Rusty,
There is a solution..

quote:

Ignored post by JPK posted 13.February.2009 17:04

I mean, seriously, "listening" to him is somewhere between listening to Alfalfa trying to sing to a girl and a braying jackass reading Byron. It doesn't matter WHEN he's right, from time to time, its the method of delivery

JPK...my gun safe has quite a few "stoppers" in it....I just haven't shot anything with the 500 Jeff and it's my biggest. The 450 Searcy IS a very sweet rifle and wouldn't rule it out at all....and I know that double could handle anything I'd get into. I did stop a charging buff in 2006 on a Zim hunt...had NF Cup point solids in it...did wonders. My PH at the time had a 416 Rem Win Model 70. I DO love my doubles, but that 500 Jeff is SO sweet to the shoulder and I can pull the trigger on those 5 rounds real fast. But who knows...keep working on me...might take the 450 instead.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

I just thought it was a helluva deal on a very nice set that somebody might be interested in, didn't mean to start a shooting war...

You didn't start a war. You are just the victim of a spirited tangential debate.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:
You didn't start a war. You are just the victim of a spirited tangential debate.

Doesn't matter, looks like it's gone anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

Doesn't matter, looks like it's gone anyway.

You must have missed this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Josh A.:
Hey guys, for better or worse I have a Searcy two barrel set in 450/400 and 375 flanged in route. The price was too good to pass up.

I'll post pictures, groups on paper and dead hogs as they become available.

Thanks for all the input.

Josh

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

Doesn't matter, looks like it's gone anyway.

You must have missed this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Josh A.:
Hey guys, for better or worse I have a Searcy two barrel set in 450/400 and 375 flanged in route. The price was too good to pass up.

I'll post pictures, groups on paper and dead hogs as they become available.

Thanks for all the input.

Josh

Yep, missed the end of it.

This is all a lot of fun you know but I hope no one is taking it the least bit seriously. Lets look at this whole discussion from a less emotional stand point and try to apply a few numbers to the thought process here.

My assumption is that there are more than a thousand and probably several thousand people who go elephant hunting each year. They hunt with a whole slew of rifles from the 9.3's on up. Now just how many of them are killed by elephants each year??? To my knowledge none! So really, how dangerous is elephant hunting.... Not very really. It is incredibly fun, a hell of a thrill ride for big boys, soooo much fun that it can be addictive. I know that for a fact because I am. But reality shows us that it is the illusion of danger that adds the thrill. The fact of the matter is that if one out of 10 or so of us manly men got stomped into pudding the number of elephant hunters would go down real quick.

The math tells us tho that the denominator is so large and the odds of a failure to stop a charge so low that making assumptions about the whether or not the difference between a 400 or 500 grain bullet makes a difference really and truly is a meaningless exercise. The only function it serves is to give us a chance to pontificate, chest beat and talk as if we are not only manly in the extreme but incredibly in the know. . . As I said before it is all psychology and not rational analysis or physics. If you want to hunt Elephants have fun and use what ever you want to use with in reason. After you do it if you want to have internet fun pontificating and arguing about minutia well that's what we're here for

Eles,

I don't have much to disagree with your post, except that most elephants are killed at relatively long range. 30 yards is alomost always "long range." When you seek to approach close, your chances of encountering trouble increase way, way more rapidly than linearly.

An elephant, when you approach to 30yds is a challenge and if its not alone you can run into problems, especially if its a cow. Move into 20yds and you have a heck of a lot more likelyhood of trouble, move into ten yards and you have a good chance of trouble, inside of ten yards and you are well within the range where you should expect trouble.

Shoot enough elephants and you will seek the close approach, and welcome the opportunity for trouble, while dreading it at the same time. This is elephant hunting at its best. When each step forward comes with reservations. When you are conquering your own fear. And if you don't fear elephants you haven't enough experience with them. Especially the cows.

Want a safe elephant hunt, have at it. They are great and exiciting hunts, the first time. Want to live, and feel truly alive, find a willing PH and force yourself in close. But you're human, and you are not infallible, you will miss, you will not be 100% successful on your brain shots. As it is, including longer distance, no rush shooting, considerably more than 50% of brain shots are missed. Move in until you are CLOSE and keep going until the elephant turns to you and has only two options, come or go, and you are well within its defensive range and it is moving when you make the shot, well, not every shot is going to be picture perfect. But most Ph's won't approach that close and neither will their clients.

Inside of maybe 15yds, and that lower end stopper, say of 450NE performance, will feel pretty puny, and it is, if the S--t hits the fan. But you've walked anywhere from not too far to all day to get the opportunity to make your approach. Too much weight, too much rifle and you may not have made the distance, too little rifle and you may not make the approach, or even, unlikely though it may be in the aggregate, including typical longer range ele kills, survive the outcome.

