To answer your recoil reducer question:

I put an 8 ounce reducer in my Merkel .470, but it is already heavier than your Sabatti. It will change the balance a bit, but the change was positive for me. You may be able to use a 16 ounce in your Sabatti, but only you can determine if the balance and feel are acceptable.

BTW, I will be buying a Sabatti sooner or later. They are a great value.

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
To answer your recoil reducer question:

I put an 8 ounce reducer in my Merkel .470, but it is already heavier than your Sabatti. It will change the balance a bit, but the change was positive for me. You may be able to use a 16 ounce in your Sabatti, but only you can determine if the balance and feel are acceptable.

BTW, I will be buying a Sabatti sooner or later. They are a great value.

Thanks for the input,

Just what I wanted to hear. I didn't know if they messed up the balance, but I think I will give them a try.


Sabattis are a great value, buy it SOONER not later and you won't regret it!

I put a 16 ounce C&H brake in my .450 sabatti; it actually makes the balance better. It does cut down the recoil a lot, maybe 8 ounces would be better. Adding the scope added another pound too. Anyway, I have a K gun, and have had a Greifelt, and others; I really like the Sabatti, for the price especially. I have an extractor gun and put a Pachmayr decelerator .6 inch pad on it. 7 pound triggers which I will fix later. Regulated into 1.5 inches at 50.

dpcd,
Thanks for the information. I think I will start with 8 ounces.

If one were going to go for 16 ounces, would there be any difference in using 1 16oz. tube or 2 8oz. tubes? I mean in reference to recoil reduction, balance, etc.

Nemo,

If you install Mercury recoil reducer it will most probably require sending the gun off to have the barrels re-regulated. Doubles are really touchy about things like that.

Ejectors make reloading a bit faster, could be VERY important if something big and smelly is bearing down on you with the intent of making you one with the local dirt.

Roi

510wells,

How or why will murcury recoil reducer(s) affect the regulation or the POI?


Thanks,

It probably won't but if it does you can easily take it back out.

What Mike Brooks said.

From those who have posted that they added MRRs to their Sabatti, they found only slight changes, not requiring re-regulation.

I still haven't got mine out to the range. Hopefully next week.

LoinHunter,
Thanks for your continued advice and input.
I look forward to a range report!

But now to the matter at hand,

I am going to get with the good folks at Accurate Innovations, who do VERY NICE, BEAUTIFUL and AMAZING (you get the idea I like them? ) custom stocks for magazine rifles.
(www.accurateinnovations.com)

The owner is one of my closest freinds and they're only an hours drive away (North Carolina). So I will be going to go up there and see how mucury recoil redurcer(s) feel like... That is, when I get my gun fixed or replaced.

I believe they only have 8oz. M.R.R.s and I was wondering if I will need more than that.

And if so will there be any difference between puting 2 8oz. M.R.R. in or one 16oz. M.R.R.?

Neither adding the 16 oz brake, the Leupold 1-4 scope, nor the sling affected regulation in the slightest. 1.5 inches or less at 50. To my Sabatti 450 NE. I always heard that changing anything would affect regulation, but also, adding a scope mount and scope to my K .400 did not change a thing. Oh, on the two 8oz vs one 16 oz, should work if two will fit. There is about 2 inches of extra length for the 16 ouncer. I had to enlarge the hole a bit for it to fit, and I put a piece of dowel to take up the extra space. You can hear the HG sloshing around in there.

dcpd,
Thank for sharing what you have done to/with your Sabatti. I was hoping folks like you and LionHunter and jorge and others who have Sabattis would show up to tell me what y'all have done to them, and what the results were.

I don't mean to slight anyone who has contributed that I didn't mention.

Thanks to all of y'all who have posted with useful comments and advice!

I will keep this thread up to date with the latest regarding my Sabatti. As far as that goes, jorge has offered to try and pull some strings with Cabelas (thanks jorge!), so I'll wait and see what happens.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

You get what you pay for...

If you are lucky!

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

You get what you pay for...

If you are lucky!

tendrams,
I am not being dense here, but what are you implying?

I am not talking shit about anyone or anything on this thread...but generally we HOPE to get what we paid for. Sometimes we don't and only very VERY rarely do we get more than we paid for.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
I am not talking shit about anyone or anything on this thread...but generally we HOPE to get what we paid for. Sometimes we don't and only very VERY rarely do we get more than we paid for.

I did not mean to offend sir, please acept my apology if I did.
And you are very right, I had hoped for better things from Sabatti and am dissappointed that my gun is not up to snuff... but I hope to get it replaced or fixed.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
we HOPE to get what we paid for. Sometimes we don't and only very VERY rarely do we get more than we paid for.

Well said!

Having said that, I have two Sabatti DR - a 450/400 and 450NE. Both are much nicer (wood figure, wood to metal fit and mechanically) than I expected and shoot darn well.

