men solve thier problems.. gumboot out.

For a guy who knows everything, you sure are stupid.

+1 !!!!!! I think somebody just showed him a computer for the first time!

quote:

Location: N.E. Chichagoff island

Can't even correctly spell where you're from, eh? Don't worry, everyone's entitled to their opinion here. It was worth what I paid for it.

Do you guide DSMF'ers for brownies or do you patch up bear rugs peppered full of .30 caliber holes?

MM

There arn,t too many people who know what a DSMF is and this probably isn,t the place to spell it out. Lets see,there was the at least 4 shot 30 06 Bandit bear. The 3 shot 300 mag bear that ran off , Over near the white rock road there was a 4 shot 300 h and h bear oh ya , It ran off and at the 4 corners there was a 2 shot 300 h& h bear , that one ran off too. In Appleton cove a 7 ' boar was shot behind the shoulder angleing fwd with a 300 win mag factory fedral N P 180 gr fm 60 yrds. Friend watched the bullet hit .Then the bear looked at the guy who shot him and started to run when a 416 swift bullet flipped it upside down.. dead .It would be easy and tire some to go on and on and on and on andon ect.about how the 30 cals. are un reliable when it comes to bears. Some other letters are DRT I,ll spell that out it means Dead Right There. That is what I like. If you know what a dsmf is then you should know what a cull is also.. Don,t be one. Use a man,s rifle..gumboot out

To "gumboot out" -
Learn to type, learn to spell and learn to punctuate your words and sentances. It will help people understand you.

It is easy so take your time and do it.

On rifles and bullets, you are somewhat correct, but present such a poorly stated opinion that it is hard to take you seriously.

I assume DSMF is the more vulgar way of saying "Dead Right There". Glad you learned the correct version in your last post.

Oh brother....

Now there's a shot across the bow........

Even if he does spell and punctuate his posts correctly, he's still wrong. More brown bears have been killed with .30's than any other single caliber for many moons!

Where Phil (458Win) when you need him.

To Dogcat, no DSMF has nothing to do with dead right there. You would have to be from here to know what it means. That is in no way a slam, Its like the word HAA EHH . ,kind of got to be from here to know what it means .But they don,t in any way mean the same thing... Timber beasts have their own language pretty much. That is why I spelled out what DRT ment . Brown Bear , and the hunting of them is an issue I,m fairly passionat about . I also live and hunt and work in the forests of coastal Alaska .This fall , right accross the bay from where I live there have been 3 reported bear woundings , of different bears. That I know of all have been in conjunction with deer hunting. All the stuff you read about [dinner bell bears], most of it is true. You shoot a rifle where a bear is during deer season and sometimes a bear comes a running. The law says we have to act like a liberal and give the bear our deer. Sometimes things are so close and happening too fast and a bear gets shot. Sometimes a hunter gets mauled. Usually if you hit a bear even with a smaller caliber rifle it will run off. So in a sense your smaller cal. rifle worked . Just don,t think that bear died, or if it died it was a humane death. That is my point about larger caliber rifles. They kill deer almost as fast as a small rifle like a 308 or 270 , they usually don,t ruin much meat and they reliably kill bears quickly. In my neck of the woods Elmer Kieth was more intelligent that Jack O,Conner.. Thank you for the advice on typeing.I put my back out 4 days ago and yall have benifited form my laying on the couch recoperateing.I Joke... gumboot out.

I was going to ask a couple of questions concerning the hunting of those bigger bears in Alaska but I was a bit shaken by the first post.

My wife thought maybe we should float a loan next year and purchase the local 105 Howitzer at the local VFW hall. They got a tank to take its place. Anyway it is on wheels and I suppose you could even put pontoons on the side if need be. This should be enough to take care of any big time teddy in Alaska you think? TONK

My only question is....what the hell is DSFM?

DSMF? My guess would be Dumb Sh** Mother F*****

quote:

DSMF

Yeah, it can also mean Dumb Southern MF, meaning anyone from the Lower 48. It depends on just how dumb the MF is, or is acting. Some slack can be cut for the just plain dumb, but with Attitude, it becomes the latter MF'er.

They usually don't last long.

