If anyone is having major delay issues with Satterlee Arms in regards to completion of orders[s]...and/or failure of Satterlee Arms to provide the refund[s] it has promised,

Feel free to PM me.

I have had an prepaid order with Satterlee Arms for over three yrs now, and there is still no end in sight for an order that according to his proffesional estimate, was to be completed in about 6 months.

I have given this guy all the space and hassle free time most ethical & capable custom smiths could ever reasonable expect and that most would highly appreciate.

ie; no bugging emails or phone calls regularly pressing him for delivery or wanting to know every in & out of his progress with the order.

Problem is, he has not demonstrated any proactive efforts to contact me with any information or reports on delays.

I gave the green light in August 2009, and did not ask about progress till August 2011, when I found out that most of work he needed to do from the time of placing of the order, had still not been done.....I gather that had I not asked, he would not have bothered to take any initiative to inform me of the gross lack of progress.

Being fed-up with what now appears to be Satterlee Arms trademark lacklustre methods of business, August 2011- I asked for a refund, which he agreed to pay.
Satterlee Arms, despite a few assurances, has since failed to pay that refund on more than one occasion...It being over a year now with the refund still being unreceived.
On none of those occasions has he taken the initiative to inform me that the refund would not be forthcoming in the periods he indicated it would.
..It seems that if I want any update on bad news concerning Satterlee Arms, I have to contact him.

This is the statement Stuart Satterlee made after his last self made debacle concerning the long delayed non-delivery of pre-paid orders to customers.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan: Posted 13 February 2008 20:31
Deposits have been returned, ceritified priority mail.
This business is far from over. Some here think this is my ruin. I see it as starting point for better customer service.
We are getting a full fourth axis for our machining center which will allow faster production of the bolt and receiver.
All that feel wronged here please accept my apologies.
I will be fucusing my attention to timely high quality deliveries.
from now on my goal is a Great gun on time.
Sincerly
Stuart Satterlee

I gave SA the benefit of the doubt, but once again Stuart seems grossly incapable of meeting his proffesional obligations.

To the best of my knowledge,[because Satterlee chooses to be vague and keep me in the dark on such matters] the order I initiated remains not completed, again with no current indication of the level of progress, and still no indication of a concrete completion date.

I have put some clear pertinent questions toward Stuart Satterlee concerning the financial state of Satterlee Arms, and await his response.

Smiths have no problem using this forum to promote themselves and sell their services and products, which I have no objection to.
conversely, it seems fair and reasonable that people use that same forum to report on the high level, or in this case, the severe lack, of service and proffesionalism.

I am not asking for any advice on how to handle the issue, but would like to hear from others who may be experiencing the same, or similar, problems with Satterlee Arms.


p.s. : Before anyone here begins calling my report BS, I urge you to first contact Satterlee Arms to confirm or deny, before foolishly making any such unfounded statements or attempting any personal attack toward me.

I suggest that you sue him.

Let your lawyers fight it out, we're tired of hearing your whining.

I for one have had good results from him on my only order so far.

You might consider using a credit card next time, if you have one. Makes it A LOT easier to get your money back!
You have a good day now, y'hear? Joe

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
we're tired of hearing your whining.

we're?...it appears you have unofficially appointed yourself to speak on behalf of every member of the AR forum.

I sure as hell dont want to see any more people having to go through-suffering the crap, that Satterlee Arms puts its paying clients through.
Anyone considering spending a substantial amount of money with Satterlee Arms may be appreciative of the current heads-up,concerning
his growing legacy of extremely poor business practices.

I really dont understand the sentiment that as long as he delivered to me, it doesnt matter that he couldnt care less about other customers.

A craftsman is only as good as the customer he has treated most poorly...

Luckily(?) Capitalism is a model which allows people to vote with their wallets.

As long as work keeps coming in, a man is free to do whatever he wants. Its only when it dries up he has to face up - at which point it may very well be too late.

As they say, you pay your money and take your chances.

One can deliver a relatively low cost safety shroud on time and rightfully accept the accolade.
It is the regular failure to deliver on many thousands of dollars worth of action build orders, that will ultimately threaten to bring ones business to real world grief.

