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No one can do CC as good as St Ledger in BirmIngham UK. Westley R , Purdey and many others do there CC in Birmingham with St ledger. No other CC impress me at all. Would prefer a basic silver action, or even better thE black action Hyem did a while ago. The 89B looks great in proportion , on a winner with this model i feel. cheers Nick | |||
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Case colors on an unengraved surface will appear brighter than on an engraved surface. When engraving is cut into the metal, the surface is disrupted, and the texture of the metal's surface changes. This impacts how the colors "fix" on the surface, and it also changes how light is reflected on the surface. This tends to make the colors appear less bright. The type of metal and the thickness of the metal can also change the colors - as can varnish or no varnish, etc... I'll have some photos of the other grades of engraving soon with case colors soon. Side-by-side, you can definitely see a difference. St. Ledgers certainly does great work, but I don't know that they're seen very often on unengraved guns. I suspect they would look a little brighter too, but it's unlikely that you would see a new, unengraved, Purdey. It would be no problem for us to ship parts to England for CC. In the end, however, I don't know that you would notice enough difference to justify the additional expense. But it's only money... anything is possible.  | |||
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Agree with Nick. I had two English doubles colored by St. Ledger, an Arthur Turner and a Boswell. Spectacular colors and proper for the gun. | |||
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Naki, Turnbull uses charcoal as well. Colors are dependent on water temperature, charcoal type, and temperature of the furnace, how the part is packed and water oxygenation. And, of course, a bit of alchemy. | |||
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Tear drops or "droppers" are optional on the first grade and standard on the higher grades. | |||
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Brilliant in concept. Congratulations! Will these be available to handle and order at the SCI convention in Las Vegas in February? Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Beautiful. Truly a work of art. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Thank you, Michael. Yes, we will have the 89 on display in a variety of configurations. | |||
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I am still waiting to know the ball park price for the base model! I wonder if I would react with -"Wow! I must buy one" or if I would say "Oh, I'd rather get a used British gun in good shape" - or if I will say "I'll keep dreaming!"  "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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my guess is more expensive than the 88. Nick | |||
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Nick, "assumption is the mother of F$@k ups" | |||
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By how much? Anything over US$20k for that base rifle is too much. JMHO with no facts to back it up. Just what it is worth to me compared to what is available in the market. I could compare that rifle to a VC round action CC rifle that also looks like a classic English box lock "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Thanks again to everyone for their patience. To finalize all of the pricing, we must first engrave one in each available grade of engraving. That is being finished now, and we will have pricing on all grades in the next few weeks (in advance of the shows.) The target price for the first grade is just under 20K. The 89 costs a little more than the 88, but it also comes with more standard features than the 88. > long (extended) trigger guard > disk set strikers > new stock and forend by Ralf Martini that are much more British in style. If "British style" is important, I will gladly put this 89 up against any new rifle that costs less than a Westley... any day of the week and twice on Sunday (as the saying goes.) | |||
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Thanks for that information. Glad to see that the "less than $20k" opinion is valid! I would rather see the price comparison to a VC rather than a Wesley Richards! That is the real competition for new guns. Costings would have been done LOOOOONG ago. So I do not buy the story that they are waiting for the engraving. They would know what each type of engraving will cost within 5% if not less. Pricing is another matter altogether! Not the same as costing! Yes I am a bit cynical of large corporates, having worked for many over the last 35 years! I know how large companies work. While Heym has shown great commitment to listen to the customer, the corporates will still try to price it according to "what the market will bare". I get really pissed off when gun manufacturers add $2k to the price for a $300 modification. To have tear drop as an option is ridiculous. What is the extra cost of that? Makes no sense to build a new "Webley Long bar" rifle & then scrounge on the tear drop! Lot more logical to vary the wood grade. I suspect that the majority of the classic British double rifles had relatively plain straight grain that was very functional and also elegant. I do not see why bushed strikers or extended tang should make a BIG change in price. Do intercepting sears really have to add $3k to the price? I am talking about the $15k to $20k rifles and not the lower end. Not trying to be rude - just honest opinion so that Heym can listen to the public BEFORE making the decision. Once they make the decision and announce it, it will be much harder to track back. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Webley PHV1 @ 1914 shown without teardrops on "Plain Quality."  A&WC from the same year shown with teardrops.  | |||
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Thanks for correcting me. I am just a novice with a passionate interest and little money to play with I was just expressing my honest views. I still think the tear drop as "option" is silly. You would gain a lot more goodwill from including it as standard. You could always remove it at no extra charge if some customers did not want it.  "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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What is wrong with that? BTW, it is "bear", not "bare". Unless one lives in a controlled economy, which most of us don't desire, supply and demand reach a price equilibrium. In such a controlled economy, this product would probably not have even been created in response to customer demand. Don't like the price? Don't buy it. If enough people feel the same, the price will be lowered or the company will stop producing it if it isn't profitable at the equilibrium price. I've always valued my skills at what the market will bear, and I suspect that is true of most, if not all, of us. | |||
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Oh the "free market" ...... ho hum I will keep that debate to the political forum! "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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You made the silly remark, not me. As I said, in a non-free market there probably wouldn't have been a new rifle like this. | |||
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Most true Naki. The past week I took my Italian double shotgun apart to oil and fix a firing pin.I noticed it was was very much like a double rifle ...even had a sturdier stock.The shotgun was a gift from my father.I was with him when he bought me it.It cost 400 dollars back in 81. | |||
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Not to interrupt this thread but if you look at current auctions the market is very soft on English and European double rifles now and some great buys can be had. Not so much from the retailers. | |||
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Spot on sir. And some people make silly responses about "Free Market" without looking at the facts! If you look back over the last 6 to 10 years, the resale value of even the high end big name DRs like H&H & WR have gone down. Some 465 H&H rifles have been sitting around for 4 or 5 years at a price that one would have never dreamed of 10 years ago. The number of British NE DRs in the market below $20k right now must be a record for the last 15 years. As I said, the Heym 89 is a really nice rifle & I wish them well. However, I do think that they need to really take a look at the comments posted (by others as well as myself). I know of a William Evans 450 NE made by Webley for sale here in NZ that would cost me US$23K and that rifle is in very good shape. It was completely serviced by Robert Dollymore (formerly from Purdeys). That Evans has CC in good condition with engraving and no pits. I've been drooling over that rifle for about 6 years and the owner is not keen on reducing the price!