There aren't as many elephant hunters you suppose. In Zim in 2006 I killed just shy of 1% of eles killed sport hunting that year in zim. Most eles were killed at longer ranges, a lot fewer inside thier defensive zone.

The more you hunt eles, the more you approach close, the more critical your choice of a big bore stopper.

Or, to boil it down, the more you elephant hunt, the more you press your approach, the more you need to rely on yourself and your rifle and not the Ph and his rifle. I've stopped two charges. Will has stopped a couple, 500 Grains three, iirc. There are other members as well. What happens when you miss, as you inevitably will? Then you need to rely on your rifle.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
You do love to see your post count go up!

Hmmm, lets see. You have been registered since June, 2000 and have been a member for eight years nine months. I have been registered since November, 2004 and have been a member for 4 years and four months. You have a few less than twice as many posts as I have. You average 618 post/year, I average 656 post/year. But then I actually use my double rifle on the game, particularly that game being discussed, and post hunting reports, while you, ah..., do not.

What a hypocrite.

JPK

"Apparently this doesn't keep you from posting

Rusty,"

Rusty,

Lets repeat the whole of the exchange, above, rather than just pieces.

So, your point was... what?

JPK

LOL, watch out JPK! Ol' Ernie has killed more elephant than you might give him credit for...
he bats clean-up in Zim on a regular basis.

quote:

Originally posted by bwanamrm:
LOL, watch out JPK! Ol' Ernie has killed more elephant than you might give him credit for...
he bats clean-up in Zim on a regular basis.

I take it that Earnie is els?

Good for him! If he pushes his approaches and hunts close, he ought to have come to the same conclusion that I have, that 500 Grains has, that Buzz Charlton has, that Richard Harland has, that Ron Thomson has, that John Taylor has, that 465H&H has, that Will has, that Peter Wood has, that Richard Tabor has, that Roger Whittall has, that Barrie Duckworth has, that Richard Cook has, that Butch Coaton has, that Tierry LaBatt has, that... well you get the drift.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Rusty,
There is a solution..

quote:

Ignored post by JPK posted 13.February.2009 17:04

I mean, seriously, "listening" to him is somewhere between listening to Alfalfa trying to sing to a girl and a braying jackass reading Byron. It doesn't matter WHEN he's right, from time to time, its the method of delivery

Thank you, Jeffe! Just did that!

Jeff, the Searcy is headed out to west Texas for a severe shake down run killing the dreaded and feared western Texas feral hog. Rumor has it that there are more deaths by hog each year than from elephants. After I have established my double rifle credentials on the dreaded and feared western Texas feral I may start a shooting school so that I can bring the elephant hunter's skills up to a more acceptable level of rifle competence.

By the way, can I shoot monometal bullets in a double rifle? Seems like they might be a bit hard on the center thing between the barrels.

Josh

quote:

Originally posted by Josh A.:
Jeff, the Searcy is headed out to west Texas for a severe shake down run killing the dreaded and feared western Texas feral hog. Rumor has it that there are more deaths by hog each year than from elephants. After I have established my double rifle credentials on the dreaded and feared western Texas feral I may start a shooting school so that I can bring the elephant hunter's skills up to a more acceptable level of rifle competence.

By the way, can I shoot monometal bullets in a double rifle? Seems like they might be a bit hard on the center thing between the barrels.

Josh

Josh,

You got a heck of a deal on a beautiful rifle there. If it was me I'd start saving my nickles to get Butch to put another action under one set of barrels or the other, and scope the .375. Of course, I'm more than a mite peculiar, and would sight the scope dead on for one barrel and shoot enough to know by habit where the backup printed, figuring the second shot never has the opportunity for pinpoint accuracy the first shot does.

Josh,
I would not shoot monolithic soilds in my old or new 400 Jeffery Double Rifle.

Woodleighs and Hornadys. Just my opine.

quote:

Originally posted by Josh A.:
Jeff, the Searcy is headed out to west Texas for a severe shake down run killing the dreaded and feared western Texas feral hog. Rumor has it that there are more deaths by hog each year than from elephants. After I have established my double rifle credentials on the dreaded and feared western Texas feral I may start a shooting school so that I can bring the elephant hunter's skills up to a more acceptable level of rifle competence.

By the way, can I shoot monometal bullets in a double rifle? Seems like they might be a bit hard on the center thing between the barrels.

Josh

You should ask Butch Searcy. I believe he doesn't care one way or another, and he would be eating the repair costs.

In any event, GS Custom, which makes premium driving band mono metals, flat out says that their driving band solids cannot damage a double barrel rifle, and they back that up with a gaurantee to pay for repairs if they do.

North Fork makes similar driving band flat nose solids. They provide far superior penetration than Woodleigh round nose solids in either elephant heads or body shots on any game, as would GS Custom's flat nose solids. I have shot hundreds of North Forks in my double without issue. North Forks are also extremely accurate bullets, not just in my rifle, but in most all rifles.

