Thanks to everyone that stopped by the booths this year. Both shows were great, and we appreciate your business.

Several AR members commented at the shows that they wanted a less expensive HEYM double rifle. I heard it from enough to take notice, so I’ll put the question out to the group.

Although some have said the PH grade looks "unfinished,” here is what is included for 17K:

> Automatic Ejectors
> Intercepting Sears
> Articulated Front Trigger
> Stocked to Fit (Right or Left Hand)
> Customer’s choice of barrel length (Yes, we actually make them in the length the customer wants.)

So here is the math.

17,000 Base Price
-2,000 Extractors
-2,500 No Intercepting Sears
-500 No Articulated Front Trigger
-500 Offer only one length of barrel only (say 25”?)

11,500 Base Price

Is there real interest in a HEYM rifle with the standard features above eliminated?

Absolutely, yes!

What calibers would be available in such a configuration?

Doc, I think you were supposed to answer "No" ! :-)

Chris, In addition, maybe go to a monobloc barrel attachment system, and don't regulate the barrels for POI. Seems to be OK with Cabelas!

I think such a DR would sell very well...but I'd leave the barrel length as an option, no real cost savings/expense in a 24" vs 26"

Chris,

Nice meeting all you guys at SCI and seeing all the Heym eye candy.

Is there a market for a less expensive Heym? I would have to say there is as it would be in the same price range of the Searcy PH (field grade). There is a growing market for double rifles with a large segment of hunters who want a no frills rifle that is solid and dependable.


On another note, I still think there is a huge market for a newly built Howdah style pistol. It would require a different frame but if a company could offer one in the $5-6K range they would have a huge hit.

Wolfy, I was following you until you got the the Howdahs !!! :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Wolfy, I was following you until you got the the Howdahs !!! :-)

Ha Ha, you would order one and you know it.

I just ordered a new VC. The price difference quoted for Ejectors vs Extractors was $325.

$2,000 for ejectors?

$2000 for ejectors is also what Butch Searcy charges.

Make no mistake about it, Heym rifles are well made and attractive. However this lower priced rifle would be competing head to head with a Searcy Field Grade WITH ejectors for about the same price. Also, Butch gives $500 Discount for active duty or retired military.

Definitely; I don't need all those extra features and 6K is a lot of money to save and still get a Heym DR.
What is wrong with monoblocking? I trust that as much as shoe lumps. In sboe lumping, nothing mechanical is actually holding the barrels on. (I am not saying it is not a good method to make DRs, so don't go there.)

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:
$2000 for ejectors is also what Butch Searcy charges.

Make no mistake about it, Heym rifles are well made and attractive. However this lower priced rifle would be competing head to head with a Searcy Field Grade WITH ejectors for about the same price. Also, Butch gives $500 Discount for active duty or retired military.

Understood Admiral, Butch also charges $2K for ejectors! So let me say this: $2,000 for ejectors???

All kidding aside. I just prefer extractors for quite a few reasons that most others don't share. I did elect to go with ejectors on the VC however. For $325, I figured what the hell? Ken convinced me it would be better for resale value. When I stated I don't intend to sell it, he pointed out that I probably felt the same about the Merkel when I purchased it. Good point, so I bowed to reason. But I still prefer extractors! Especially at $2 Grand!!

To the OP, I do think there would be a market for a Heym with the features and price listed.

At 11K I would be SERIOUSLY interested in one!

Do you think the Double Rifle Market will follow that of the BIG BORE ammo like 470 NE from almost $300 a box to Hornanday $90 a box????
Gee what a thought to ponder on!!
By the Way how do you say Double Rifle In Chinese???????????????
Larry

Folks, we are fortunate to have choices in buying a double rifle, but don't try to take one brand and make it into something else. What you're asking for it like ordering a BMW, but then not wanting the Brembo brakes, the 6 airbags, the performance suspension, the $250 each tires, the leather interior, or the fuel injection. If you don't need those features, there are lots of other cars in the market that meet your needs. The Heym line of double rifles is designed and priced to appeal to those who want the quality and features they provide. If you don't want or need such, buy a rifle for less money that doesn't have them.

Yes

Damnnnnnnnnnn Biebs
Hate to say it but you are right again.
Larry

quote:

Originally posted by elk88101:
Damnnnnnnnnnn Biebs
Hate to say it but you are right again.
Larry

Sheesh Larry!!!

Don't EVER say that again!

Don't EVER say that again! [/QUOTE]


:-( There ya go, hurtin my feelings again!

Good point, Jon.

But BMW also makes the 1, 3, 5, 7 and M series cars at vastly different price-points, with different standard and optional features.

I believe the build quality and brand are what's important to customers.

I'm very interested in hearing more opinions.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
Don't EVER say that again!

:-( There ya go, hurtin my feelings again!

Sorry Biebs, I'll make a few extra 577NE and shoot them for you before you sell that double to make up for it ...

I did buy a rifle without those features; a Krieghoff. Why can't I also have a Heym with the same features for the same 10K? It would still be Heym brand and quality. Same theory; after they deleted all the engraving; it is still a Heym underneath. What if you went the other way and gold plated it? Still a Heym underneath. Oh, I prefer extractors even to free ejectors. I would place an order for a .470.

