quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
My one safari hardly qualifies me for an opinion, but it was a "bad safari" by any modern counts.

1. We spent most days stopping to fix cattle fences.

2. A lot of the animals I had booked as extras (giraffe, eland, a second kudu) were not available, even though we saw tons of shootable old bulls.

3. I was asked to translate for the outfitter and another client. Which meant I got slung into the shitstorm between the two of them. If you speak another language in camp never admit it.

4. They had not intention of hunting most days before 9 am.

5. Not shooting from the truck was not an option.

6. The answer for any question I raised that they thought I was questioning their authority went "well I can take you back to Aroab, and you can find your own way back to the airport".

7. I had about $300 left in cash when we started to drive back to Windhoek. I gave it to the wife (cook). The PH told me over and over he didn't want a tip.

8. I had given the outfitter a pair of 20x80 Steiner Senators (he asked for them when I got there), and I had given him another $200-400 in cash when I left, I had actually lived in Europe when I went and had not given a lot of though to a tip. So I just gave them what I had.

9. A couple weeks after I got back I sent anything I owed for trophy fees and sent them an email via my bank. Heard nothing back.

10. About 3 weeks later I got an email from a guy in Germany claiming he had my trophies. He wanted $3500 right then, and if I didn't or couldn't pay it, he was going to raise the price every month for storage. I told him Coppersmith was the agent, not him as I didn't want them with me in Europe I wanted them sent to my folks house in Wyoming. He was going to get his money and eventually when he realized I wasn't going to pay he dropped the price to $2000-3000 and said find, I'll send them to your house in Spain and everything will be stuffed or rugged or whatever it needed. Money sent, nothing ever happened. This was a rookie mistake on my part, of course I never got the animals. I have no idea who the guy was, and this was in 2005 so the amount of information on someone was small.

11. The booking agent was Tony D'Costa, he told me when I called him to ask his opinion that he was retired, and it wasn't his problem.

I learned two things from my safari:

1. Never use a booking agent, unless you are going someplace you can't figure out on your own. More importantly never use a one man show booking agent.

2. Count on never seeing your animals again, hunt for the sake of hunting. I know people that have had their bighorn sheep trophies go missing after a hunt in Canada. It can happen.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
it is the client's responsibility to do his/her own due diligence, to check references, to make inquiries, etc. before booking a trip.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
This is the article "The Client" that I penned.

It appeared in The African Hunter magazine about two years ago and caused quite a lot of letters to the editor and emails.


The Client

I may be young, I may be old. Perhaps I am athletic and in shape or maybe a bit long in tooth and round in profile. I may come for lion and leopard or I simply come for an impala or a kudu.

Who I am is the international hunting client and what I am talking about should have been written long ago. It may be uncomfortable and frankly unpopular; nonetheless the topic needs to be broached.

We, the international hunting clients of the world fuel this industry, make no mistake. Without us the professional hunters of the world, whether good or bad, wouldn't be able to live the lives of their dreams. Only due to the client's collectively pursued passions are they able to walk daily amongst the magnificent antelopes and grim beasts of Mother Africa.

I am sure the professionals of which I speak will have some disagreement with this. I understand, and only bring these things to bear for stimulating thought......on both ends.

Somewhere along the way things, in my opinion, have gone horribly askew. On my last few trips overseas, I have begun to take notice of certain repeated behavior patterns displayed by some very well known professional hunters.

Some were in destinations I was only able to dream about in my younger years. Places of danger, places of intrigue. Fantastic places were hunted and some extraordinary creatures were pursued, successful pursuits in most cases.

I have come to the conclusion that "they" (some PHs) now somehow think it (international sport hunting) is all about them. We the sport hunting community are guilty, guilty of creating some of these ego driven, self-promoting personalities. Some of us are willing to even pay a premium to go afield with the "stars" of the industry. Why?