Shades of that kind, thoughtful, prompt, considerate and truthful (insert proper cuss words in place of those used) asshole (that word is fine) at empire rifles, George Sandmann

I again suggest that you sue him.

Perhaps you could even get Judge Judy to hear the case (grin). I think I'd like to see that....for several reasons.
Joe

I have only had a couple dealings with Stu, a receiver purchase and some gunsmithing. I was treated fair and in a prompt manner.

I've on here for less than 10 years so forgive the newby question but if the OP has placed a deposit on a job that is 2.5 years late, doesn't he have a valid reason to complain?

When ordering from Satterlee and the order or refund continually fails to materialize,
be prepared to have to suffer a pile of obscure & "dog ate my homework" type excuses..

Satterlee again?? I seem to remember the same issue coming up couple of years back.

I have a custom rifle that was built on a Satterlee action......he does excellent work.

Having said that, there are only two ways I would buy another one: 1) COD or 2) second hand.

Harris...same guy posting, same bitch, same incident, won't do anything but bitch. If it was that much money and he really wanted it back, he would sue, but as it is just more bitching.

quote:

Originally posted by Harris:
Satterlee again?? I seem to remember the same issue coming up couple of years back.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
Harris...same guy posting, same bitch, same incident, won't do anything but bitch. If it was that much money and he really wanted it back, he would sue, but as it is just more bitching.

Harris seems to be referring to the thread addressing the compounding problems with Satterlee from a few yrs back[2008?]
Be assured,I was not part of the orig. list of ARcustomers who got continuelly stuffed around and lied to, in the 2006-2008 period.

Those AR sourced customers keenly pressed the issue [kept bitching? ] on this forum, which managed to get Satterlee to eventually return monies for actions not delivered......without the need for legal action.

NOt rashly jumping into legal action, is not necessarily an indication that a person does not want their money back, or that they deem it an insignificant amount...although I understand a fool may assume so.

It appears that Larrys thinks people like Trax,RIP,M1 Tanker,MHC-TX,MarcStockeld,Duane Weibe,ForrrestB,
act like girls by using this forum to assist getting their well belated ordered product, or monies back.

The thread about Satterlee Feb 2008, was around 8 pages, where even Saeed the owner of this site, weighed in about Sattterlee,
- Saeed did not express any objection to the AR members valid discussion & complaints [or "bitching"]... about Satterlee.

Yes I was in the same boat. Ordered an action from him in January of 2009. Was given a 1 year build date. Revieved the action July of 2012 after many emails with Stuart. Always had an excuse. He makes a good action as I now have three of them that we are preparing to build on. However I am with MHC_TX. I will only ever buy one second hand now. I have an action that was built about 4 years ago that is his and it is only 20 some odd serial numbers apart from the action I recieved a couple of months ago. I think for Stuart it must just be a hobby becasue I cant see how any one could make it producing 6-8 actions a year and a few complete builds.

You got to be patient for the best action in the world-hand made by Stuart himself.The best things in life are not done quick.

I have seen some of the manufacturing processes posted on line. To manufacture a 98 bolt and receiver in that manner is a nightmare. There were too many setups required because he does not have a multiaxis mill with tombstone tooling.
He has to load and unload the same part many times to make a lot of mundane cuts. With a multiaxis mill he should be able to hog out most of the material with just 2 or 3 fixtures.
He appears to be an older craftsman working with machines that are 2 to 3 generations behind state of the art.
The trouble with state of the art machines is he may get contract work for semiconductor or medical joint replacement implants at much higher volumes that pay about 3X what he could get for an action. When that happens the action business may turn in to a sideline.

Not taking sidses here, but if you ever ordered a hand made gun out of the major UK makers...well...count on at least five years and no price guarantees. Just the way what it is!

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
Not taking sidses here, but if you ever ordered a hand made gun out of the major UK makers...well...count on at least five years and no price guarantees. Just the way what it is!

That’s fine if they tell you that up front. Its when you are told timelines and you order a product based on the timelines that the builders have no intention of keeping that irritates me.