It means [Down South ,you can figure out the mf part] Its what we call seasonal workers who come up here ,take our jobs then act all manly even tho they winter in florida or oregon. They deplete Alaska and some of us red necks wish they would stay [Down South] BUT , its a free country.. as long as you have enough money .. HAA EHH. The 30 caliber thing tho , Its like someone running their gob about how great a 1911 is ,and after they spend 2 grand on one it stove pipes every 10th shot or less. neither are reliable . If they were, Jeff Cooper wouldn,t use a 460 G&A to hunt Cape Buffalo. And the FBI wouldn,t use 40 s&w,s .gb out

Looks like Morty's back but under a different moniker.

Bear in (Ya'll know Where)

I thought Monte was still in town, though I haven't seen him for a little bit. I also don't remember Monte being a logger.

While I know Monte comes across a bit over the top, the man knows guns and can shoot!

Paul, are you saying that gumboot doesnt? grin

Elmer Keith was more intelligent than Jack O'Connor?
You are a dumb stupid m#@#@r f@#@#r!

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
I thought Monte was still in town, though I haven't seen him for a little bit. I also don't remember Monte being a logger.

While I know Monte comes across a bit over the top, the man knows guns and can shoot!

Paul, you get that boat done yet??

Oh I wish! Hopefully I'll be able to finish up the interior this winter and get the exterior paint done this spring and hang some engines on it.

That said between working o/t and kids activities, I basically haven't touched it in 2 months

I'm not saying gumboot doesn't come across a bit over the top, just saying I don't think that's Monte.

I'm also glad that Alaska has characters, it would be a boring place without them.

quote:

I'm also glad that Alaska has characters, it would be a boring place without them.

got a chuckle out of that Paul. Never know who is around the bend and if you should stop and share some coffee. Me I like the solitude and the breeze.

Hi all .. Who is Montey ? . I know a Montey , He guided for quite a while, probably still does. He took alot of crap from alot of {cool} guides but there is only one guide that I know who gets more animals on the ground than he did. I think he did work in the timber industry , in the redwood country , I think he built road.. He wasn,t a timber beast as we count them here. Any resident or 2nd degree that can bring their resident and come on down I,ll take bear hunting .. Bring your little guns . I can probably get you within close range of a good bear and lets see how your little gun works. Then when they run in the brush , YOU can go first.. But no shooting beyond 20 yrds and no head or spine shots. The big selling point for little guns is ease of shooting .Which in turn theareticaly produces better terminal accuracy. Lets see the theory put into practice. You should be able to clean the top right off their heart . I knew an old troller who shot 7 bears in Peril Strait one morning in the 1950,s while he was trolling for early kings. He used a 30/40 Krag with milatary 220 gr solids. I knew he had other rifles and I asked him why he used that. He said he liked it because he would shoot them in the lungs and they would run up in the brush. If he used his 405 they would usually fall on the beach. You can get right up close to the beach in alot of places there.. But ,he was an Alaskan. Didn,t wait around for everyone else,s opinion.. Don,t see many of you {Golden Hearters } down here tho . I think it has something to do with the denseness of the jungle here.. Well I hope you have fun where ever you hunt.. I don,t think O Conner ever hunted in southeast either. Keith did tho. He shot a 9 1/2 foot bear in Sitkho Bay . O Conner didn,t invent bullet types. He didn,t come up with ballistic theroyies , that do provide at least part of the answers,.Like Pondoro did . O Conner didn,t help keep the spark for double rifles alive. He didn,t design handguns, Kieth did. And,, the 270 relly is a darn good coyote rifle. Kieth was more intelligent than O Conner . Now O Conner was probably a great guy and probably did lots for wild sheep . Ide like to shoot one this comeing fall.Well there ya have er. gumboot out.. Build the road.Juneau to Skagway!!!

LOL......no head or spine shots? What the hell kind of rule is that?? If I am within 20 yards of a big brown bear you can bet your ass that i'm shooting him in the spine, rather i'm carrying the 270 or the 375. You have quite the sense of humor, I will give you that much.

Gumboot,

Nice town, but too close to Juneau for my taste. That part of Chicagof has extra bear season restrictions due to the proximity of the capitol.

Good fishing and good whale watching around there.