Though I may sell one towards an elephant hunt, I am doing my best to find another way. I am one of the lucky ones you refer to and in my experience, when you let a "good one get away" you never really find it again.

I have a Sabatti in .500 Nitro Serial #57 that was purchased at Cabelas last spring. I have put well over a hundred rounds through it without any problems whatsoever. I took it to Zimbabwe for a buffalo hunt this past September and will give it great reviews. The only negative is the recoil. For a .500 it is too light. I am 6'2" and weigh 240 and am not overly recoil sensitive, (I have a .470 that I have shot for years), but this rifle does get your attention. I will either have to do somthing about the recoil or end up getting my retinas re-attached. Good luck with your rifle. I think it will give you years of service.
Proverbs 26:17

Well folks, here's the latest...

My gunsmith has informed me that the ejector springs being loose had piy all of the pressure on the left cocking lever and thus created exessive wear, meaning I must get a replacement part from USSG.

He contacted USSG about the problem and they told him that they didn't know if they had a replacement part or not! It took them over 1 and 1/2 weeks to get back to him, to tell him they had the part. They said that because I had not sent the gun to them, I had voided the warranty and that they would not cover the cost of the part or the shipping.

My gunsmith said that the person he spoke with was excedingly arrogant and rather rude and not very helpfull, not the kind of people I would want to send my gun to...

So, the part is ordered and I am waiting on it to get here. Note, wether or not I am not going to have installed rests upon what happens with Cabelas.


Meanwhile, jorge has put in word to his contact with Cabelas and is waiting for a reply to see if anything can be done concerning replacement or something of that sort.

quote:

Originally posted by Nemo .450:
He contacted USSG about the problem and they told him that they didn't know if they had a replacement part or not! It took them over 1 and 1/2 weeks to get back to him, to tell him they had the part. They said that because I had not sent the gun to them, I had voided the warranty and that they would not cover the cost of the part or the shipping.

My gunsmith said that the person he spoke with was excedingly arrogant and rather rude and not very helpfull, not the kind of people I would want to send my gun to...

That's the third person I know of that talked to USSG and felt that way afterword.....

Make me #4. They were really arseholes.

I'm new here and this is my post regarding my Sabatti. I joined mainly because of the problems I'm having with mine and to seek advice.

My barrels are crossing at 50 yards with an 6"-8" spread between shots. I've varied my loads from 1900fps up to 2100fps using 300 and 400 grain bullets (was supposedly regulated using Hornady DGX 400 gr @ 2050fps but that load is crossing 8" at 50 yards). I've called Cabela's and they said they would replace it but they didn't have one to replace it with and would call when they did, still no call. An email to Sabatti remains unanswered and an email to USSG was less than helpful. USSG stated I needed to send them the rifle. Then they would look at it and decide what needed to be done. Seeing how I couldn't reach them for over a month (their phone was actually disconnected for a couple of days) and the email took forever to be answered I don't trust them with my $6000 gun.

Here is my dilemma. If I exchange it for a new one I may have worse problems than before, Cabelas is willing to do it when they have a new one and this requires no money from me. If I have it re-regulated I know it will be good to go but I'll have to sink more money into a gun that should already work. Ideas? It's taken me almost 20 years to get enough money for this gun, this thing is my dream and I don't want to screw it up.

I'm thinking of sending it to JJ Perodeau. What can anyone say about his work? If you have personal experience with his regulation work I'd like to hear. PM me if you don't want to post about your experiences or ideas. Thanks guys.

I'd take a new gun when it became available.


Just out of interest, what does the test target that came
with the gun show ?

.

The final tuning showed 1.5" spread between the two shots one shot over the other. The targets don't show which shot is from which barrel and the "group" on the target isn't a composite group as you probably know. I don't have a picture of it handy and I'm on the road right now.

A quick online scan shows they have 2 450/400's in Cabellas Gun Library.

I'd get a replacement from Cabelas.

xrayoneone,

Welcome to the "Highly Unofficail Sabatti Double Rifle Owners Club"!
Oh, I guess that makes 2 of us that got truly sub-par Sabattis ... at least your not alone!

Sabatti themselves seem almost disinterested and USSG... well their nothing to write home about, well NOTHING GOOD that is! USSG will tell (and have told) you that you need to send your gun to them. But they won't insist on it, and if you take any other recourse (except Cabelas I guess) they will tell you that you voided the warranty, and won't do a blessed thing about it, so beware USSG.

That said, I would get Cabelas to replce it. It is not likely that you get another poorly regulated rifle, but if you do, you can still send the replacement rifle, if need be, to J.J.Perodeau. As to Mr. Perodeau himself, I've never dealt with him (might in the future though) but others have sent their guns to him (read second post on this thread) and I have always heard great stuff of him.

Just my opinion.

