When getting my rifle I chose 450NE 3 1/4.
I chose this caliber because:
.458 Bullets are easy to locate easy to find soft's and solids, I had never shot a big bore and was worried about recoil, It seems to have a great balance of power and versatility, from what I I've read straight wall cases are more desirable, It was a significant step up in power from the 450-400 with similar trajectory, it is said to be the most versatile of the 450 to 470 class.

After having shot and reloaded for it quite a bit there are some things i don't like:

The walls are not straight there is a slight taper, when reloading bullets without a crimping cannelure it is sometimes hard to get a good grip on the bullets. Sometimes I think having a case with a neck would be more desirable like on the 450NE No2 or 470NE.

They are regulated for 480 grn bullets that are not made by many bullet manufactures, I would rather a standard 500grn loading, it is more common and ups the power at close range.

Other Times I think that i should have gone hole hog and got the 500NE, it seems to have power in spades and can be made on a reasonably sized rifle. I'm still not sure about the recoil and have heard it is a significant step up.

Question:
What is your favorite double rifle caliber for dangerous game and why?

Choices:
600 NE
577 NE
500 NE
470 NE
450 NE
450-400 NE

 

The .500 NE, because it represents the ideal combination of stopping power and tolerable recoil. Go bigger and the recoil jumps up considerably and the stopping power only jumps up incrementally. Go smaller and you give up significant stopping power chasing reduced recoil.

500NE!

It seems to be the best "value" in terms of recoil and weight compared to performance on game animals. It's a step up over the 450-470 class in terms of power without the extra weight and recoil of the 577NE. Personally, I don't perceive that much of an increase in recoil over and above a 470 but that is somewhat subjective. We've hashed this out before here on AR with some providing recoil charts showing significant increases while I've posted recoil charts showing about the same increase as 1/2 the recoil of a 243 Win.

If interested in the 500NE but hesitant because of other's reports of recoil, the best bet is for you to arrange to shoot one and experience it for yourself.

As to the straight wall cases however, the 500NE has a slight taper just as the 450NE does. That's necessary for proper extraction from the chamber once the round is fired and brass has expanded. My personal opinion on this issue is that using a bullet with a crimp cannelure is the best option for you as there is nothing wrong with the 450NE. It's a classic.

Mike and I must have been typing at the same time. Seems we have identical viewpoints on the 500NE's attributes!

The guys who's opinion's count the most in this topic are the ones who have extensive experience reloading for and hunting with a variety of larger bore DRs. I am not one of those.

I picked the 450 NE. Still glad I did.

1. Lots of reasonable cost bullets are available making it very flexible for NA. Before I hunt African DG with it I want to become intimately familiar with it, and that means shooting it a lot. There is no requirement to follow tradition and use a 480 grainer. I have chosen the 450 TSX at 2250 fps for my primary load.

2. Outstanding reputation on large DG. No power difference between 450 and 470 according to those who know what they are talking about.

Because I use a Lee Factory Crimp die, I have no issues crimping any bullet. If I were going to buy a second DR it probably would be a 500 NE, though that would be more just to have one. There would be no practical difference in any hunting application I might participate in between 450 and 500, the 500s increased stopping power notwithstanding.

If you disagree with any of that, I refer you to my first paragraph........

No doubt the .500 is the ideal compromise for a b big game double, but I vote the .600 as it was the biggest nitro double in the vintage years, so few were made, so few are available today, and it takes a bit more fortitude to carry and shoot one than it does lesser calibers.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
No doubt the .500 is the ideal compromise for a b big game double, but I vote the .600 as it was the biggest nitro double in the vintage years, so few were made, so few are available today, and it takes a bit more fortitude to carry and shoot one than it does lesser calibers.
Cal

I heard some guy wrote a book about them as well.

Well, I can't say I have hunted DG with my double. I can say that having a good selection of bullets for reloading is a big plus, energy is great compared to 450/400. Recoil is manageable. Greater than 10% increase in diameter over 450/400, and most of all the weight of the rifles are reasonable if carried around all day.

Matt

Don't Get me wrong fellas I love the 450, and would probably choose it again.
It took me a year to choose calibers and allot of research.
I thought it wold be nice for members trying to decide on a caliber to know the attributes good and bad of each caliber. This would be especially helpful coming from the experienced members we have here.

