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Interesting that the front trigger would be intended to be fired first which makes it more likely to strum. I wonder if the Hollands with articulating front triggers are meant to be fired rear first or front first and the articulating trigger allows for fudge factor on the rear since there would be no adjustment in grip. My reasoning is that a firm grip set for rear first is a bit of a reach to the front while conversely, front first allows for easy transition to the rear without worry of reach being an issue. I guess that is why I always shoot front first as my hands aren't big. | |||
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There is your answer, in a very sensible nutshell. But ANY double should afford one and they are designed, to give the hunter the option. USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Not a new statement by me but, my experience with the Merkel I owned, in 500NE, was 100%. I don't know how many hundreds of rounds I fired through that weapon. Took several elephant and buffalo with it so it saw both range and field use. Mine had the articulating front trigger as well. The rifle NEVER doubled in my hands. I did witness it double twice. Once with a PH that wanted to shoot it. Thinking all PHs would be familiar with a double rifle, I handed it over with two rounds. He proceeded to put his index finger on the front trigger and middle finger on the rear. Before I could say STOP, he fired the front trigger and as you would expect, it doubled. The second time was when a friend wanted to have a go with it. He held it too loosely and strummed the back trigger. Both were user errors. The rife was 100% from a mechanical viewpoint. Hell for stout and well regulated. It digested everything I loaded for it with no issues. | |||
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I have a Holland Dominion and yes, it was designed for the front trigger (right barrel) to be fired first . . . that is how it is set up and regulated. The articulating front trigger (which is common on many doubles not just Holland's) was intended to prevent the front trigger from banging into the top part of your index finger when the rifle recoils when the rear trigger (left barrel) is fired. Mike | |||
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Just an interesting bit of information. I have a Charles Osborne, 450 .400 3-1/4, vintage 1892 (or 1896) When I got it, I wasn't sure of the bore. I tried some .408 bullets. The left barrel was able to stabilize .408, the right one wasn't, as they key-holed. (The correct bullets are .411) Point is, the right barrel had been shot that much more over the life of the rifle (front trigger first). Steve Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Reading the old books on Africana by authors such as Hunter, Taylor, etc., they all advocated checking the bore condition of the right barrel when considering the purchase of a used DR. Obviously, the "proper" method of firing a DR is front trigger first!  | |||
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........................You Think?  However one should be able to fire either barrel without getting a double discharge. I mostly fire the right barrel(front trigger ) first but do pull the back trigger about 1/3rd of the time on all my doubles and I don't get DDs with any of my seven double rifles. In my experience the front trigger always has a lighter trigger pull than the back trigger on a right handed double rifle. That fact alone tells me it indicates the front trigger is set to be the first fired because a lighter trigger pull is inherently better for precise accuracy for the first shot. That is also why the "set trigger" is always on the front trigger on smaller chambered double rifles. ..................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I believe that the major advantage of a double rifle is that it gets off the first two rounds the quickest.It seems to me that it is easiest for the finger to find the front trigger needed for a first quick shot. | |||
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While not disputing that the double can get two shots off the quickest, that is not its major advantage. Its main advantage I believe is that the double provides two sure shots without reloading and the inherent risk of this going wrong, plus the two shots are mostly 100% guaranteed to be available due to the two separate lock/firing systems. Of course doubling on firing takes away this advantage. | |||
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I disagree.From my experience a bolt rifle is less likely to have a mechanical failure and thus more likely to fire both shots without risk.Besides being quick with firing,a double points much faster than a bolt. | |||
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Perhaps you should have bought an old English double and not a Searcy. Still waiting to hear the details of your double failure to shoot on the Zim trip.  ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Nothing more than a statement on your lack of experience with a double rifle. Pure and simple! | |||
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I have been hunting with a double trigger shotgun since I was a teenager.IMO the action of a double trigger shotgun is very similar if not identical to a double trigger double rifle.Also I do have some experience with a double rifle and what is more important is I am not an idiot like you. | |||
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Time to go back on your meds, George. Cal PS. If a bolt rifle has, in your experience, less failures than a double, and you only own one double rifle, then tell us why the best rifle on the planet would have failures? _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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I've asked George before about the extensive field repair rumored to have been needed on his double in Zim. An answer has never been forthcoming. Cheers Jim ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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I don't think George has the capacity or desire to face the truth on this one. I would let him off the hook. Logically Cal, if the best rifle in the world has failed him, then all of the bolt actions will as well. All in due time. Matt | |||
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Mr. Shootaway: I will gladly help you from having to worry and fuss with the mechanical issues, safety issues, stocking issues, sighting issues, and whatever other issues you may have/had with your Searcey. I will buy it off you for 3k serious offer that should give me enough room to correct any issues. Good hunting | |||
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I never had an issue with my Searcy. I brought it to Moz and brained an ele offhand at 50yds. It's the mother of all rifles. It might see africa again next year-that is if Richard can find me a good hunt at a cheap price. | |||