Let us know how things work out with your Sabatti.

quote:

Let us know how things work out with your Sabatti.

I just received my Sabatti back from JJ this evening after he reregulated it. I've been quiet about the regulation issue but it looks like more folks are running into this so I think that I should post my experience.

I realized my Sabatti crossed at 50 yards on my second trip to the range. Cabelas said I could bring it to them (~150 miles away)and they would send it back to USSG or I could send it directly to USSG. After a good number of calls I eventually reached USSG and they said sending it to them was on me. They would shoot it and decide if it met "specification" after that they would decide what needed to be done but if it needed regulation it could not be done in the country and it might be replaced. The fellow I talked to at USSG said some rifles were regulated at 75 meters and listed 50 meters on the target and speculated that might be the issue. I said if it crossed at 50 it will cross at 75 meters and he said not necessarily. I saw no need to continue the conversation after that.

I took it to the range again, tried another rest and it seemed to only cross by a little at 50 yds. On this outing a friend noticed that there was light showing around the tang and we all surmised that the stock should be bedded to the receiver.

I had the stock bedded and the tiggers adjusted to ~4.5 lbs. After those mods, the rifle was consistantly crossing by about 3.5 inches at 50 yards with two different shooters.

I called JJ and he said that he thought it could be fixed. I drove to Enid before Thanksgiving and delivered it to him. It was left on my doorstep this evening and I plan to shoot it on Saturday.

If Cabelas offers to replace your rifle, my advice would be to accept the offer and do it with the proviso that the new rifle must be subject to your inspection.

The Sabatti regulation targets I have seen do not show which barrel fired which shot. Could it be that close is good enough ?

quote:

Originally posted by Ammoloader:
The Sabatti regulation targets I have seen do not show which barrel fired which shot. Could it be that close is good enough ?

In view of what you said here "I said if it crossed at 50 it will cross at 75 meters and he said not necessarily. "

I would say they may / don't know that they are crossing and as long as they are SxS (or O/U in one of the posts), then near enough is good enough.

Can you trust the test targets that come with the guns is the question.

.

quote:

Originally posted by Ammoloader:

After a good number of calls I eventually reached USSG and they said sending it to them was on me. They would shoot it and decide if it met "specification" after that they would decide what needed to be done but if it needed regulation it could not be done in the country and it might be replaced. The fellow I talked to at USSG said some rifles were regulated at 75 meters and listed 50 meters on the target and speculated that might be the issue. I said if it crossed at 50 it will cross at 75 meters and he said not necessarily. I saw no need to continue the conversation after that.

So it seems that (most of) the folks USSG are ignorant as well as arrogant and un-helpfull.


And Ammoloader, I guess your regulation and stock fitting problems makes you elegable for membership in the Highly Unnoficial DEFECTIVE Sabatti Double Rifle Owners Club.

And on this I am with 500N, can we trust the regulation targets?
Just on this forum I've seen "regulation" targets and targets shot by the owner that are quite different from each other, true some are able to duplicate groups identical to the "regulation" targets.

What do you expect from a 5,000 and under double rifle same quality grade and workmen ship as a H&H or WR ? lets be frank it was rushed on to the market to be a cheap rifle to generate spending in a down economy when price goes down quality does also.Another not the company in question has mad rifles true but never a big bore double so why chance it on something they just started where they have no history in produceing DG grade doubles

Nemo

At least we agree on something !!! LOL

What pisses me of is after going to all the trouble of making
the damn thing, it would NOT have taken much to actually make
sure the guns shot well.

So an extra 2 - 4 hours (assuming they use factory ammo)
and they could probably have had a spot on, accurate gun.

Instead they have questions in the market over test targets
and how honest they are - remember one guy posted that he bought
the gun based on the test target that he was shown !!!

.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
Nemo

At least we agree on something !!! LOL

What pisses me of is after going to all the trouble of making
the damn thing, it would NOT have taken much to actually make
sure the guns shot well.

So an extra 2 - 4 hours (assuming they use factory ammo)
and they could probably have had a spot on, accurate gun.

Instead they have questions in the market over test targets
and how honest they are - remember one guy posted that he bought
the gun based on the test target that he was shown !!!

.

Call me stupid if you like, but I bought my .450 based on the target I was shown. I called most of the Cabelas Gun Libraries looking for a .450, found only 2 available (at the time) I nearly bought a certain .450, but at the last minute I heard back from Cabelas Glendale with pics of a .450 that had a slightly better "regulation" target... so I got the one from Glendale.

I was not able to evan get on paper at 50 yards and could only get irregular 2" to 3" groups at 30 yards and only part of the time. Its true that I could have done better off sticks, but the "regulation" target shows 2 holes almost SxS 1-1/8" apart (cener of hole to center of hole).