After you are safely aboard the charter on your way out of camp, you are the brunt of stories, jokes and anecdotal fowl ups for the next wave of "stumbling halfwits." We willingly plop down a year’s salary or more for the hunts of our lifetimes. It matters zero to them if you show up prepared physically and mentally, if you’re able to shoot, and you can see the animals. You will be treated the same as a first timer that stumbles around homesick for 21 days with your muzzle pointed at the back of their head and complains, of blisters, the heat or no ice for their cocktails.

I have formed these opinions from my own and unique position of experience. Having 33 Safaris in 21 separate trips overseas I’ve hunted nearly all sub-Saharan African countries and have collected the majority of her bounty. I am comfortable in my own skin and make no apologies. I claim no special hunting skills, only an ability to read people with an acute aptitude of situational awareness.

I write this in Heathrow, on a layover coming back from a Botswana elephant hunt. I sat one day on this last safari, at lunch listening to a PH of record and another PH that was between safaris. They openly made sport of guys, guys just like me. Guys with business', guys with jobs or perhaps retired. We return home to our families. The professionals return to the bush and make sport of me and others to the next "client". Funny thing, in all the stories, the fools they speak of don't have names, just "client".

We never take a moment to think that they feel the same about us. I maintain it's time to quit the game when the names and the faces all become one long blur of pictures, hunting stories and blown shots.

These safaris mean far more to us than it does them. This may be the one and only chance many of us get to experience these places and pursue these beasts.

I have even discussed these thoughts with one of the PHs one evening around the fire. His take was this: we finish with the hunt, get on a charter and go back to our safe lives and leave them to clean up the messes we create with our poor shooting. There is probably a lot of truth to his statement.

The romance and traditions of Africa are a powerful aphrodisiac. It draws us back time after time. I know it has me. Personally, I take my responsibility as a sport hunter extremely serious. I show up fit, both physically and mentally. A 21-day safari is a long one, at times you must focus to take things one day at a time and keep your head in the game. I also bring only rifles I can shoot and take shots I am virtually certain I can make. The last thing I want is to wound something the next client or PH must deal with.

How many stories have we all heard about client’s wives, or even daughters? Think yours are any different? They are flesh and blood just as we are.

For some untold reason, the international hunting community has assigned a “Rock Star” status or hero worship to many of these PHs. Perhaps it’s because I can think of no other “sport” where we can participate, side by side with a Professional at anything.

It's November, the phone calls start and the emails arrive. They are asking about coming over for a visit between the hunting conventions. We feel honored to have a "Professional Hunter" actually want to stay at our homes. We buy them dinner, take them places, they drink our finest single malt. We may even try to help them and book more "bumbling clients". We take days off work or away from our businesses to entertain them. Maybe it makes us feel like we are in their inner circle or within their appreciated sphere of influence.

You actually believe that you are somehow different or special. We even see it as some kind of a badge of honor that a real professional hunter from Africa has chosen me as a friend. These are superficial friendships at the very best.

Come as a client, leave as a friend?

It may be hard for some to accept these concepts and learned them the hard way. I have many friends and acquaintances that go back to Africa every year and hunt with the same guys, the same guys that behind closed doors refer to one honorable, successful and admirable man as “a Gomer”.

Personally, I have decided to change my approach. Moving forward, I will no longer go alone and look for any sort of companionship from these guys. I will now go with a pal or my wife and treat them as they should be treated, as an employee of sorts. No real difference than your relationship with your taxidermist, your dentist or the guy you just bought your new F250 Super Duty from.

A trophy celebration in a foreign language.

Now, they can celebrate "their" successful kills and I can have my own celebration with someone who is genuinely happy for me. The attending PH can take as many high quality trophy photos of himself for self-promotion as he has taken of me, and I could not care less. I once hunted with a guy that never once took a photo on his camera with me in the shot. Seems kind of nuts, but that act alone gave me the awareness to start becoming a student of these behaviors. He showed me his iPod one evening in camp. All of his pictures were of he alone, no "client" to be seen. This particular “Professional” must see the client as no more than a tool to do "his killing" for him.