I helped a buddy shot his brown bear in Sitkoh Bay a few years back. We hung out with the caretaker at the old cannery. Nice guy, I went back with my wife and youngest and just visited, I think he was sort of lonely. I was sad to find out he had left back to the lower-48.

I'm seriously considering hunting the west side of Chicagof this spring. Stayed a couple days at White Sulpher Springs cabin before, and notice the lack of traffic. Some fairly protected waters, once ya get in there.

Way to much traffic in Peril, although it does pay off sometimes.

Since ya got the time, write some cool stories about your time in S.E. Alaska.

gumboot
you statement on 30 cal has told me a great deal !!!
I guess that makes PHIL SHOEMAKER a girl...thats a big statement.
its called shot placement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
if you shread the liver/lungs/ heart, or break the shoulder the bear will NOT go far weather its a 27 cal/7mm/30 cal

regards daniel

quote:

30 caliber rifles are for girls who have men solve thier problems.. gumboot out.

Very first post on AR and he makes an idiot out of himself. I hope this doesn't drag out too long.

Now I'm really convinced that it's Morty in drag.
Bear in (well, ya'll know where)

quote:

Jeff Cooper wouldn,t use a 460 G&A to hunt Cape Buffalo. And the FBI wouldn,t use 40 s&w,s .gb out

With all due respect to the late Jeff Cooper, some of what he wrote about cape buffalo is nothing but rubbish.

People like him should have stuck to talking about pistols, and not dream up silly ideas about hunting cape buffalo.

I remember him saying cape buffalo are so dangerous, one in 10 always charges you!!

Well, out of the thousands that I have seen and over the 100 that I have shot, none has charged us.

Obviously they have not read his piece.

Going back to the 30 caliber. I have a friend in Tanzania who kills all his buffalo with a 308 Winchester, using ammo I load for him.

He never had any problems.

30 caliber rifles are for girls who have men solve thier problems

Just when I thought you had posted the most ignorant thing ever, you just keep on going!

Lets see,there was the at least 4 shot 30 06 Bandit bear.

The facts don't tend to support your statement. If you are unsure of, or do not know what you are talking about, you might want to leave it alone.

It would be easy and tire some to go on and on and on and on andon ect.about how the 30 cals. are un reliable when it comes to bears.

Again, I like the way you do not let the little things like the facts interfere with your statements.

Timber beasts have their own language pretty much. That is why I spelled out what DRT ment

I wasn't aware that D.R.T. originated in the S.E. Alaska logging communities!?!? This is probably going to be news to quite a few people.

The law says we have to act like a liberal and give the bear our deer. Sometimes things are so close and happening too fast and a bear gets shot. Sometimes a hunter gets mauled. Usually if you hit a bear even with a smaller caliber rifle it will run off. So in a sense your smaller cal. rifle worked . Just don,t think that bear died, or if it died it was a humane death. That is my point about larger caliber rifles. They kill deer almost as fast as a small rifle like a 308 or 270 , they usually don,t ruin much meat and they reliably kill bears quickly.

Again, don't let the little things like the facts stand in your way!


The 30 caliber thing tho , Its like someone running their gob about how great a 1911 is ,and after they spend 2 grand on one it stove pipes every 10th shot or less. neither are reliable . If they were, Jeff Cooper wouldn,t use a 460 G&A to hunt Cape Buffalo. And the FBI wouldn,t use 40 s&w,s .gb out

And now, suprisingly enough, you believe 1911 pistols are unreliable? You are embarrassing us and humiliating yourself.