There're not $20,000 or even $10,000 DRs but they all that some people could or wanted to afford. Most people, evan some who own WRs and or high grade german DRs are pleased to think well of them. And think about it, out of the 100+ Sabattis brought into thr country, only a few (some 3 or 4 I think) have reported had serious problems that I am aware of.

And how many of the WR H&H purderys and the likes have problems ? Also more then 1 that leaves the FACTORY or even the SUPPLIER that has any sort of problems is 1 to many also who do you know that can afford a 50k double rifle who would stray from a firm who is known for quality and overall product would buy and intend to use a rifle made by a company who makes sub par shotguns

Nemo

1. You are not stupid, just the company who makes them is not being as honest as they should be.

2. In regards to "And think about it, out of the 100+ Sabattis brought into thr country, only a few (some 3 or 4 I think) have reported had serious problems that I am aware of."

Go back to Ammoloaders post up the page a bit.
"I've been quiet about my the regulation issue but it looks like more folks are running into this so I think that I should post my experience."

The emphasis on "I've been quiet about my the regulation issue".

Not many people I know have the balls to come out and say what you do. Most will just keep quiet about it.

.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
Nemo

At least we agree on something !!! LOL

What pisses me of is after going to all the trouble of making
the damn thing, it would NOT have taken much to actually make
sure the guns shot well.

So an extra 2 - 4 hours (assuming they use factory ammo)
and they could probably have had a spot on, accurate gun.

Instead they have questions in the market over test targets
and how honest they are - remember one guy posted that he bought
the gun based on the test target that he was shown !!!

.

I guess I'm one of those idiots that bought the rifle on the target shown and I'm sure Sabbatis are the ONLY DRs that have had issues. Oh and did I mention I flew out to Fort Worth and had a friend meet me there with considerable DR experience, looked over four Sabbatis they had there and TWO Merkels as well.

I don't think anybody here that bought a Sabbati said the workmanship was the equal of a H&H or WR. But compared to say a Merkel? I don't know, but I would love to hear from folks who've acutally compared Sabbattis and others side by side.

I actually took the time to research these rifles before purchasing, including speaking with the likes of JJ Perodeau and other gents with more than a modicum of knowledge on the subject.

For one thing a big part of the cost savings of these rifles is the CNC machining process, that when coupled with cheaper Italian labor, economies of scale in the fact Cabelas bought the entire production goes a long way in explaining-at least to those of us that aren't hung up on names, the lower, sorry CHEAP costs of these rifles. There are lots of guys here who've posted good reports about Sabbatis, including the not-for profit Gun Tests. we KNOW we didn't get an H&H or WR. And one more thing, even money says the steel used to make one of these less expensive-are a step up over the steel used during the first decade of the 20th Century. Here's a target of my Sabbati:



Nothing to write home about, but I'm sure whatever I eventually shoot with mine won't take umbrage I shot it with a CHEAP double. ....jorge

You know this is a forum of mostly opinion right so your problem with 500n is beyond me you bought the rifle good on you ! you like it for what it is also good on you ! But 500n has his points so haveing a pissing match over it for what ??Good on you ACE you have tried to start an arguement over the internet with someone from down under your such a COOL guy ACE

BTW, Cabelas didn't buy the whole production, they might have purchased the whole FIRST run
of production but not the whole production so
if anyone is saying that it is rubbish.

CHEAP Italian labour ? No such thing, reckon Turkey plays a part in it somewhere. They seem to be mass producing guns ATM of varying quality.

.

quote:

even money says the steel used to make one of these less expensive-are a step up over the steel used during the first decade of the 20th Century.

Jorge

Let's see in 100 years hey ?


Animals don't know or mind if you shoot a "cheap" lower cost gun / Double Rifle - well, at least those animals I have shot.


Although, from memory a mate had a Buffalo flick the bullet back with his foot saying "sorry, if you want to shoot me it must be with an English Double Rifle" !!! LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
You know this is a forum of mostly opinion right so your problem with 500n is beyond me you bought the rifle good on you ! you like it for what it is also good on you ! But 500n has his points so haveing a pissing match over it for what ??Good on you ACE you have tried to start an arguement over the internet with someone from down under your such a COOL guy ACE

Exactly and opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. No pissing contests (I edited my post)I just find it curious as to why you find it so imperative to keep reminding us Sabbatis are not H&Hs ( We get that) and your dogmatic insistence on "I told you so."

I'm not a rich man, but I went into this purchase with both eyes open and figuring I can afford a 5K whim if the rifle turns out to be a dog. So far it's proven to be the exact opposite, but who knows, it might blow at the next range session.

As to me being {sic} cool, that's a given. How many carrier landings do you have? jorge

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
Let's see in 100 years hey ?

No need to wait. I can assure you metallurgy has come a long way since 1900, but let's be frank, I'd be willing to commit an unatural act with a farm animal to own an English double. jorge