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50 yards!  Why would anyone shoot at an unwounded Ele from 50 yards? Seems to remove part of the challenge of Ele hunting, which includes getting up as close as possible before taking the shot. I've killed all my Ele at under 25 yards and most at under 15 yards. Now you can call me "stupid" too, as I will be in good company with Todd Williams. BTW, I own Todd's original Merkel 500NE, among other DRs, which between he and I has accounted for multiple Eles. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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I don't care about your Moz trip. I'm talking about Zimbabwe. Are you saying you NEVER has a firing issue with your double in Zimbabwe and the PH did NOT have to practically take the gun apart to get it to fire properly? ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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I tracked my ele for days, got as close as possible and shot him offhand with my open sight double.One look at the shape you are in tells me you sat in the truck while your PH hunted it for you then when they found it they somehow brought you there and you shot it from sticks with a scope probably after it was down.  Besides when I finally got to hunting a bull ele in 2015-a 40lbs+ pounder,there were none around.My Ph predicted it would be a heart lung shot-infact he mentioned it at least three times on the hunt.He saw the conditions we were hunting in and that is how he thought it would be.The fact that we were able to get within 50yds and take a frontal brain shot was a great accomplishment for our team.I think it was 40yds not 50yds. | |||
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George: You need to: 1. answer Frostbit's question, 2. change your moniker from Shootaway to Richard Cranium. Cheers, Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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A little testes aren't you George? Pardon my spell correct software. Maybe you could answer Frostbit's question directly instead of becoming (easily) distracted. Also, Cal P once had a piece of advice he shared that made sense, "Pull the rear trigger first." There are no hard and set rules except to keep it simple, enjoy your hunt, and be safe. Matt | |||
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There is a long and very funny post on your sighting issues with the rifle. You have also posted about your need to get into the action due to a piece of wood that worked into the action in Zim. I do not care my offer stands. I am glad you have made great memories and shared them with us concerning the Searcy. You have been there and done it . Therefore, I bow to your knowledge. Mr. Jorge is going to really hate us bc we have completely derailed the thread. I apologize for my part in this high jack, but I was/am making a serious offer to shootaway. | |||
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Really? ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Hard to tell if it was a Searcy issue ... Or just a George issue!  Probably a George issue causing a Searcy issue. Did he report taking the stock off the action prior to going to Zim? I seem to remember he did but I'm not positive. If so, ....  | |||
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Gee Todd, you could have started a new trend here. From now on if one of us has problems with our double--either new or vintaege--it will be forever known as a "George Issue." Examples: My ejectors are out of time. Just a George issue. Accuracy has gone to hell. Must be a George thing. My ----- has ground muzzles. Damn George issue. My rifle doubles at times. It's a George curse. And, I would suggest to all here (including myself as I am very guilty of this), that we don't call doubles of poor quality by name, thus alienating an AR member(s). It shall never be (examples) a doubling Merkel, a cheap Baikal, or a muzzle ground Sabatti, etc. No, from now on, from this point forward, any problematic double, for any reason, will be known as a George Rifle. Examples: I bought this rifle at auction and it's a POS--a real George rifle. At one time it was a beautifully double, but has been used on a ranch in Zim for 100 years. No finish, off face, poor bores. A real George. My new double was run over by a wounded buffalo. From a real treasure to a George in a few seconds. I guess this means that I'm not a garbage collector any longer but a….GEORGE COLLECTOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL mates. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Love it when my posts stir up shit for a worthy cause, although I don't think I'll ever top my "Hein Contact" thread about that POS Greg Hein who absconded (or tried to) my money (and many here as well). Took three years a lawyer and patience, but in the end he got to spend a few days in the hoosgow and I got ALL my money back plus interest.  USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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"By George, I think you've got it!!" | |||
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Frostbit, see topic "Double Rifle Malfunction Question." There you will see that George unknowingly lets the cat out of the bag regarding his past double rifle issues with his Searcy. Note: not his personal issues. Matt | |||
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My Searcy is the only rifle I own that I would not sell for double what I paid for it.I would be very tempted if ever Searcy offered a similar field grade deal. | |||
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That's true because no one would give you double. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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I think you guys are underestimating the depth and scope of what it is to be George... | |||
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I see nothing wrong with George having pride in his only double rifle. Like everyone else here that is his right. His opinion of other brands is also his right! If having an opinion that disagreed with the majority was against the law we would all be in jail! ..................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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And statements like calling Cal's Double's trash certainly open the doors for everyone else's free speech. Just look how Cal treats me.  ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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What do you mean "…how Cal treats me.?" You are welcome to all of the double rifle shoots due to Affirmative Action laws. What else can I do? Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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If you only saw what I put in your burger last time.  ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Mac, George's opinion on his one and only double rifle has almost zero to do with my comment above. I am merely stating that George has a depth and scope of personality and mental capacity that is unimaginable to us "simple" folk. | |||
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Not to mention that he's been known to lick windows from time to time!  | |||
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Didn't I see you rioting in Charlotte the other day? _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles SUBJECT: DOUBLING...AGAIN
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