Have you guys actually read much of 458wins articles in Rifle and Handloader.. I save his articles and if I,m trying to decide if it is worth buying , that trip to town , then I check to see if he wrote an article in them.If he did I,ll buy ,If not ,mayby. I,ve been checking to see if any of yall who say i,m stupid have any volume of of data on specific instances where the little guns worked substantially better than a bow and arrow.. I,ve never heard of anyone purposelly shooting anything in the liver which means that if you can,t smash the shoulder, then a lung shot is a lung shot. but i,m not going to be so brash as to say that a bow and arrow is a good backup weapon for bears hence ,,so much for the little guns.. So aside from my statement about 30 cal. and femms no one has disproved my original statement of a bear hunting rifle.. But ,on the other hand most guides do enjoy the rush of pulling a trigger on a bear. Bring the little guns. Ya know the Swedes figured out that the 6.5 swede with 156-160 gr bullet kills moose about as fast as the 06. Probably as fast as the 300 win mag. O. k. since Ive never met super man with an 06 and any one with a brain in thier head advocates useing {enough gun when hunting dangerous game. }..... This could get nasty,, The term I,m right and your wrong just leaps to mind .. And on top of that .. Where is the argument. I had a friend who shot a 8 plus foot bear with his 06. fm about 80 yrds with a 180 gr. partion. while it was grazeing between Kathren Island and Baranof Is. The bear stood there for a minute and fell over dead.. Thats great , but it doesn,t make the 06 a bear cartridge. Would the same shot worked on a bear that was stalking him and then charged ? Or if he bumped into a good size old boar who had just lost a fight. { I don,t care how big your rifle is that is a particularly scarry thing.}The 06 or 7 mag will generally handle the ideal situation but seldom when everything goes wrong. My current 416 Rem with scope ,fully loaded weighs 10 lbs 2 oz. with 300 gr X bullets at around 2900 fps it kicks about like a non muzzel broke 338 w/200 gr bullets. And a 338 /200 gr load @ 2900 kicks just like a 300 win with the same load.. But I have confidence in it to solve most problems as long as I do my part. Which is easy to do.. Well there ya have er , gumboot out. .

quote:

Going back to the 30 caliber. I have a friend in Tanzania who kills all his buffalo with a 308 Winchester, using ammo I load for him.

Saeed
What bullet do you load for him?

I have a favorite Rem 600 is 308 win that I have been considering for a Brown Bear Huntprobly with 180gr TSX what do you think about this combo?
Thanks
DR B

gumboot. If you truly believe that a 30-06 or a 300 WM with a quality bonded bullet such as an A-Frame or a TSX in a 180 grain or 200 grain configuration wont break through the shoulder on a brown bear and scramble vitals, then you sir are very misguided.

You know, I found out quite some time back that just because something is written in an article, doesn't automatically mean that that particular fact is the only applicable piece of information available.

But if you need specific data to back up the fact that the 30 caliber is the most common hunting caliber used in Alaska.

The following survey of Alaskan Hunters chart is from the Alaska Department of Fish and Game site located on the net at: http://www.alaskabears.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=huntin...n.hntbul8#cartridges.

ALASKA TOP TEN CARTRIDGES
Cartridge # of Hunters %
.30-06 387 20.9
.300 Win. Mag. 342 18.5
.338 Win. Mag. 339 18.4
7mm Rem. Mag. 157 8.5
.375 H&H Mag. 116 6.3
.270 Win. 108 5.8
.308 Win. 65 3.5
.300 Weath. Mag. 64 3.5
45-70 Gov. 25 1.4
.280 Rem. 20 1.1

You may also want to check this site:
http://www.wildlifenews.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=huntalaska.firearms

Now does this information mean that these are the only calibers that are appropriate for large game hunting in Alaska? Of course not, but it does reveal that the 30 caliber is still an effective round for the job at hand.

My first brownie was an 9 foot bear which I put down with a .308. The first shot to the head dropped it like a bad habit. Now I don't pretend to state that I believe everyone who doesn't use a .308 to hunt bear is somehow less than a man. That would be an ignorant, untruthful statement on my part. Further, I do not normally use the .308 to hunt brown bears. But that is what I had at the time. However, I am confident enough in my shooting ability, that I would not dismiss any proven round out of hand. I normally choose the appropriate rifle for the job at hand. I hunt with a .338 WinMag or a .45-70, depending on what and where I will be at, and what I will be doing.

If you feel that a larger caliber may, in some fashion, compensate for some type of concern, or perhaps the larger caliber makes you more confident in taking down a brown bear, so be it. Whatever the reason I wish you the best with your choice.

However, I must reflect back on the title of this string "Brown Bears Aren't Elephants" and wonder why you seem to want, or need, a firearm capable of taking down an elephant to hunt a bear.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:

quote:

Going back to the 30 caliber. I have a friend in Tanzania who kills all his buffalo with a 308 Winchester, using ammo I load for him.

