quote:

Originally posted by Howard:
Is he an idiot because he said that? Or perhaps its just the requirement to put out x number of words per month to make a living?

A combination of both, almost certainly (grin).
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trax:
IF four years is the time estimate he was given and accepted, then I don't see the issue.

Nobody has complained about that. The only complaints have been that promised delivery dates have not been kept, repeatedly, not only by a few individual smiths but by so many that it really is not only expected but accepted and tolerated behavior by the custom gun industry at large.

Tolerated & Accepted behaviour, yes,but not necessarily because all those in the industry like things to be that way, but simply because one operator has no right to tell or force another on how to run his shop, nor is he responsible for how another operator chooses to run/ruin his own business.


The proof is the length of this thread and it being kept alive by so many stating that "this type of work takes time", "you should just be patient" etc . It's unfortunate really and as a advocate of the custom gun industry it saddens me because I know that many many out there are like Jorge. People who have money to spend and are willing to spend it on fine firearms but the performance, attitude and mindset of the people in the industry is such that they, potential customers, take their money elsewhere.

with the correctly chosen rifle builder, yes, one should be patient and trusting.
Its a simple fact, top grade work takes time...consider also his schedule,..your rifle is most likely not the only he's building in order to keep his business doors open.
Smiths that consistently do good work and do right by the customer, seem to do well.

There are smiths a customer should avoid, and there are also customers that a good smith would be wise not to do business with.

Hi Gasgunner: Thanks for the comments...Yes...I'm reasonably clean., but nobody's sterile. Any anecdote can "prove" a point.

Sometimes the stars (customer and gunmaker) just don't line up......been there....A lot of the negative comments are true...a lot of the others look like somebody's just trying to pick a fight in a telephone booth.

Reminds me...as a kid, listening to the men scream to each other about Ford vs Chevy...then somebody would throw in "Plymouth"... damn near fisticuffs!

But...There are/were gentlemen gun writers, O'Connor, Keith,Carmichael, Boddington, and many others come to mind...did I overlook Weiland?.....sorry!

You bring up an excellent point. Not all clients and gunsmiths are made for each other.

Terry

When it comes down to it, there are very few custom gun makers. I probably know of 2 I would have custom work for me in Dallas/Ft Worth, Texas. I am talking real custom not gun repair. There are +5 Million people in this metroplex. Not to mention the explosion in hunting & outdoors activities over the past 20 years.
There are just not enough good custom builders to meet demand. Wayne at AHR puts out a damn fine product however that offering does not require the hours that a fitted gun does.
Another issue is that only a very few makers can get the return on investment required to make a living in this business. I know a guy that is as good as most mentioned on these forums but I refuse to provide his name as he takes long enough to spit out my work today. His rates have over doubled over the past 10 years. I used to provide him all the parts and pieces for a project & he would have me a finished product in 9 months for $2K that was exquisite in form and function. Probably included 4-5 production inspection processes and personal fittings. That gentleman will take over 2 years these days.

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
When it comes down to it, there are very few custom gun makers. I probably know of 2 I would have custom work for me in Dallas/Ft Worth, Texas. I am talking real custom not gun repair. There are +5 Million people in this metroplex. Not to mention the explosion in hunting & outdoors activities over the past 20 years.
There are just not enough good custom builders to meet demand. Wayne at AHR puts out a damn fine product however that offering does not require the hours that a fitted gun does.
Another issue is that only a very few makers can get the return on investment required to make a living in this business. I know a guy that is as good as most mentioned on these forums but I refuse to provide his name as he takes long enough to spit out my work today. His rates have over doubled over the past 10 years. I used to provide him all the parts and pieces for a project & he would have me a finished product in 9 months for $2K that was exquisite in form and function. Probably included 4-5 production inspection processes and personal fittings. That gentleman will take over 2 years these days.

I live in the DFW area and know of no one. Had one who is very talented but had to go to the police to get him to return my property or money!

Gentleman
I just read through 4 pages of info on this topic.
and I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with Terry
I live in Canada so I can not speak for the US.
but in 30 years of dealing with gunsmiths I can say is far from good.
I am sure that there is good gunsmiths out there the problem is to find them.
The gun work I am talking about is not the upper end $6000 + custom work ,I am talking about a new barrel (octagon maybe) new caliber ,make it accurate etc.
Just the kinde work Joe who saved up a few thousand and wants to spend to have a nice gun .
In all my 30 year or so dealings with gun smiths I had 2 old time smiths that did a fine job ,one of them passed away and the other retired.
The other half a dozen where a nightmare.
Things like a octagon Lilja un threaded $1185.
Chamber reamer 1 year delivery time ,set head space on a Obendorf Mauser came back with .020Th head space,re barrel a 602 to 500AS 2years and it would not feed and on and on.
In my opinion the cost and frustration of finding a good gunsmith is far higher than saving you money and buy a top end factory gun.
And I am sad to say this is what I advise all the beginning shooters.

Regards Martin

Only after you get tired of spending your money on hookers, booze and drugs should you give it to a gunsmith. There's no point in completely wasting your hard-earned dough.

Yes but the hooker will give you various diseases to remember her by, the booze will give you cirrhosis, and drugs will fry your brain. At least with the gunsmith you just might end up with a nice rifle, pistol or shotgun and will have spent enough money so you can't afford VD, cirrhosis, or a fried nervous system. Just think of it as preventative medicine.

Jerry Liles

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Liles:
Yes but the hooker will give you various diseases to remember her by, the booze will give you cirrhosis, and drugs will fry your brain. At least with the gunsmith you just might end up with a nice rifle, pistol or shotgun and will have spent enough money so you can't afford VD, cirrhosis, or a fried nervous system. Just think of it as preventative medicine.

Jerry Liles

or the hooker could ride it like a kangaroo on a space hopper, the booze could mean that she agrees to do it for free and the drugs that she forgets she didn't charge you the morning after.

Half full Jery, half full mate.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Liles:
Yes but the hooker will give you various diseases to remember her by, the booze will give you cirrhosis, and drugs will fry your brain. At least with the gunsmith you just might end up with a nice rifle, pistol or shotgun and will have spent enough money so you can't afford VD, cirrhosis, or a fried nervous system. Just think of it as preventative medicine.


Jerry Liles

Might is a thin thread to hang on

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
Only after you get tired of spending your money on hookers, booze and drugs should you give it to a gunsmith. There's no point in completely wasting your hard-earned dough.

Now we're talking!!!

But spend the extra denero on an escort, they're younger, cleaner and fit.

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
Only after you get tired of spending your money on hookers, booze and drugs should you give it to a gunsmith. There's no point in completely wasting your hard-earned dough.

Unfortunately, at that point, yer off to see the Doc, odds are the cash is running low, yer layin low, and voluntary close contact with things that make loud noises..probly not in the cards, for just a bit...

Think I would find a gun builder next door to something like the Mustang ranch.

Spend a few days checking out both establishments, pay both businesses with cash, don't ask for receipts.

Then in a year or two you will not remember how much money you spent in each one, only the good times you had.