BTW, a lot of guys think they can shoot, and some few of those can even punch paper very well. A smaller number, deer or hogs well. Even fewer go on to shoot buff or body shoot elephants and think the world of themselves, but then a buff has vitals the size of a five gallon bucket and an elephant even larger. Yet fewer will have the opportunity to brain shoot a stationary elephant, a heck of a lot more difficult, but by no means a shooting feat. Its a different story when it comes to hitting that five or six inch circle located anywhere from a foot to four feet behind the point of impact, which represents the frontal aspect of an elephant's brain, when that exterior point of impact has yards of fast and close relative motion. Even without ten tons bearing down on you from single digit yards away, thats a difficult shot.

Now, lets be truthful here, lets count the "good shots" who have blown a shot on paper, and how many have they blown? On deer or hogs, and how many? On buff or body shots on eles, and how many? On stationery brain shot? .... Internet perfection is a pleasant fantasy, eh? Unvarnished reality, well, not so ideal.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

Josh,

You got a heck of a deal on a beautiful rifle there. If it was me I'd start saving my nickles to get Butch to put another action under one set of barrels or the other, and scope the .375. Of course, I'm more than a mite peculiar, and would sight the scope dead on for one barrel and shoot enough to know by habit where the backup printed, figuring the second shot never has the opportunity for pinpoint accuracy the first shot does.

What on Earth is wrong with simply working up a load that shoots to regulation with both barrels, and zeroing the scope to point to the center of the composit group?

The whole idea of a double rifle is two barrels being intirely indipendant of each other but shooting to a common composit group! Other wise what you have is a single shot, with another barrel that has no sights!

Jeff, you'll have to enlighten me as to your thinking about needing another action for the second set of barrels. I thought the beauty of a two barrel set is to NOT have to drag around another full rifle. If I have Butch build another action and stock am I not just stuck with two rifles? I can only shoot one at a time.

As to sighting in a scope with just one barrel, I would never do that. The entire system consists of two barrels and their potential to put two very rapid bullets on the target. If I sight in one and ignore the other I have cut my potential in half.

The scope for the 375 barrels is already here. It is a Schmidt and Bender 1.1x4 Zenith Flashdot. The most dangerous scope I have ever used. It has already been to Africe once for plains game on a single shot rifle. It should cover the 375 barrels very well.

It looks like the majority believe the monometals are ok. So I guess I'll give some of the banded solids a ride. I do have Corbins working on bullet swaging dies so I will eventually build my own non-Africa bullets.

All around, it sounds like the Searcy is going to be tons of fun shooting and hunting.

j

quote:

It looks like the majority believe the monometals are ok. So I guess I'll give some of the banded solids a ride.

Some would suggest you avoid monometal solids with the possible of GS Custom and Northfork. You really should check with Mr. Searcy. If you do a search you will find many posts on the topic.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:

quote:

It looks like the majority believe the monometals are ok. So I guess I'll give some of the banded solids a ride.

Some would suggest you avoid monometal solids with the possible of GS Custom and Northfork. You really should check with Mr. Searcy. If you do a search you will find many posts on the topic.

Charles is right, call Butch. Even if Butch Searcy gave the green light for the Barnes, I wouldn't use them. Do a search and some reading on why.

On the topic of one rifle, two barrels (or sets in this case) vs two rifles, there seems to be two sides with differing opinions. One side is represented by your view. The benefit of two different cartridges without the hassle of two rifles. The other side might best be represented by the view that no matter which set of barrels are on the gun at any given moment, the opportunity that turns up at that moment will be best served by the other set of barrels. With two distinct rifles, you can grab the better suited or have your tracker carrying one rifle and change out if the one your holding isn't the optimum one of the two. Merit with either view point.

JPK

JPK, I might concern myself with two rifles if the 375 set was with a 470 or 500. That would be enough of a difference to encourage a rifle change if the situation called for it.

With a 450-400 and a 375 I see little advantage to switch. Too much overlap for the pair.

Anyway I have never been one to get too excited about over thinking future situations. I tend to just shoot and reload, repeat.

I suppose an elephant hunt would be a bit of a different situation, but it is so rare and specialized for most of us to be near fantasy level. I'll probably get around to hunting elephant in a few years and at that point I'll get excited about all the possibilities. Then I'll just load the 450-400 with solids and go at it.

It will be interesting to see how the 375's do at distance. Might get used on a giraffe this summer. Now that would be cool.

OK, so the Barnes bullet is out. Stick with Woodleighs? For most of what I need the Woodleigh softs will probably be great.