470NE I am not "experienced" in any way using DG rifles and no doubt will never use mine in anger. I have been hunting big game since about 1963 and shot a lot of it but none that one would call DG in the sense we use it here. After my reading I wanted a Searcy, a step up from a plain example and 470NE or 500. My deal came along so the 470NE is what I ended up with. Very happy with it. Going up to Phoenix Gun Club shoot next week end to try it out on those Buff and Ele mounted on little wheels that charge at a drop of a hat, or flag as case may be hahaha

Friends, doesn't the number of elephant to be
hunted play into the answer for this question?
If elephant is NEVER going to be pursued then
isn't looking at anything .458 and up a bit much?
How wonderful is a 375 H&H Flanged Magnum
under ten pounds, when scoped and loaded?!?! If
you feel undergunned at that level then opt for
the 450/400 or the darn hard hitting, flat shooting
deep penetrating 500/416. (As we know MANY
elephant have died from .41 caliber bullets...)

I put buffalo in the same category as elephant. Hunting buffalo I would rather have a .500 than a .475, a .475 than a .470, a 470 than a .450, etc. Sure you could use a .375 Flanged, a .450/.400, but there are better choices for buffalo assuming you are not recoil shy.

500 NE is the best all rounder , ,for weight, power ,reputation ,etc. Second would be 450 NE mainly because there are so many different projectiles you can use in it for everything !

quote:

Originally posted by D R Hunter:
Friends, doesn't the number of elephant to be
hunted play into the answer for this question?

I don't think so. For many of us, its more about obsessing over the details and finding a rifle we really like for the one or two elephant hunting trips we'll get to make in our lifetime.

I will be in my 60s before I get to Africa--the wife's dream house comes first, so I have at least five years to get ready. I have enjoyed the process of sorting out my Sabatti and will enjoy taking it to Africa as an old friend--albeit with the stock reshaped and the barrels re-regulated to shoot the way I want.......and a different front sight.

To be honest, I had no need to even get a DR as I have a M-70 Classic in 416 Rem. The most practical way to get to Africa is with something like a M-70 in 416 Rem, and that is a great choice, more than adequate for any animal.

So for many of us, an affordable DR is just a way to enhance an African trip, and as such we really out to take the caliber that we like the best.

500NE - for all the reasons stated above, and yes, I have used it on Elephant, but also 3 other calibers. All the Ele died. That's not the question. For Buff, Hippo and Ele I'll take the 500NE every time. Cats, not so much.

I have both the .500 and .475 No.2 as well as a 450-400. I have come to love the .475 and tolerate the .500 as I find there is a step up in recoil. Can shoot the 450-475 class all day but tire after 10 .500's. My .475 took both ele's and buff without a hitch. Now I'm having a set of .475 barrels made for my .500 NE. Should be a good set.


Dutch

You made the right choice; if the 450 had not been banned in 1907 (or thereabouts), it would have been far more popular and the famous 470, etc, would never have been invented. I have 450-400, .450, and .500; Best? 450-400 for everything but Ele, and I will never shoot one.
500 is too specialized to be a good all around caliber.

From the Thread Title - "Favorite" --450-400

From the poll- 450 NE (3 1/4)
If I were the PH- the largest I could shoot well -for me 600

ok - since this thread is about "favorite" and not necessarily the best compromise between stopping power, recoil, rifle weight etc., my vote goes to the .475 No. 2 Jeffery NE.
Why - it is just plain cool, that's why!

I voted for the 450/400, primarily because I've used that caliber & have had very good

results with it. The new bullet technology available (Northforks, CEB, Woodleigh hydro's,...)

have helped level the playing field by allowing excellent penetration & performance.

I've shot 3 elephant with a 500/465NE, & think that is a great caliber as well, but

wouldn't have a problem using the 450/400 NE on anything. Lower recoil = faster

target acquisition for second shots (if needed) & with a 400 caliber bullet you don't

have to worry about the ban on 500 caliber for travel?

Really the 450/400 NE is just a nice comfortable DG caliber to shoot.

Jim

To me, a DR is a large-caliber, close range weapon for the largest of animals. The 500 NE seems to be about as big as you can go without sacrificing "hunt-ability" due to weight and recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
To me, a DR is a large-caliber, close range weapon for the largest of animals. The 500 NE seems to be about as big as you can go without sacrificing "hunt-ability" due to weight and recoil.