Honestly ask yourselves, could any one of these guys be successful enough in business to afford to pay for one of the safaris that they ridicule "us" on?

How about personal relationships, failed marriages, questionable vehicles and finances. I wouldn't trade my life for theirs for any amount of money. I also am sure they would say the same about my life. But we don't make fun of, nor ridicule them, do we?

Have you ever gone home early?

Have you ever finished a safari early? Have there been "suggestions" of perhaps side trips? Do these side trips usually require a trip home for some reason? I think many clients prefer to just "go with the flow" and not make mention of things that probably don't sit right with us. After all, you really do want this guy to like you, right? I use to feel that way, and would say nothing. "Hey Steve, do you mind if my wife, girlfriend, brother in law, whatever comes into
camp". Well, yes I do. I now just spit it out and keep communication as open and as honest as is possible.

I have never left a safari early, not at my own request anyway. It was suggested once that, I could go home early if I wanted. I didn't, but took the suggestion as he prefer I be elsewhere so rearranged my families trip home to the order of 2,800. for changing the prearranged itinerary.

I really feel that poor communication is the biggest component of a safari gone bad. You as the paying client cannot keep your mouth closed if something bothers you. You need to stop things right then, and tell the PH what it is you want, or don't want, or what he does is bothering you in some way. It is your adventure, you're paying the bill. As long as it's not something weird or increases their cost, it should be granted. If you being popular with this guy is more important than your satisfaction on this safari, by all means, be the nice guy.

Because of the aforementioned changes, I also no longer go to the same place with the same professional time after time. I now see more of what Africa has to offer and see. I have also noticed that the same animals behave differently from country to country and game management areas. I also get to experience many different hunting styles. I will have a much richer bank of experience to call upon for stories to my children and grandchildren.

Who's at fault here?

There is plenty of blame to go around here. I think we, the clients can possibly be overbearing at times in our invitations to the PH's to come and visit. This goes back to the hero worship or rock star thing stated prior. Conversely, the professionals could just as easily tell us, they are on a tight schedule, prior commitments, whatever. My personal belief is; it has devolved into a PH being able to pick and choose who he would rather spend a few days with while in America. Can't say as I blame them for that. I'm sure many clients are a bear to be around. Think about this; nearly 24 hours a day 7 days a week for up to 28 days, with a guy you really don't care for. That may very well include me, after all, you can pay anyone to be your friend.

I truly hope my words are read as they are meant. I only wish to help someone else not repeat the same mistakes in safari hunting I have made. Keep things friendly yet, impersonal. It can be difficult, basically living with a guy, you tend to look up to a bit and not personalize the relationship.

All these things being said, I have enjoyed every minute of every day while hunting in Africa, I have made, what I thought to be close friends. As long as I feel that way thats what's
important.

Could you just bring along a brick of .22s?

Does this one sound familiar? I have been asked by more than one PH if I could "just throw a brick of .22s, 12ga, .375 etc. ammo in my bag." I chose to not spend my vacation in some African jail or trying to explain away why I have not declared it. I also probably don't have a firearm that matches the stuff in my gun box. So, the answer is, "No", and it should be yours as well.

Why do you think it is that we get requests for things? Sometimes I think we just bring gifts along unrequested. iPods, Oakley sunglasses seem to be a popular request. I've been guilty as well.

Perhaps it's just me. Maybe I'm burnt out on these musings. Hunting in Africa should be pure: it's raw beauty and savagery, her primal killing fields. Not some popularity contest. I believe it has been corrupted, corrupted possibly by us, the clients.

A friend of mine coined this timeless and appropriate phrase.

"Africa is about the men and the dust and the diesel, it sticks to your skin and cannot be washed away, nor does it wain." Andrew Baldry

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
In the past, there were very few actual outfitters.

Who in most cases went hunting themselves, and checked whoever they were going to represent.

