I nominate you for moderator of the new Synthetic Forum.

Oh what the heck. I'll aggrivate them anyway.

Here's my "custom" Ruger 308 / Hogue. It has a 12" twist #3 PacNor stainless barrel, Timney trigger, and is black and gray teflon coated to remove the shine, and it makes the action and feeding slicker too.

It's obvious where the money went on this project - all in the metal and glass. And it shoots just as good as I hoped for. It's a real bad weather go-to hunting rifle. Didn't cost a fortune either. Can't buy one of these over the counter, so that makes it "custom", and belongs under this forum heading just as much as a $50,000 walnut piece of work.

Pretty is as pretty does, and it's pretty to me. It shoots those Sierra 165gr Gamekings into a tiny little group, and will work for me out to 300 yds very well indeed.

BTW, when I instructed PacNor what contour to use, I had it turned so that it is a snug fit into the Hogue barrel channel. No fitting required - simply drop-in and tighten the screws, and take her to the range.

It's one less thing to worry about.

quote:

Originally posted by Nomo4me:
White/grey/black doesn't draw too big a ding on your man-card.
I've this one, and another on order for an XP-100 which will be black/grey white, mostly black.

I think McMillan likes the McSwirley for 2 reasons:
It hides a plethora of imperfections in the surface (a painted stock costs extra)
It gives folks a chance to personalize their toy

What recipe did you use for that stock? I have been wanting to restock my coyote gun but have been debating colors. I think that would be the perfect camo for the winter months here in WI.

I think it was 65/25/10 white, grey & black.

quote:

Originally posted by Nomo4me:
I think it was 65/25/10 white, grey & black.

Thanks!

I have posted this one before. My "Semi-Custom", Sako 75 action, Lother Walther barrel, chambered 260rem.

Stock is Black, Tan, Olive, 50/25/25.

Change is the spice of life...it appears that a wood stock is the only wood they get!






Claret_Dabbler, nice looking rifle and good shootin!

Ordered:
CZ 550 Classic MARBLE -- 34% OLIVE / 33% BLACK / 33% WOODLAND BEIGE

Will post pictures when it arrives

KB

quote:

Originally posted by thecanadian: I have been wanting to restock my coyote gun but have been debating colors. I think that would be the perfect camo for the winter months here in WI.

Here's one of my Wi coyote camos.......75% light gray 25% black

quote:

Originally posted by jim62:
And even an Echol's Legend rifle would look cheap with a McSwirly color scheme on the stock. Which is why you most likely will never see one.

I beg to differ on that one. This is one of a very few in existence, perhaps the only one, on my M70 Classic Stainless 358 Norma.

Rick....Awesome chambering, awesome gun & cool stock....Looks good!

quote:

Originally posted by RickF:

quote:

Originally posted by jim62:
And even an Echol's Legend rifle would look cheap with a McSwirly color scheme on the stock. Which is why you most likely will never see one.

I beg to differ on that one. This is one of a very few in existence, perhaps the only one, on my M70 Classic Stainless 358 Norma.

Are saying it's a Legend rifle or just a Legend stock?

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:

quote:

Originally posted by RickF:

quote:

Originally posted by jim62:
And even an Echol's Legend rifle would look cheap with a McSwirly color scheme on the stock. Which is why you most likely will never see one.

I beg to differ on that one. This is one of a very few in existence, perhaps the only one, on my M70 Classic Stainless 358 Norma.

Are saying it's a Legend rifle or just a Legend stock?

Terry

That's not a Legend rifle- just one of Echol's aftermarket Legend stocks. I am glad you are proud of it, but it proves my point.

It's the best way I know to make a $14,500 rifle look like a $1,400 rifle

It's a Legend stock. D'Arcy won't work in stainless.

Re the $14000 v. $1400 comment, I would give that more weight if we ever saw any of Jims actual in-the-field hunting pics.

Wood vs synthetic on a custom

I ordered a wood custom from Empire 5 years ago, and I am out $8500 for it.

I have ordered 3 customs on synthetics, and 4 months to 13 months later they were in my safe.

I'll stick with the synthetics from now on.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by RickF:
It's a Legend stock. D'Arcy won't work in stainless.

Re the $14000 v. $1400 comment, I would give that more weight if we ever saw any of Jims actual in-the-field hunting pics.

I have been hunting since for 30 years now.

I stalk and kill game just fine without having a stock colored like the toilet seat from a double wide trailer.