I would order one immediately

I just think back on companies with stellar reputations for quality and prestige that tried to expand into lower levels of the market they were in, and wound up cheapening the brand image. Look at Cadillac with the Cimmeron and Porsche with the 914 and later the 924. They came off as "wanna-bes". Toyota, Honda, and Nissan knew better when going in the other direction. Rather than trying to market a new $50K car as a Toyota, they each developed a different company (Luxus, Acura, Infiniti), as they couldn't command those prices with their current brand images. In every market, there's a prestige and quality leader, and people will spend more for their goods. If Heym has that image in the double rifle market now, I wouldn't mess with it.

Biebs,
You make some pretty good points.

But on the flip side look at Chapuis. They make side by side doubles starting with their UGEX for about $4,500 and then the sky is the limit.

I can see what Heym is attempting. First they came out with the PH model which is the same rifle as the 88B except no engraving. Most likely the PH model has earned them more sales due to the lower price point and now they are seeing if they can even take it a step lower. Only time can tell if it would detract from their reputation but I don't think it would.

Could there be three different versions of their 88B and each with a different price point due to options added? Sounds to me like it could work.

One negative being some people would buy the less optioned rifle when they would of bought a more expensive version if the option free rifle was not a choice. Kind of hard to predict anything in this business anymore.

This may get more people interested in Heyms and DR's in general so they would upgrade late on..(Kind of like a 'lost leader') You will never have just ONE DR.. There's always the next step up!

Two things...admit it or not, we are proud of our rifles, and Heym has a reputation that others recognize as value, with a pretty hefty price tag. Call it snob appeal, but that's why many high-end products are bought.

The second is what Snowwolfe brought up. How many of those buying a Heym now would buy a stripped-down model instead when given the opportunity. In marketing, that's called cannibalization, where your lower-end product draws down revenues without enough overall volume increase to offset the lower net.

Biebs
I really like the Heym almost bought one couple problems
No curb feelers
No laser lights
No stock cup holders
And they would not give me a BOA
AND NO DIAMOND FRONT SIGHT
Larry

Chris, I will take one in .450 3 1/4", please tell me where to mail the deposit. English style stock please. Go with 25 1/2" barrels for the one-size-fits-all please.

I'll have what Mikes having.

Having owned several BMW's of the top end model I can say I personally did not have use for all the features you describe but did like the body. I actually did not think my 635 was worth the premium over my 633 and my M was not worth the premium over my 635 and the difference in service was considerable. While the top speed may have differed the handling was not in the least impaired. So I see absolutely nothing wrong with deleting features on a Heym that you do not desire. The handling and looks remain the same in both cases and I believe that is the primary purpose for purchase in most cases. I know it is in my case since money has ALWAYS been consideration for me.

Make it +3,I want a 450#2

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Chris, I will take one in .450 3 1/4", please tell me where to mail the deposit. English style stock please. Go with 25 1/2" barrels for the one-size-fits-all please.

Interesting comparison; I owned a Porsche 924 for several years, sold it and bought a 944; bought them because I could not afford a 911; I liked them. Yes Porsche snobs looked down their noses at me. I didn't care. I had the name, enough performance, and 99.9 percent of the world didn't know the difference or cared anyway. Everyone was happy.

Plenty happy with my BASE MODEL BMW Z-4. Would feel the same with the above described BASE MODEL.

I fell in love with the Heyms a few years ago at SCI but couldn't swallow the price tag. I'm about a year away from having enough to buy a VC or possibly a Searcy so please make the move and offer a Heym with a few less frills.

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:

So here is the math.

17,000 Base Price
-2,000 Extractors
-2,500 No Intercepting Sears
-500 No Articulated Front Trigger
-500 Offer only one length of barrel only (say 25”?)

11,500 Base Price

Is there real interest in a HEYM rifle with the standard features above eliminated?

If you manage to squeeze in a decent piece of wood 5-6 German class (doesn't have to be sealed and polished...) and still make it under 12k...yes I guess.

I think a simple border engraving is what is needed for the PH model to appear finished.
A great number of the top British makers often only added this simple feature.
How much would this really cost? IMO, it would be worth it.

So yes without those noted items, yet with some simple border engraving would be a good offer and would compete well with the other five brands that rule that price range.

quote:

All kidding aside. I just prefer extractors for quite a few reasons that most others don't share. I did elect to go with ejectors on the VC however. For $325, I figured what the hell? Ken convinced me it would be better for resale value. When I stated I don't intend to sell it, he pointed out that I probably felt the same about the Merkel when I purchased it. Good point, so I bowed to reason. But I still prefer extractors! Especially at $2 Grand!!

To the OP, I do think there would be a market for a Heym with the features and price listed.

If you don't want to use the ejectors, Todd, maybe you can take the springs out as Pondoro used to do.

My take would be if you offer this "Field Grade" rifle make it what it is with all the <delete> options as you have listed above with no options other than maybe wood, barrel length, and colors. I would like to see this simply because I would hate to see the used PH values destroyed. There would be no way to know when looking at photos and in some cases when holding in your hands what exactly the gun has in it. We all know that all recent existing heyms have intercepting sears, ejectors, etc.

Yes it would have a fit no doubt. If it get's going 450 3 1/4 would be in my future too.