Those guarded their reputation very well, and dealt only with PHs they can trust.

Also, the PHs in those days were very proud of their profession, and did everything to make sure the client had a good hunt.

And don't forget the type of client in those days too.

Those who went to Africa took teh time to learn something about it before going.

Nowadays, the quality of all - clients, PHs and outfitters - is not what it used to be.

There are clients whose only interest is to brag about what he had shot - not really interested in hunting for its own sake.

PHs who barely had any experience culling a few unwanted animals on a farm, and they think they can provide clients with an experience they cannot forget. Many of them do not have even a small percentage of the experience of the clients they are guiding.

Outfitters who set up business as soon as they have been to Africa on a single hunt.

They think they know better than anyone else. They have become experts over night.

Luckily, we have the Internet today, and we can read both positive and negative hunt reports, and at least have the option of making our own minds.

Sadly, as with everything we do, there are a lot more people participating today than in any other time in the past. And that means we do have many people who really have no business getting involved in hunting in any shape or form.

Sometimes a client will do what he wants, no matter what he sees.

I remember an American hunter who wanted to participate in an illegal hunt in one country in Africa.

I sent him a message with all the details that what he wanted to do is actually illegal, in both the country he is going to be hunting, and ultimately in the US according to the Lacy Act.


His answer was "so what? Who is going to find out what I did?"

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Tell me, Mike and BWW and others, about references and their value. References are provided by the outfitter, PH, or the agent and they will only give out names of those who will give a postive report. While this will sell hunts, how valuable is it if any disappoited hunters and the enitre experience are kept hidden? What else is out there to get a blanced report?
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Tell me, Mike and BWW and others, about references and their value. References are provided by the outfitter, PH, or the agent and they will only give out names of those who will give a postive report. While this will sell hunts, how valuable is it if any disappoited hunters and the enitre experience are kept hidden? What else is out there to get a blanced report?
Cal

Hi Cal

I know I sound like a broken record, but the use of a qualified and responsible booking agent can filter the wheat from the chaff.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Tell me, Mike and BWW and others, about references and their value. References are provided by the outfitter, PH, or the agent and they will only give out names of those who will give a postive report. While this will sell hunts, how valuable is it if any disappoited hunters and the enitre experience are kept hidden? What else is out there to get a blanced report?
Cal

quote:

Reports off of here are a better solution

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Tell me, Mike and BWW and others, about references and their value. References are provided by the outfitter, PH, or the agent and they will only give out names of those who will give a postive report. While this will sell hunts, how valuable is it if any disappoited hunters and the enitre experience are kept hidden? What else is out there to get a blanced report?
Cal

I think you are right Cal, references are only worth what they are worth. Which many times isn't much.

Reports off of here are a better solution.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Tell me, Mike and BWW and others, about references and their value. References are provided by the outfitter, PH, or the agent and they will only give out names of those who will give a postive report. While this will sell hunts, how valuable is it if any disappoited hunters and the enitre experience are kept hidden? What else is out there to get a blanced report?
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Tell me, Mike and BWW and others, about references and their value. References are provided by the outfitter, PH, or the agent and they will only give out names of those who will give a postive report. While this will sell hunts, how valuable is it if any disappoited hunters and the enitre experience are kept hidden? What else is out there to get a blanced report?
Cal

I always ask for a reference from a hunter who did not make a kill last season. If that hunter feels that they had a good hunt despite not getting to pull the trigger I feel that it holds more weight. However I've gotten to the point where for the most part, with a few exceptions, I don't trust any guides or outfitters.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Tell me, Mike and BWW and others, about references and their value. References are provided by the outfitter, PH, or the agent and they will only give out names of those who will give a postive report. While this will sell hunts, how valuable is it if any disappoited hunters and the enitre experience are kept hidden? What else is out there to get a blanced report?
Cal