Like I said, there is a VERY good reason why Darcy would probably never put such a handle on a complete Legend rifle. Or expect anyone to pay $14,500 for it.

Funny, D'Arcy really likes this stock.

I own, and use, some pretty decent walnut. But all hunting conditions aren't created equal. When I subject a rifle to backpack frames, REAL wet conditions, horses and such? The walnut stays home.

quote:

Originally posted by RickF:
Funny, D'Arcy really likes this stock.

I own, and use, some pretty decent walnut. But all hunting conditions aren't created equal. When I subject a rifle to backpack frames, REAL wet conditions, horses and such? The walnut stays home.

I'm sure in your world, EVERYONE thinks that stock is just lovely.

If Darcy did say anything positive about the color, I'm sure he was being polite as he was taking your $$ for the stock blank.

The entire point of my comment is that it's different matter when his name is on a complete rifle he's trying to sell for $14,500. In that market, taste matters even when the stock is made of fiberglass.

Which is why your local Mercedes dealership does not sell cars in such color schemes.

As to merits of Walnut vs Glass stocks - that is NOT the topic of this thread, is it?

It's McSwirly color schemes.

quote:

Originally posted by jim62:

quote:

Originally posted by RickF:
Funny, D'Arcy really likes this stock.

I own, and use, some pretty decent walnut. But all hunting conditions aren't created equal. When I subject a rifle to backpack frames, REAL wet conditions, horses and such? The walnut stays home.

I'm sure in your world, EVERYONE thinks that stock is just lovely.

If Darcy did say anything positive about the color, I'm sure he was being polite as he was taking your $$ for the stock blank.

The entire point of my comment is that it's different matter when his name is on a complete rifle he's trying to sell for $14,500. In that market, taste matters even when the stock is made of fiberglass.

Which is why your local Mercedes dealership does not sell cars in such color schemes.

As to merits of Walnut vs Glass stocks - that is NOT the topic of this thread, is it?

It's McSwirly color schemes.

I'm not even sure where to begin to answer that Jim. But for entertainment I will.

First, you condescendingly say that D'Arcy was saying whatever he had to so that he could sell something. Then you explained your comment of taste and $14,500 rifles. The fact that you try to sell walnut stocks for a living would have nothing to do with your disdain for swirly stocks, huh?

THEN you feel the need to clarify that the topic of this thread was McSwirly color schemes. Funny, I thought that is what my first post on this thread was, until you took it sideways. And your point, which you just repeated, has nothing to do with the topic.

quote:

Originally posted by RickF:

quote:

Originally posted by jim62:

quote:

Originally posted by RickF:
Funny, D'Arcy really likes this stock.

I own, and use, some pretty decent walnut. But all hunting conditions aren't created equal. When I subject a rifle to backpack frames, REAL wet conditions, horses and such? The walnut stays home.

I'm sure in your world, EVERYONE thinks that stock is just lovely.

If Darcy did say anything positive about the color, I'm sure he was being polite as he was taking your $$ for the stock blank.

The entire point of my comment is that it's different matter when his name is on a complete rifle he's trying to sell for $14,500. In that market, taste matters even when the stock is made of fiberglass.

Which is why your local Mercedes dealership does not sell cars in such color schemes.

As to merits of Walnut vs Glass stocks - that is NOT the topic of this thread, is it?

It's McSwirly color schemes.

I'm not even sure where to begin to answer that Jim. But for entertainment I will.

First, you condescendingly say that D'Arcy was saying whatever he had to so that he could sell something. Then you explained your comment of taste and $14,500 rifles. The fact that you try to sell walnut stocks for a living would have nothing to do with your disdain for swirly stocks, huh?

THEN you feel the need to clarify that the topic of this thread was McSwirly color schemes. Funny, I thought that is what my first post on this thread was, until you took it sideways. And your point, which you just repeated, has nothing to do with the topic.

You keep AVOIDING MY POINT.

Obviously because you know I am correct and your fragile ego will not admit it.

That fact is practically NO ONE would buy at 14,500 Echols Legend if the stock was colored like a toilet seat or cheap bowling ball- period.

FWIW, I have NOTHING against glass stocks.I have a few synthetic stocks on my own rifles. I just have something against the TASTELESS LOOKING ONES.

The material a McSwirly is made from is NOT the issue here , it is the way they look. Which is- in a word- CHEAP.