I would have bet your choice would have been a 12-gauge pump with skulls painted on it!
Cal

Doh! At least i would have made it a 10ga :-)

.450 No. 2

To me a double rifle is whatever you want it to be.

A over under 458 Winchester with tiki lounge animals engraved on it.

A 600 Nitro English best.

A kugeldrilling with three 9.3x74R barrels for piggies.

I don't mind an over under, and I mine would be scoped. Probably not exactly what a lot of people would choose, but I can't see and I like their looks.

I am thinking about a double rifle and here are my top 3.

Heym 55 (I doubt, I'll find what I want in the price range I want)

Heym 88 (same as above)

Krieghoff Classic big five (I like the decokers, and I don't think the Heym's have them).

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
No doubt the .500 is the ideal compromise for a b big game double, but I vote the .600 as it was the biggest nitro double in the vintage years, so few were made, so few are available today, and it takes a bit more fortitude to carry and shoot one than it does lesser calibers.
Cal

I heard some guy wrote a book about them as well.

You heard correctly. There are still copies of the best selling book available by the author who routinely wins George Clooney look alike contests and has the physique of Arnold and the intelligence of Einstein.
Cal
PS. You and your lady have a safe and memorable time in Africa. See you two when you return for a double rifle shoot at Birchwood. Ain't retirement great? I retired at 49, ten years now, and love being paid not to work.

47ONE / 450NE type (476WR my dream) for their ability to be had in a resonably weighted rifle (10.5lbs approx) and acceptable recoil and hitting power.

My vote went to the only one I have experience with, the .500NE, so please pardon my bias. I bought it for fun, for kicks, for buffalo... and for dreams of bigger stuff someday. I've lost count of the number of terrific buffalo bulls (and some big old buffalo cows) that I've killed with it. I feel pretty secure with it. I'll tell you a story...

Last week, Meg and I went for a walk at a spring-fed marshy creek. It has beautiful billabongs with lilies and paperbarks. There is plenty of pig sign, some "red meat" sign, and, of course, buffalo sign. There's also one resident buffalo bull there, a big old bloke who has a steak of aggression. We can tell by his tracks, and by his attitude when we disturb him. Anyway, Meg carried the little Rigby, as she wants to shoot her first pig. I carried the double, in case this bull got cheeky. And as it turns out, he did. We first saw him about one-hundred-and-fifty metres away, head already held high, locked-on to us. We stopped still, and ducked down. He advanced slowly but surely, not sure of what he'd seen, a mixture of curiosity and some growing annoyance or aggression. Over the course of ten minutes, he closed the distance to about thirty metres. He began shaking his horns around, and thrashing trees, walking back-and-forth. I kept wriggling from sitting to kneeling and back again, trying to keep as clear a picture as possible as he moved through the thin scrub, and be ready should he decide to attack. Many times I silently thumbed the safety off as he looked ready to come, and then put it back on as he turned his back on us, only to face us again. Meg was nervous, and I was, too. I knew I could kill him, but I really didn't want to. It was as though something was telling me not to shoot unless he got really cross. Though nervous, I was confident that I had the right tool for the job. I eventually decided to tell him to go away, and started to wave at him and talk to him. He was reluctant to leave, but as I slowly advanced on him he turned and walked away, eventually breaking into a run. With the sun going down, Meg and I turned for the hike back to the Toyota. When I got back, Meg told me that she had a really bad feeling about that place, not from the buffalo alone, but something else. I've learned to trust Meg's instincts - the local Aboriginals call people like her "clever people", and pay close attention. I asked my students about that place and that buffalo, and I asked some of the older men as well. They agree that the buffalo was trying to warn us away from that place, that something bad might have happened there in the distant past. It might be a place of spirits, and it is that buffalo's job to protect it. I'm glad I didn't shoot. Most buffalo do not behave like that one. Well, I guess that's just a story, and not gospel on why the .500NE is the duck's nuts. But it does make me feel good, safe.

quote:

duck's nuts.