I always ask for a reference from a hunter who did not make a kill last season. If that hunter feels that they had a good hunt despite not getting to pull the trigger I feel that it holds more weight. However I've gotten to the point where for the most part, with a few exceptions, I don't trust any guides or outfitters.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Tell me, Mike and BWW and others, about references and their value. References are provided by the outfitter, PH, or the agent and they will only give out names of those who will give a postive report. While this will sell hunts, how valuable is it if any disappoited hunters and the enitre experience are kept hidden? What else is out there to get a blanced report?
Cal

I always ask for a reference from a hunter who did not make a kill last season. If that hunter feels that they had a good hunt despite not getting to pull the trigger I feel that it holds more weight. However I've gotten to the point where for the most part, with a few exceptions, I don't trust any guides or outfitters.

Surestrike:
Your opinion of booking agents is…
Just curious as guides, outfitters, and agents don't make a thing unless the hunt is sold. They are all in the same boat.
Cal

quote:

I'd have to have personal knowledge and a close working relationship with a booking agent before I'd consider using their services. I took a short and chilly dip into the booking agent world once upon a time. I worked for two years with one here in Denver. The experience soured me on the whole guided hunting industry. It also taught me to be able to spot the BS that gets slung by booking agents, guides and PH's all the time. And that BS is often thick and deep and odoriferous.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
That ^^^^^^^^ being said a good booking agent can save you a ton of trouble in the form of knowing the little details, and ins and outs, that you would have never thought of as a first timer or even an old veteran trying out a new hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
What I seek to know is where the line is drawn between "puffing" and outright lying. An attorney friend used the term puffing when a used car dealer tells you it is an outstanding car and a super deal. Such puffing is legal. Where lying is "The brakes are new" and they are worn to 20% is not legal.

Is there a line in the hunting world, and if so, where is it?
Cheers,
cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:

quote:

I'd have to have personal knowledge and a close working relationship with a booking agent before I'd consider using their services. I took a short and chilly dip into the booking agent world once upon a time. I worked for two years with one here in Denver. The experience soured me on the whole guided hunting industry. It also taught me to be able to spot the BS that gets slung by booking agents, guides and PH's all the time. And that BS is often thick and deep and odoriferous.

Without naming names, I (and I'm sure many others) would find your information valuable.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:

quote:

I'd have to have personal knowledge and a close working relationship with a booking agent before I'd consider using their services. I took a short and chilly dip into the booking agent world once upon a time. I worked for two years with one here in Denver. The experience soured me on the whole guided hunting industry. It also taught me to be able to spot the BS that gets slung by booking agents, guides and PH's all the time. And that BS is often thick and deep and odoriferous.

Without naming names, I (and I'm sure many others) would find your information valuable.
Cal

Without naming names, I'll say this. The agent I worked for is not a member on this site. The agent I worked for was probably as up front and honest as it gets in the booking industry. The agent I worked for was extremely knowledgeable and only booked for outfits in which there was firsthand knowledge.

It was the creepiness of the industry at large and some of the other guys that turned my stomach.

Here are some examples of crap that happens all the time.

Outfitters who advertise a fixed price to the booking agent and allow the agent to add on their commission at any rate they can get away with.

Traditionally an agent gets 15% of the daily fees and in some countries (South Africa) they also get a percentage of the trophy fees. Plus up commissions are a scam!

Jacking people on plus ups on charter fees. I've seen it done multiple times. I had some clients that got charged $1,000 each instead of sharing the $1,000 charter fee. They were shocked when they booked with me the next year and only had to pay the shared $1,000 fee in total.

Here is one that really pisses me off and I've had it done to me! Keeping lower paying clients away from areas that hold a known trophy animal. I actually had a PH bragging to me about how he talked a client out of shooting an 80Lb elephant once with all kinds of excuses about a large root cavity, not 100% sure about the legality of the location etc etc. but the real reason was because they had one of their high roller repeat clients coming in the next week.