As far as me having anything to do with selling or making wood stocks .. Trust me sir, I don't see the demand OR price of figured wood or custom wood stocks going down just because McSwirlys exist or folks like you buy them ..

That's like trying to say that Holland and Holland is somehow jealous of what Savage Arms makes just because they would never build rifles that look that ugly.

FWIW ,I would feel the same way about loud tasteless colored wood laminate patterns on an Echol's Legend. It would also look like hell on any $14K rifle. Just as your stock above would.

Since you apparently are the OP police on here , the original post asked for pics of swirlys. A "swirly" is fiberglass with molded in colours. Which is what I originally posted, a McMillan with molded in colours.

As far as them looking cheap, that is YOUR point, not THE point. THE point is people sharing photos of them for the OP. Remember him?

My fragile ego? Whether with a pre-64 fwt with a custom walnut stock, or a stainless swirly, my ego will be on a mountain this fall why you are sitting at your checkering cradle feeling superior.

With all your talk of$14,500 rifles, Holland & Holland and such, for you to call someone else a dummy is beyond ridiculous. Avoiding your point? You haven't proven the intellect to state a cognisant point. Lucky you are an artist...

quote:

Originally posted by RickF:
You really are clueless.

Since you apparently are the OP police on here , the original post asked for pics of swirlys. A "swirly" is fiberglass with molded in colours. Which is what I originally posted, a McMillan with molded in colours.

With all your talk of$14,500 rifles, Holland & Holland and such, for you to call someone else a dummy is beyond ridiculous. Avoiding your point? You haven't proven the intellect to state a cognisant point. Lucky you are an artist...

I'm not the OP police here at all. Not trying to be.

Just trying to keep your whinny self from changing the topic.

First, you claim my comment about McSwirlies on COMPLETE ECHOL'S LEGENDS RIFLES is somehow false based on the fact you bought a $600 Echols STOCK BLANK.

Apples and oranges - literally.

When your sad little ego cannot concede the point that Darcy would go broke trying to sell such McSwirlys on complete 14K rifles, you change the subject to the merits of glass stocks vs wood. Not even an ISSUE here. Period.

You keep getting your goofy ass kicked on the whole McToiletseat stock on a 14K rifle topic so then you change the topic.

Amazing.

quote:

Originally posted by jim62:

quote:

Originally posted by RickF:
You really are clueless.

Since you apparently are the OP police on here , the original post asked for pics of swirlys. A "swirly" is fiberglass with molded in colours. Which is what I originally posted, a McMillan with molded in colours.

With all your talk of$14,500 rifles, Holland & Holland and such, for you to call someone else a dummy is beyond ridiculous. Avoiding your point? You haven't proven the intellect to state a cognisant point. Lucky you are an artist...

Just trying to keep your whinny self from changing the topic.

First, you claim my comment about McSwirlies on COMPLETE ECHOL'S LEGENDS RIFLES is somehow false based on the fact you bought a $600 Echols STOCK BLANK.

When your sad little ego cannot concede the point that Darcy would go broke trying to sell such McSwirlys on complete 14K rifles, you change the subject to the merits of glass stocks vs wood. Not even an ISSUE here. Period.

You keep getting your goofy ass kicked on the whole McToiletseat stock on a 14K rifle topic so then you change the topic.

Amazing.

I never made that point, you decided I did. Go back, read SLOWLY, sound out the big words, and you might catch on.

THE point, was photos of mcswirlys. Not whether D'Arcy would go broke trying to sell them.

My ego was never part of this. Once you belittled a mcswirly, several times, it was watching you flop around like a bass with a fly in it's mouth. But that has proven far too easy.

quote:

Originally posted by RickF:

quote:

Originally posted by jim62:

When your sad little ego cannot concede the point that Darcy would go broke trying to sell such MC Swirlys on complete 14K rifles, you change the subject to the merits of glass stocks vs wood. Not even an ISSUE here. Period.

I never made that point, you decided I did. Go back, read SLOWLY, sound out the big words, and you might catch on.

THE point, was photos of mcswirlys. Not whether D'Arcy would go broke trying to sell them.

My ego was never part of this. Once you belittled a mcswirly, several times, it was watching you flop around like a bass with a fly in it's mouth. But that has proven far too easy.

You are the one posting pictures of your Toilet seat colored aftermarket stock and your average sized Elk.

Neither of which have ANYTHING to do with a genuine COMPLETE Echols' Legend rifle at 14K -do they?