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Chris, you guys really hit it out of the park on this one. Great job, has to be the nicest thing on the market right now. Never mind the comments on the case colours they are gorgeous. Great job. | |||
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Naki, I would suggest looking at our auctions. I was successful bidder on a Verney-Carron pre-war .475 no. 2 for $6,000.00 non-ejector with disc set strikers, tang over comb, excellent bores, 26 inch barrels and tight-on-face. Rock Island auction and Julia's last auction had some great buys for low prices. Rodda 450-400 3 inch with quick detach and Leupold scope for $4,500, Jeffrey 3 inch 400 for $10k with case, and some others. Julia had the 450 3 1/4 NE PHV action for 10,500, a Marcel Thys .577 sidelock for $18K and change etc. Juice is generally 17% and shipping. My 6k, with juice and shipping, is $7,161.51 all in. A good buy, I think. I have bid on Holts in England and it was an easy process to have shipped here. Remember, if it is pre-1898 you don't pay customs in the U.S. Funny thing was that the newer Heym/Merkle/Chapuis went for the same prices that I see in our AR classifieds. Just a thought. | |||
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The Heym Model 89B is a good looking gun. I would say Heym is getting there  DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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Another standard feature on the 89B (that is not included on the 88B) is the hand-engraved and stippled rear sight with gold line. The folding leaf is finished the same as the standing leaf but engraved with "100."  | |||
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Nice to see them catching up to VC in terms of "British" styling. Took way too long for modern manufacturers to listen to the market and get away from the closed grips, beavertail fore-ends, and funky looking actions ... now that the market seems to be drying up. | |||
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Don't get me wrong, VC makes a nice rifle and I have one in .470 and have owned a couple of others, but there is very little in terms of British styling in a VC double rifle, e.g., forearms are not true splinters, butt stocks are stout, palm swell, not a long bar action, proportions are more European, etc. I would love to see VC make some changes in their design to move to a more British style double, maybe with Heym moving that way VC will too. Overdue but welcome. Mike | |||
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True and British rifles look good. And now so does the Heym. The VC is very accurate and I have abused mine to the point that it probably does not now have any value. Still when the chips were down it does its job. I was once offered classic - a beautiful looking Manton but it did not shoot straight and was worthless for my line of work. Looks can be deceiving. Bit like women. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Love it | |||
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Andrew, especially in your line of work, the value is in what it can do, not what it looks like :-) | |||
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I would say Todd offers a quite accurate assessment | |||
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Mike, I know what your saying, however, the VC's splinter and moustache's are almost a direct copy of the English made modern H&H royal. Would be hard to call the H&H "not English like" | |||
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Adam, not sure I would call the modern made H&H doubles true English-style doubles any more. I think H&H's double rifles have been looking pretty poor for decades now. I would much rather have a pre-War H&H than a modern H&H. IMHO. Mike | |||
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I didn't say VC was 100% there yet either, but with that "British" or "WR" model they came out with a couple of years back, they made a great leap away from the "modern" DR design back in the right direction ... all due to listening to their customers. They started this move quite some time back. Unless your 470 is different from the one I remember you having, it's not the VC "WR" or "British" model I was referring to. | |||
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Specifically referring to this VC model on display at the Jan 2014 DSC show:  | |||
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That is the model I have, round body but not case colored. I applaud both manufacturers for moving away from Teutonic-like designs. I wish VC would can the palm swell and do a real splinter. I wish both VC and Heym would thin down the butt stock and in particular the grip. I think the metal work on both is getting darn good, the stock work could use some further tweaking. Good news is that they been moving in the direction of more English-like styling. I commend them both for that. Mike | |||
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Mike, this is NOT the standard VC Round Body. I have one of those and I think your's and mine are nearly identical as we both discussed having JJ work on the "semi splinter". This one was a specific model Ken ordered and I think he referred to it as the "WR" model. Did you trade your Round Body for this newer model? | |||
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Mike, isn't your VC more like this one of mine, but with the coin finish, instead of the one in the photo above?  | |||
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Well, not sure what model I have exactly. My metal work is identical to the one in your original photo (coin finish with engraving versus the case colors). My stock does not have tear drops and the forearm appears to be longer (more like the stock in your photo above). Maybe I have a transition model, I do not know. Nice rifle though. Mike | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles HEYM 89B - The Wait Is Over...
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