A couple of questions I have is, why is it that a custom gunsmith that sets HIS own time lines, and continually delivers several months, to several years late, is considered doing normal business? Please name one other craft out there that the manufacturer routinely goes over by several months to several years to deliver when THEY set the time frame for that delivery.
Second question, would any of you buy say a house, or new car, and not be concerned if the build time for that house or car, exceeded promised time by several months/years, after having paid for most of it in advance? If so, let me know as I have some great ideas to make money!

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:Posted 14 September 2012 23:11
Not taking sidses here, but if you ever ordered a hand made gun out of the major UK makers...well...count on at least five years and no price guarantees. Just the way what it is!

Mr.Wiebe,

5yrs?....the past clearly indicates you were not prepared to wait anywhere near so long on Satterlee delays,
...you opted to leave the sinking ship after only 14months,...stating that it was a BIG mistake for you to get involved with Satterlee.

Thus,me expecting a promised and still well belated refund [after over 3yrs of no product arriving] does not seem at all unreasonable.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:Posted 06 February 2008 06:47

Appropriate or not, I think I've earned a spot in this discussion. I too, sent Satterlee a deposit with the promise of a timely delivery...about 14 mos. ago. In my case I made a BIG mistake, the customer had me act as his agent and it was the customer's money I forwarded to Stuart. Honorably, I will make sure the customer is not out funds...but, of course, I am. So Stuart, I too demand a refund!!! For the most part, I take "in progress" photos...with the internet, and a digital camera, it's no trouble to keep customers appraised of exactly what's been done...and the customer really likes, in some cases, to keep a "history" of the project. Then too, if I become careless in the crosswalks, litigation would be kept to a minmum.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe: Posted 14 February 2008 05:27
I received my refund from Stuart today

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:Posted 14 February 2008 05:52
Should have eloborated: (ad infitinum) The refund is going to Granite Mountain Arms...their delivery has always been timely....

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
You got to be patient for the best action in the world-hand made by Stuart himself.The best things in life are not done quick.

Thats funny, as Stuart himself prefers to give the exact opposite impression.

This is how Satterlee has advertised the product for several yrs now; -In Stock and available for quick delivery.*

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
You got to be patient for the best action in the world-hand made by Stuart himself.The best things in life are not done quick.

Thats funny, as Stuart himself prefers to give the exact opposite impression.

This is how Satterlee has advertised the product for several yrs now; -In Stock and available for quick delivery.*

Trax,be patient a little more and you will get your action.Remember, everyone who ordered one got one.I felt just like you do and thought I was a fool but Stuart came through.

We've gotta remember that this fellow(?) Trax has long since proven himself to be a troll. Apparently he owns no custom rifles of his own, but rather prefers to show photos of others' rifles with some sort of vague intimation that they actually belong to him.

Bah!

Has he ordered a custom rifle from Satterlee? Maybe, but he has shown no proof. Does he even own one single custom rifle? Maybe, but again he has shown no proof, never once, not even when directly challenged.

Again, bah!

And again, I suggest that Trax sue the guy. Will he? Of course not. Apparently he'd rather make vague unsupported accusations and attempt to use other posters' words to undermine their objections to his infantile attempts to be the center of attention.

There's the problem right there, he's a pitiful little troll who's desperately attempting to attack others in order to justify his existence with infantile efforts to become the center of attention.

Come on, Trax, I challenge you to show us something that will encourage us to believe you! You know, something like Satterlee's original invoice/receipt for your payment!

Or better yet, a picture of your smiling face behind one of 'your' custom rifles!

A long-time colleague on this forum recently suggested that Trax is really 22WRF in drag, and I tend to agree. Same kind of weasel words, same attempts to stir the pot without any constructive contribution of his own, etc etc.
Regards, Joe

Trax: Not that I really give a aiborn sex act about your comment... It was customer's order!

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:

Come on, Trax, I challenge you to show us something that will encourage us to believe you! You know, something like Satterlee's original invoice/receipt for your payment!

Its very simple & straightforward, you can PM,email or call Stuart Satterlee, and get it straight from the horses mouth....not valid enough for you?
Why are you so affraid & cowardly to get his direct account of his constant failure to deliver a product or refund?

Even for a simpleton like you J.D. it should be easy;...just PM "Timan" for verification.....and get back to the forum with the responce.
Think you can handle that?