Saeed
What bullet do you load for him?

I have a favorite Rem 600 is 308 win that I have been considering for a Brown Bear Huntprobly with 180gr TSX what do you think about this combo?
Thanks
DR B

Solids from around 164 to 180. Some are FMJ bullets and some we make ourselves on a CNC lathe.

I asked him if he had noticed any differences, he says no, they kill equally well.

DRT brown bear rifle?

Gumboot likes to carry enough rifle to drop a brown bear in its tracks, and he advocates that trophy hunters carry enough gun and know how to use it so that the guide doesn't have to finish the job started with one of the 30 calibers, and prevent the bear running off to die in the bush. Perhaps some do, but I suspect that most guides don't like following up a bear shot by a client, whether the wound is fatal or not. If the bear is running when last seen, I think it would be a tough call to know for sure that the bear will be dead when found. Maybe – maybe not. A little more adrenalin rush than most of us want.

The guides I know, generally plan on shooting too, after the client’s shot, unless the bear is obviously finished. Most of the guides use 375 H&H and bigger calibers for such a task as backup. One master guide showed me his backup rifle, a well used Mark X Mauser in 458 Win Mag, and told me that he likes the Federal 400 gr. His words were “it dumps umâ€.

I wouldn’t say it in the same way as Gumboot did, but I will say that I feel far more comfortable hunting black tail deer with my 338, 9.3x62, or 375, than I do with my 30-06 or my 300 H&H. As a deer rifle, I really like my 30-06, and believe the bigger calibers mangle too much meat, so often I’ll hunt with the 30 calibers. They are so pleasant to shoot, compared to the hard kickers. Mostly I try for head and neck shots, to save the most meat.

If I'm hunting alone, or with my step-son who doesn't carry a rifle, (he's the packer) I usually carry the bigger calibers, but when I'm hunting with a relaible buddy, I'll most likely carry the 30-06.

I firmly believe that the 30-06 or any of the magnum 30 calibers can end a confrontation with a brown bear quickly, if everything goes well, right shot placement, etc., although it may take several shots. But, I have heard from good sources several accounts of the bear running off after being shot with one of the 30 caliber rifles, and found dead later – rotten, etc., partially eaten by another bear, ravens and eagles. The most notable story I heard of the bear running off to die, and found later rotten, and partially eaten, was with a 300 WSM using 165 gr bullets. And another practical concern is that there is always a chance of someone encountering the wounded pissed off bear later, if it doesn't die. In 30 caliber, by far I prefer 200 gr or heaver in the Barnes TSX or the Swift.

This past summer I saw at least two bears that most likely had been wounded. I saw one of them several times on the beach. He had a bad limp, and couldn't walk on one of his fore legs. It could have been a fighting injury, but I think the bear had been shot, and I think I know who did the shooting. I wouldn't want to run into either bear in a close encounter, and both bears were skinny, and obviously not doing well.

One of the most interesting Alaska stories I ever heard was told to me by one of the true old timers who came to Alaska before it was a state. He was a believer in the 270, as the answer to everything rifle. Naturally you would have to have been there to fully appreciate the story and the old gentleman who told it to me. He died several years ago, and he was one of the real hunters. He used to pack, two or three weeks at a time in August, into the Wrangles to hunt sheep before most of it became a park or something. He and his partner would bone out the sheep, and eat a large portion of it on the long pack out. His words were that the 270 is excellent for sheep, but it ain’t a bear rifle.