I've been kept out of an area that I knew had a 44" hard bossed bull in it. I watched him for almost an hour the night before. When querying why we weren't hunting there in the morning I got a bunch of crap about how these buff move, they'll be in the area we are going in the morning, blah, blah, blah. The next day a rich Texas oil man shot that exact same bull exactly in the area where we'd seen him. I overheard the PH of the Texan thanking my PH for the tip on where to find the big bull. Big tippers/ repeat clients get priority on the good stuff.

Outfitters/ booking agents that knowingly sell hunts where there is no quota. Happens on leopard more often than you would believe. The client pays his daily fees and is merrily toured about the bush without the slightest intention of them ever seeing a leopard.

Booking agents that book hunters into areas with outfits they haven't ever met or have any firsthand information about.

Agents that sell a two buff 14 day hunt as a 7 day hunt for two hunters at a massive mark up.

Listing small buffalo bulls as rations quota then charging the client a full trophy fee. Let's the outfitter sell more buffalo, screws the client.

PHs that take a kick back from taxidermist and or snake a huge portion of the pack, dip and ship fees fir themselves. Little stuff like that.

Once again that being said not all outfitters and agents are snakes. But the industry seems to have a healthy population of vipers slithering around in it.

Don't even get me started on Alaska and Canada!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Saeed,

So you don't think wording like "Gratuity at hunter's discretion" is appropriate? To me this means that the hunters can leave a tip or not but that it is traditionally part of safari. Rather than this being interpreted as asking for tips upfront it might be interpreted as letting people from non tipping cultures understand that hunters on safari usually tip. It might save some embarrassment for those folks.

Mark

01. All air travel before and after the contracted period of the Safari
02. Accommodation and travel charges incurred before and after the contracted period of the Safari
03. Transfer by road from international airports to camp
04. Trophy fees for animals taken or wounded
05. All air charters
06. Gratuities to Professional hunters and other staff members
07. Preparation, packing, documentation and export of trophies


Mark,

Above is a perfect example of what I mean.

It is mentioned so the client is made aware that it is expected, and he better pay it.

I have no problem with tips, in fact, I think I might tend to over tip, where service provided is as expected or better.

I refuse to tip - or pay what hotels and restaurants call "service charge".

There has been occasions where I have crossed that off my bill, and refused to pay it, making sure the manager knew why.

I have had some reports from some of our members where apparently they are presented with a list of everyone in camp - with what is expected as a tip, and they were told this is normal.

The day someone does that to me on my last day in camp, I will throw it away, and not pay a penny, and never deal with that establishment again.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Surestrike:
Your post brings back memories.

My first Africa hunt in 1994 a young and talkative PH told me excatly what you state: larger trophies are kept for higher paying (and higher tipping) clients.

A fairly well-known Zim PH (who is advertised here) sold me a sable hunt (2005) for the "Trophy fee only" to entice me to take a sable. I did. The trophy fee was then $2000. I was billed $4500.

How about PHs doing everything possible to get extra income by stating the trophy is outstanding and it is small to medium at best. My Zim PH hunted Tanzania for a year and directed me to shoot a lion that didn't have much mane as the mane was pulled off from a life in the bush. I have him on video tape stating it was a 5-5 1/2 year old lion. After the fact I learned it was a sub adult at 2 2/12 years. (He is currently advertised here on AR but not in Tanzania any longer).

Alaska pilots charge flight time both ways but on the return trip they bring another party in and they are charged both ways, also.

I got BS'd by my 1997 Zim PH for a $500 airport pickup fee. The company didn't charge for this back then and through SCI hunt reports I found no one else paid the fee. It was just to get extra money when the owner was not around. He lost my business.

But, I still love going there and 2017 will see 1-2 trips over the pond.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Surestrike:
Your post brings back memories.

My first Africa hunt in 1994 a young and talkative PH told me excatly what you state: larger trophies are kept for higher paying (and higher tipping) clients.

A fairly well-known Zim PH (who is advertised here) sold me a sable hunt (2005) for the "Trophy fee only" to entice me to take a sable. I did. The trophy fee was then $2000. I was billed $4500.