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Trax,be patient a little more and you will get your action.Remember, everyone who ordered one got one.

Not true.....RIP,forrestB,Wiebe, did not receive their overdue action....however, they did receive a reasonably rapid refund when one was demanded.
My well belated refund is yet to be performed by SA.

You want to wait indefinitely for an order, go ahead, however, the general consensus from those few past customers who did eventually get their well belated order,
is that they would never go through the nightmare process of ordering[again] with Satterlee.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
Trax: Not that I really give a aiborn sex act about your comment... It was customer's order!

Mr.Wiebe,

your first post made it sound like one should be almost content to suffer the great delays some rifle/action makers put their customers through.
Sure, you are entirely free to decide whether to wait for a belated order or rightfully demand a refund,
but when you then give the impression that the lengthy delays regularly experienced by Satterlee customers should somehow be acceptable, because thats "the way it is" with Major UK makers,well, that just makes me laugh.

Clearly your own customer was not prepared to go on suffering Satterlee delays.

I trust you tried to convince your customer not to cancel his late Satterlee order after only 14months, using your reasoning that;...its not unusual to wait 5yrs+ with UK makers?
Either you did not do that, or you did and your customer was not convinced.

I be confident in saying, that, you were really glad you got out when you did, and that you and your customer were both really glad to have opted for GMA, which probably allowed you to turn out a completed rifle, before any Satterlee action was ever likely to have arrived.

Just wondering if these days you are confidently recommending your customers go with ordering from Satterlee or preferably some other much more quickly available new M98 action.

So sue the guy.

IF what you say is true, and I for one think you're a habitual truth-stretcher. Not exactly a liar since you don't have enough fortitude to actually ever make a statement of fact, but you're a truth-stretcher for sure.

I don't believe you. It's just as simple as that.

Oh, I admit that it's certainly POSSIBLE that you ordered a rifle that hasn't been delivered yet, but based upon your past deceptions and obfuscations on this forum it seems to me that you're the type of person wbo would lie. If for no other reason then just to stir the pot and call attention to yourself.

So, why don't you prove me wrong by telling us your real name and address and showing us a pic of your smiling face behind one, just one, of 'your' custom rifles?

No? I thought not. What a troll!

You need to man-up but I doubt you have the equipment.

And then again perhaps it's your sparkling wit and marvelous personality(!?!?) that make folks treat you the way that they(we) do....

BTW if you were REALLY serious about recovering your money, my friend Alvin Linden of this and other forums has kindly posted suggestions/guarantees for how to sic the culprit's home state Attorney General onto the offender, with no charge to you.

IF you're telling the truth, that is.
Joe

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:

I don't believe you. It's just as simple as that.

Yet you remain so weak & cowardly, that you won't contact Satterlee.
Why do you remain so affraid of the truth?
There is no sensible practical gain achieved by repeatedly wasting your time doubting or questioning me,...just pm "Timan".
Unfortunately,your a simpleton who cannot see the simple clear solution to curing your doubt,disbelief and mental frailty.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:

I don't believe you. It's just as simple as that.

Yet you remain so weak & cowardly, that you won't contact Satterlee.
Why do you remain so affraid of the truth?
There is no sensible practical gain achieved by repeatedly wasting your time doubting or questioning me,...just contact "Timan".
Unfortunately,your a simpleton who cannot see the simple clear solution to curing your doubt,disbelief and mental frailty.

Kevin (sic) you are the one that brought this up in the first place, the proof is on you. Forward something instead of this literary garbage so people will know the truth. Some real evidence like Joe as asked for.

pathetic the kind of abuse trax receives for simply telling us about his experience.

AFAIK Trax isnt affiliated with any gunmakers or any gunmaking business, why would he pull accusations like this out of his ass.

Just sue... yeah its not like suing someone is one hell of a job. Its the last resort and something you would rather avoid if you can.

I can totally understand why he cant be bothered to sue over a few grand. I do understand that he wants to spread the word, and he is not alone from the looks of it.

Perhaps we should tell those who got scammed by Blair worldwide hunting to shut the f. up and sue instead? Stop the whining about a hunting trip you didnt get...

Trax Im with you on this one.