You seem like you are ALL ego....

Which is why you cannot admit Darcy would GO BROKE selling Legend rifles @ 14k that had stocks colored like the one you've bolted to that m70 Barreled action of yours.

Which again, was the point of my first statement here you responded to.

quote:

Originally posted by jim62:
You are the one posting pictures of your Toilet seat colored aftermarket stock and your average sized Elk.

Neither of which have ANYTHING to do with a genuine COMPLETE Echols' Legend rifle at 14K -do they?

You seem like you are ALL ego....

Which is why you cannot admit Darcy would GO BROKE selling Legend rifles @ 14k that had stocks colored like the one you've bolted to that m70 Barreled action of yours.

Which again, was the point of my first statement here you responded to.

Yup, toilet seat swirly, which I like. And you bet, an average elk. But I never said it was a trophy, or my best. I had one day to hunt, and it was for the freezer.

Now with those tangents taken care of, look up "genus", then "genius".

Re D'Arcy going broke, I never said anything about that, ever. I said he liked the pattern on my stock. This has nothing of course to do with him selling $14000 rifle, but you have sadly proven that reasoning is beyond your capabilities.

And your first statement I responded to? It was in response to a photo I posted, of a swirly, the topic of this thread.

You are a study in lack of logic Jim. You make a point, then you accuse me of disagreeing with it, then you condescend me for making that opposing point. If you are on meds, I suggest you have the dosage reviewed.

quote:

Originally posted by jim62:
You seem like you are ALL ego....

Which is why you cannot admit Darcy would GO BROKE selling Legend rifles @ 14k that had stocks colored like the one you've bolted to that m70 Barreled action of yours.

Which again, was the point of my first statement here you responded to.

Nah, let's make this simpler. Please go back and find any post where I made the argument that D'Arcy could sell rifles with stocks that look like mine. You find where I said that, and I will admit he could not.

quote:

Originally posted by RickF:

quote:

Originally posted by jim62:
You are the one posting pictures of your Toilet seat colored aftermarket stock and your average sized Elk.

Neither of which have ANYTHING to do with a genuine COMPLETE Echols' Legend rifle at 14K -do they?

You seem like you are ALL ego....

Which is why you cannot admit Darcy would GO BROKE selling Legend rifles @ 14k that had stocks colored like the one you've bolted to that m70 Barreled action of yours.

Which again, was the point of my first statement here you responded to.

Yup, toilet seat swirly, which I like. And you bet, an average elk. But I never said it was a trophy, or my best. I had one day to hunt, and it was for the freezer.

Now with those tangents taken care of, look up "genus", then "genius".

Re D'Arcy going broke, I never said anything about that, ever. I said he liked the pattern on my stock. This has nothing of course to do with him selling $14000 rifle, but you have sadly proven that reasoning is beyond your capabilities.

And your first statement I responded to? It was in response to a photo I posted, of a swirly, the topic of this thread.

You are a study in lack of logic Jim. You make a point, then you accuse me of disagreeing with it, then you condescend me for making that opposing point. If you are on meds, I suggest you have the dosage reviewed.

No meds Rick.

No need.

Unlike you yourself I am lucid enough to realize that practically NO ONE in the market for a glass stocked rifle at 14K would want one colored like the one you ordered from Darcy.

Which must be the reason why this is in the Echols' Legend Rifle Brochure-

" These stocks are available in the following colors: Black, Brown, Sage Green and
Desert Tan. We then add an additional flecked overspray of a contrasting color to
compliment the base color. Pictures that show this effect may be viewed on our website"
www.echolsrifles.com.

I sure as heck don't see anything about McSwirlies. And as I said, there is a very good reason for that.

Jim,

1. I never made the point he could sell a bunch of rifles that look like mine. I shared a photo of mine. If you do not care for it, or for that matter no one else cares for it, I don't care.

2. You did make that point, and wanted me to admit that I was wrong. I would have agreed with your point, no need to admit it as I feel the same way. But you wanted to prove me wrong...on a position I never held.

At the end of the day Jim, you are at least as stubborn as me. Congratulations? I'll buy the first beverage some time.

quote:

At the end of the day Jim, you are at least as stubborn as me. Congratulations? I'll buy the first beverage some time.

LOL....

AGREED.

But I will drink more than one.