How about PHs doing everything possible to get extra income by stating the trophy is outstanding and it is small to medium at best. My Zim PH hunted Tanzania for a year and directed me to shoot a lion that didn't have much mane as the mane was pulled off from a life in the bush. I have him on video tape stating it was a 5-5 1/2 year old lion. After the fact I learned it was a sub adult at 2 2/12 years. (He is currently advertised here on AR but not in Tanzania any longer).

Alaska pilots charge flight time both ways but on the return trip they bring another party in and they are charged both ways, also.

I got BS'd by my 1997 Zim PH for a $500 airport pickup fee. The company didn't charge for this back then and through SCI hunt reports I found no one else paid the fee. It was just to get extra money when the owner was not around. He lost my business.

But, I still love going there and 2017 will see 1-2 trips over the pond.
Cal

I still have a strong interest in hunting wild Africa. But the thought of actually spending the money, only to get slimmed again turns my stomach. It is very difficult for me when a PH knows my background yet they still pull their BS. I know what they're doing, THEY KNOW I know what they're trying to pull. But they have so little respect for any client they'll do it any way.

I have had to restrain myself on several occasions. If you are going to knock your PH out. You need to be sure you know the way back to camp. Known position and direction awareness is a serious consideration before knocking your guide unconscious. And I refuse to take anymore crap off of any of these arrogant pricks.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Does "soliciting" a tip include the space on every single restaurant credit slip that you will ever sign for "gratuity"? Sometimes I think all the protesting about and searching for reasons to complain about tips really translates to just being cheap.

Nothing wrong in tipping and nothing wrong in being cheap. Money is hard earned (and heavily taxed in the US) and a lot of guys hunting africa get all bought into the marketing story of them being the next great white hunter instead of just a client for a high priced discretionary vacation.

Not tipping at least for an American is being a jerk. Just budget it in your total cost of a safari and if it is not worth it find something else to spend the money on. But kind of matching some extreme expectation of tipping is joke. I have heard a few PHs talking about being tipped a double rifle. To me that is the other extreme of shootaway tipping his PH $50 and a game scout $600. Its an irrelevant standard no one normal client should be held too.

And on being cheap and tipping I observed some interesting stuff in coat check tipping in high end NYC restaurants. Whenever we went for business dinners the sales guys always were the biggest tippers. End of the dinner they would take out a $20 or $50 bill and tip the coat check girl. Every billionaire I ever had dinner with tipped like $3-$5 - maybe I hung out with a bunch of cheap value investors. But few finance billionaires for whom $50 or $100 was irrelevant ever frivolously tipped. They tipped inline for the service rendered.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Saeed,

So you don't think wording like "Gratuity at hunter's discretion" is appropriate? To me this means that the hunters can leave a tip or not but that it is traditionally part of safari. Rather than this being interpreted as asking for tips upfront it might be interpreted as letting people from non tipping cultures understand that hunters on safari usually tip. It might save some embarrassment for those folks.

Mark

01. All air travel before and after the contracted period of the Safari
02. Accommodation and travel charges incurred before and after the contracted period of the Safari
03. Transfer by road from international airports to camp
04. Trophy fees for animals taken or wounded
05. All air charters
06. Gratuities to Professional hunters and other staff members
07. Preparation, packing, documentation and export of trophies


Mark,

Above is a perfect example of what I mean.

It is mentioned so the client is made aware that it is expected, and he better pay it.

I have no problem with tips, in fact, I think I might tend to over tip, where service provided is as expected or better.

I refuse to tip - or pay what hotels and restaurants call "service charge".

There has been occasions where I have crossed that off my bill, and refused to pay it, making sure the manager knew why.

I have had some reports from some of our members where apparently they are presented with a list of everyone in camp - with what is expected as a tip, and they were told this is normal.

The day someone does that to me on my last day in camp, I will throw it away, and not pay a penny, and never deal with that establishment again.