The 21st century version of the bee's knees?
Cal

I am owned by a vintage Gibbs 450ne, there are times when I lust after a bigand will probably shoot another down the road. My PH was backing me up with a Win 458 though 20grns more lead not much more in stopping power. I like the way this gun carries as the barrels are slim and easy on the hand. Would I up grade perhaps a 500 VC is awful pretty and very well made, but unfortunately I have the English bug.. waiting on Cal to put me in his will...Hey I bought the book..

If not having a cannelure in your bullet of choice is a problem buy a cannelure tool they are affordable and easy to operate I have spun cannelures on hundreds of Hawk bullets if I asked they would put them on for me...
Good shooting

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:

quote:

duck's nuts.

The 21st century version of the bee's knees?
Cal

NT version. Well, that might be stealing, as it's probably in use elsewhere... but Darwin has a restaurant by the same name!

"cool factor" notwithstanding as the good Admiral says where that 475 #2 just oozes coolness, I too picked the 450NE for all the reasons stated previously, but more importantly, when doing my research, virtually every expert on the subject, EVERY expert, past and present, recommended the 450NE, so I went with that.

I will also add, I too had issues with neck tension until thanks to Michael, I checked my dies and Hornady had indeed produced a batch of bad dies.

Now with the new dies AND a Lee factory crimp die, I've had no issues. I've also managed to regulate some 500gr 458s without too much trouble, as well as the lighter 450s, particularly the TSX, CEBs and North Forks, which shoot splendidly. Lastly, and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I believe the 450 penetrates better than the 470 or the 500? Cheers, jorge

I voted for the 500NE as well! My reasons are the same as those mentioned by most who chose that chambering!

I have seen a lot of buffalo taken with the 500NE and I think it kills as well as the larger chamberings, and in many cases better with identical bullet placement.

I would say buffalo are taken many times more than elephant and on ele it makes little difference what chambering is used as long as the brain it hit. And in my opinion the very difficult brain shot on elephant is easier with a 500NE than with a 577NE or 600NE double. It could be that even the 470NE might be even easier for the braining of elephant but given the choice the 500NE would get my vote. The case can be made, however, for the knockout value of the bigger bores for close misses of the brain on elephant. IMO, the chances of ill bullet placement with doubles larger caliber and rifle weight with very large chamberings.

I have seen many buffalo in films and live where very well placed 577NE bullets have surprising little visual effect on buffalo. Butch Searcy got the surprise of his life when he shot a buffalo from about 12 yards right through both shoulder with his 577NE which showed no ill effect to the buffalo at all. That was in Botswana palmetto groves with Johan Calitz ! Butch’s statement about the shot was “that 577NE should have knocked him on his ass” ! The buff was still alive when found.

All the above is simply my opinion and worth exactly what the reader paid for it!
....................................................................

I reload for a few straight walled cases,in some,I only necksize using bushings to set the desired tension,works great,if you are having neck tension problems I would check your dies & reloading process,as another poster mentioned,maybe your dies are not spot on.I shoot DR's in the following calibers,470,458 Lott,500-416,450-400 & 375,I have hunted DG with the first three,all work great.

quote:

Originally posted by D R Hunter:
Friends, doesn't the number of elephant to be
hunted plHay into the answer for this question?
If elephant is NEVER going to be pursued then
isn't looking at anything .458 and up a bit much ..)

With Elephant, More importantly is what time of year? One jumbo in the early season Jesse and a 450+ Never feels like too much. Chasing buffalo with a big double is also great fun.

My .450 #2 NE has done everything that I've needed it to do, from 20 yards out to beyond 200 yards.

Yes, but, bigger is better and you can't be too dead, so, even though anything over a .400 is probably over"kill", guys like to use the big stuff. Same reason we buy 500 HP Hemis to go grocery shopping with, and big 4X4 trucks that never see mud.
Because we can.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Yes, but, bigger is better and you can't be too dead, so, even though anything over a .400 is probably over"kill", guys like to use the big stuff. Same reason we buy 500 HP Hemis to go grocery shopping with, and big 4X4 trucks that never see mud.
Because we can.

Absolutely well said. We are all guilty. That's why on my last plains game hunt I used my .600 Wilkes. Because I can.
Cheers,
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Yes, but, bigger is better and you can't be too dead,

Close too Dead is how you may feel after a twenty+ kilometre treck in 40'c heat with at too bigger gun.

Why would I want to walk 20 kilometres,, (that must be at least 5 miles), in any temperature?