JD and Jim what makes you think Trax owes you any evidence whatsoever of his claim against Satterlee? I haven't seen Satterlee chiming in with some argument as to why he doesn't actually owe Trax any work or money. If you're so positive Satterlee will come through, why don't you step up and provide a financial guarantee on his behalf?

I've been down this road with Satterlee myself and I've seen where it goes. After Satterlee ran out of lies, he put his own wife out front to tell lies on his behalf and even had her quote God and scripture to further their fraud.

I've had Trax on "ignore" mode for some time but it looks like there are two other children on the forum that I need to be ignoring as well.

I agree...SUE! Look how well that turned out for those who sued Hein.......er.......never mind, really, really stpid idea.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
you are the one that brought this up in the first place, the proof is on you. Forward something instead of this literary garbage so people will know the truth. Some real evidence like Joe as asked for.

You and JD have the complete freedom to contact Satterlee and ask him directly.
Both of you are too weak & cowardly to do so.

If I was Satterlee and truly felt I was being unjustly slandered, Id be promptly posting here to defend my name & reputation, armed with the facts.

The fact that Satterlee remains completely silent over this issue speaks volumes.

I appreciate the fact that he is a craftsman and have little time for such petty issues such as customers not getting what they - you know - paid thousands for.

But it takes but 10 seconds to type " I have not recieved any payment for any order from this guy trax".

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Trax,be patient a little more and you will get your action...

Some food for though;

In the aftermath of the previous Satterlee delivery debacle 2008, Stuart pledged on the forum to pick his game up concerning customer service and delivery.

Thus, I offered him a fully pre-paid order that on his professional experience estimate would be ready in around 6 months.
So far he has had more than 600% of the time he estimated & alloted himself for the job and still a completion time remains open ended.
Quite frankly, I feel I have been more than reasonable and am not prepared to wait in the manner you may be prepared to wait.
Owning a Satterlee action may be a glorious life achievement to you, however I dont share the same sentiment.

For those of you who are new to AR, it's well-known that Trax is a troll who has REPEATEDLY tried to run down Satterlee. This latest atttempt is no news to some of us, it's just the same old Trax story regurgitated by him.

If Trax is who we think he is, then he's already been kicked off AR twice for his antics and shit-stirring.

Trax is the one who came to us on this forum wanting support for his position from the rest of us, so why oh why is it so bad for some of us to question him about the details? It should be up to the complainant Trax to prove his accusations, shouldn't it? Of course it should, but yet Trax asks US to do his work for him!

Frankly, a person who won't answer questions and won't even tell us where he lives or who he is, well, let's just say I DON'T trust him. And add to that a person who's always trying to stir the pot and cause hate & discontent among others, well, let's just say I think he's not someone to be taken seriously.

IF and I say IF he was someone who contributed to the AR fraternity or who had a genuine place in the custom rifle arena, then our attitude would be different. Instead he appears to be nothing more than a troll who owns no custom rifles and has no expertise or constructive criticism to share.

As I said, a friend has already enumerated the steps necessary to sic the AZ Attorney General onto Satterlee, so why hasn't Trax already done it? Heck, he's a LAWYER for Pete's sake!

But apparently not a very good one.....
Regards, Joe

JD and Kobe share the delusional belief that I am 22WRF. [Saeed or Don can easily confirm I am not 22WRF.]
JD and Kobe are also the same two cowards who cant bring themselves to contact Satterlee.....Now, why would that be?...it aint rocket science...

Satterlee can tell you If I have a current business issue with him and Satterlee can tell you Trax is not 22WRF.

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
Trax is the one who came to us on this forum wanting support for his position from the rest of us,

No, not the rest of the forum, just those facing difficulty with Satterlee delivery or refunds.
You are neither of those.

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
it looks like there are two other children on the forum that I need to be ignoring as well.

Knock yourself out!

But, before you do, please read my response above enumerating the reasons why I think Trax owes us more details.
Regards, Joe

for J.D."simpleton",

Satterlee can confirm we have a long unresolved business issue - and Satterlee can confirm Trax is not 22WRF.

Stop being a coward and contact Mr.Satterlee.

Satterlees words will easily give JD sound reason to stop all his hollow & senseless babble.

JD is just too afraid and cowardly to go there.