He said once when he was hunting moose, and saw a large brown bear across the bog and grass, about 100 yards away. It wasn’t too far to pack to the road, so he decided to take it with his 270, and placed a shot right into the heart/lung area behind the shoulder. He said he believed it was the worst hunting mistake he ever made. The bear spun around, making a god-awful roar, biting at the spot. So he shot it again. The bear spun the other way, and then figured out where the source of the pain was coming from, and charged. My old friend said he emptied his rifle, a custom Winchester pre-64, and the bear was still coming. The next part is where you should have been there to hear it yourself. He said he was so unsettled, that he couldn’t hold on to the fresh ammo as he dug it out of his pocket, and had to pick it up off the ground. He said that the Winchester model 70 is the best action ever made, because he knows first hand that it would feed and fire with dirt, and grass stuffed in with the ammo. I’m sure he was embellishing a little, but the way he said it, I believed him – all of it. He said he finished that bear with a head shot about 15 feet away, as it was still coming for him. It was his seventh round, numbers 6 & 7, being loaded one at a time - grass, dirt, finger nails, and all. He said it was a long time before his knees quit shaking enough so he could walk. From that day on, his favorite Alaskan rifles were the 338 for sheep, and the 375 for moose and bear. Both were custom Winchester mod 70’s on pre-64 actions. The 338 had one of the early kevlar stocks when I saw it, and was a nice light mountain rifle. He still used his 270 sometimes, for wolves, and for deer and elk hunting in Montana.

What Gumboot is advocating is whacking a bear with enough bullet to blow a red mist all over the tundra on the opposite side, and the bear just rolls over and doesn’t get up. Since most folks don’t eat a brown bear, meat damage is not an issue. A brown bear is very susceptible to velocity, but only if the bullet also holds together to penetrate. He is saying that a bullet heavy enough to deal with the African big stuff, made for penetration, not velocity, is not the right bullet for a brown bear. That is why he uses the big bore Barnes X in relatively light weight for the caliber. The bullets have both velocity and hold together for penetration. Gumboot, uses an elephant rifle, but loaded with high velocity bullets. It’s a specialist rifle, for whacking a brown bear (DRT), and blowing a red mist all over the forest or tundra.

I’m no expert on the subject, having taken only one bear, with my 9.3x62. That bear went down, and wallowed about, bawled, roared, etc., until I shot him two more times to finish, but he certainly didn’t runn oft. While I respect Gumboot's DRT, red mist, elephant rifle, and his desire to must have one, I don’t agree with Gumboot, mostly because I don’t like muzzle breaks, and I don’t like heavy recoil. I just don’t want to deal with that much rifle, and generally I’m not hunting brown bear anyway. My only concern is avoiding trouble, and ending a bad encounter quickly. Most trouble can be avoided by being careful.

I believe that a 375 H&H is nearly perfect for the unfortunate encounter with a bad bear, and while the 270 gr Barnes is adequate, I wouldn’t mind it so much if the 300 gr. went all the way through, red mist and all. The 375 is about all the recoil I want, and I think I can put down a bear, and keep it down with one. This new 375 Ruger Alaskan is about perfect in my opinion, if a guy wanted to carry enough rifle to do everything Alaska has to offer. From the 260 gr. Accubond, to the 320 gr. Woodleigh, what more could you want? And, if you really want to, it’s an Elephant rifle too. I’ll bet there will be plenty of stories on its effectiveness on cape buffalo and other tough African stuff too - just like the 375 H&H.

I have to admit that I'm having a big bore built, somewhat because of Gumboot's influence, but also because for many years I have wanted one. I think the recoil will be tolerable, even though it's relatively light weight. If it kicks too much, I'll just use lighter loads, but I'll never put a muzzel break on it. It's a Ruger 77 barreled in 450 Marlin. Just for fun, and thump. I doubt that it's a red mist rifle, with velocity around 2000 fps, but I'll bet it will dump um, and I'm thinking it won't be too much of a meat mangler on deer. The 45-70 Marlin has a lot of respect in Alaska, but since I don't like lever guns, I'm having the equivilent built on a bolt action, and it will be just as handy, short and light, but with a better stock design.

KB

I'm just amazed that through genetics (has to be the answer) that nowadays we need a bigbore to kill a bear. Yes the larger calibers are great and will definitly drop a bear but come on, no way in hell I'm gonna carry a 10lb + rifle for a 1 in 1000 chance of being charged. I've been charged once and with all my time in the field, its not worth (going on percentage) my time in carrying a heavy gun. I'll stick with the 30's-35's, you paranoid folks can carry the artillary. I like bigbores but I dont use bears as a reason to get one. You folks should write for the gunrags when it comes to bigbores.

I will pass on to my buddy up north (chicken area) that hes all wrong. hes been using a 44/40 (and a few smaller) for critters. after 40 years he might welcome the info knowing hes wrong and in danger.