Has anyone ever sandblasted a Mcswirly or any McMillian for that matter to make the shine go away? Has anyone discussed that with McMillian? That shine is what bothers me. I bet those camo swirl jobs would look better blasted. If the outer shell can take it.

quote:

Originally posted by jim62

I stalk and kill game just fine without having a stock colored like the toilet seat from a double wide trailer.

Pardon the pun, but that's some funny shit!

Speaking of apples and oranges.

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
Has anyone ever sandblasted a Mcswirly or any McMillian for that matter to make the shine go away? Has anyone discussed that with McMillian? That shine is what bothers me. I bet those camo swirl jobs would look better blasted. If the outer shell can take it.

Intentional or not, that's a joke, and maybe a little funny - hee-hee.

I suspect the folks at McMillan would consider it a joke, but if I was on the phone, I would probably say the shine is dealt with by painting the stocks, if that's what you prefer, over the toilet seat effect - er uh marbled finished.

I have one that's painted, and the texture is great for grip, plus no shine, but the paint isn't as tough as the molded in color. Also it costs extra.

I took my first real "custom" 30-06 deer hunting yesterday, and while sitting and watching a opening in the forest, I had time to admire the lines, and details of the McMillan Classic on the FN. The molded finish has suffered several falls, where it landed between me and the slick rock or root that caused the fall. I busted a Leupold scope that way once on that rifle. The finish shows the nicks, but not through the outer layer. The molded checkering is interesting, because it's obvious that the mold was cut checkering, just like that on a walnut stock, with the slight over-runs and all. The main difference is that the checkering on the McMillan is still sharp and grippy, after all these years, where the tips would have long ago worn off of walnut. The lines of the stock are near perfect, the slight cast off for better alignment, the cheek piece. That pattern, in fiberglass or walnut, is IMO, darn near perfect for a hunting rifle, and it's lighter in fiberglass than wood.

I've often wondered if sandblasting might be the cure for some of the shiny finished walnut stocks, like some of the Brownings, and the old Remingtons, and others. Blast um then paint.

After all, we're talking about "custom" rifles, so custom finish it however you like. Wrap it in camo duct tape, if that's what you like.

KB

No joke. I am serious as a heart attack about the sandblasting.

Doug,

I have sandblasted a swirly McMillan. It does knock the shine considerably. The only problem is that any voids/imperfections are filled with some bond-like material which doesn't stand up very well to the process.

It doesn't take much to knock the shine off, just a quick pass at fairly low pressure.

Case thats good info. How did it look & how much air psi did you use? I just called & asked Mcmillian. They said the shine comes from handleling the stock. Oils from the skin. The lady also said use glass beads instead of sand & turn the air pressure down till you just get the effect you want. Sandblasting will harm their stocks she said. They need a thicker shell me thinks.

So when one orders a Mcswurly in a 'whorehouse camo" pattern, does it come with a rainbow bumper sticker?

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
They need a thicker shell me thinks.

I think that if it wasn't that, it would be something else. I also think that persons with certain attitudes about fiberglass, should just leave McMillan's to others who appreciate them. There are certain types who can never be satisfied with fiberglass stocks. That's not surprising, and understandable, but among those types there are those who can't just decide for themselves, but have to critizise the choices of others, calling it toilet seats, plastic, tupperware and wanting to sand blast the stocks.

As I said, the thickness of the outer shell is plenty sufficient, except for the most crazy abuse, such as sand blasting. I have fallen on mine onto rocks, serious enough to break a scope, with little damage to the finish of the stock. Once my brother drove his truck over a McMillan stocked rifle of mine. It was my fault, since I laid it down flat in the pine straw. The stock nor the rifle was damaged, but I saw the wheel of the truck roll over the stock, just behind the pistol grip. Do that with a wood stock.

The weight of the stock is affected by the thickness of the shell. On request, they will make the shell and fill tougher for special situations, such as heavy recoil, but the normal shell and fill is plenty good for hard use.

Sand blasting the shine off, sand or beads, is just as bad an idea as sandblasting (or beadblasting) the shine off a walnut stock, IMO.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Lou:
So when one orders a Mcswurly in a 'whorehouse camo" pattern, does it come with a rainbow bumper sticker?

Maybe, I dunno, since I didn't know that McMillan offered a pattern so named.

Apparantly they are more politically correct than that.

But my McSwirly stock came with a years membership in the National Pragmatist's Club, and a special offer to adopt an old Subaru to love, which comes with a variety of bumper stickers.

KB