So how about a postal match with our double rifles? I am going to need some practice.

j

Josh,

I think that the closer the cartridges, the less the concern about having the wrong one as well. Is the 450/400 barrel set set up for a QD scope? Today I'm in the two rifle camp, but ask me the same question just after returning from safari and you might get a different answer with the fresh recollection of humping two rifles across the globe.

Woodleighs are good bullets. Never a bad choice at the velocities we're talking. I would lean toward a stiffer bullet in the 375 for buffalo though. With Butch's blessing, I would look to the North Fork, Swift A Frame or the Trophy Bonded softs. All of these are thought harder on a double than a cup and core bonded bullet like Woodleigh, because of their solid shanks (NF, TBBC) or partitions (AF.) If you run the Woodleighs, get the protected points, they are stiffer than the regular round noses.

For buff, the Woodleigh solids are excellent for either the 375 or 400 barrels. For elephant, I would look to the GS Custom or the North Fork flat nose solid because of the penetration advantage, but I would have confidence if my loads had Woodleighs. Solids are also excellent for small critters too. Klipspringer and grysbok for example, and won't tear up the skins.

Butches rifles enjoy an enviable reputation for excellent accuracy, I am sure the 375 barrels will shoot very well.

Perhaps when the weather warms up here in the spring we should try some postal matches. I have two double rifles for which I have yet to develop loads, one is a 375H&H and the other a 45/70. I also ordered one of the just out CSM RBL Proffesionals, the 20ga rifled barrel SxS slug gun which has been the topic in a couple of threads recently. So I've got some shooting to do! Why don't we plan to "speak" mid April?

Girafe have thick skins, good opportunity to try out some solids too! Maybe try a couple of penetration test on the carcass. A $20/bullet bounty for the skinners/trackers ussually results in found bullets.

JPK

In deference to the many learned gentleman who have contributed so far I doubt any of you would use less than a 500 double if you had seen its effect at close range on an elephant
when the frontal brain shot was imperfect-it is fantastic and gives the hunter great confidence

Wombat, in deference to your experience with the 500 on elephant, some of us are not able to tolerate the recoil of such rifle. So I shall be forced to seek an adequately effective rifle caliber that is more manageable. That is the reason for the 450-400 and the 375 flanged.

JPK, the 450-400 barrel is set up for a scope. Wouldn't it be a hoot to put an Aimpoint in those Talleys? I have an Aimpoint that I use sometimes on a single shot in the brush. So it would be easy to slip it on the Searcy and sight it in.

A postal match with double rifles would be fun. Maybe have a couple of different shooting situations and then small prizes donated by the participants.

I believe I have brass and dies for both calibers in route for the Searcy. I haven't bought bullets for the 450-400 because I am not certain what diameter to buy. Butch's website shows the diameter to be .411" but I have seen lots of 450-400 bullets that are .410" so I guess I will have to wait for the rifle to show up and see what loading information Butch includes.

Do you suppose I would be safe ordering cup and core .411"s? I suppose I could shoot a few of the Hornady 300gr 405 Winchester bullets, but I don't have any idea how they would shoot.

I dunno.
j

quote:

Originally posted by Josh A.:
Jeff, you'll have to enlighten me as to your thinking about needing another action for the second set of barrels. I thought the beauty of a two barrel set is to NOT have to drag around another full rifle. If I have Butch build another action and stock am I not just stuck with two rifles? I can only shoot one at a time.

As to sighting in a scope with just one barrel, I would never do that. The entire system consists of two barrels and their potential to put two very rapid bullets on the target. If I sight in one and ignore the other I have cut my potential in half.

The scope for the 375 barrels is already here. It is a Schmidt and Bender 1.1x4 Zenith Flashdot. The most dangerous scope I have ever used. It has already been to Africe once for plains game on a single shot rifle. It should cover the 375 barrels very well.

It looks like the majority believe the monometals are ok. So I guess I'll give some of the banded solids a ride. I do have Corbins working on bullet swaging dies so I will eventually build my own non-Africa bullets.

All around, it sounds like the Searcy is going to be tons of fun shooting and hunting.

j

Josh,

Personal preference, but that set expanded to a pair, with the .375 scoped and the .450/400 with irons, would never leave you significantly over-or-under gunned for any situation short of sheep hunting. The .375 with either 225 or 235 grain bullets (whichever it prefers) should do well out to around the 300 yard mark, covering pretty much all your plains game needs while not leaving you helpless if something bigger impends.

As for zeroing the scope for one barrel instead of the composite group, with Butch's rifles' reputation for accuracy you should have something fairly close to bolt-gun accuracy with that barrel, with the other (depending on regulation, something else Butch isn't a slouch at) still printing very close.

Pinpoint accuracy with your chosen barrel will eliminate the need for a second shot most times, but when it doesn't the second shot will rarely be a deliberate shot at a stationary target, so the variance of the second barrel will lose significance anyway (I'm not explaining this well). Your composite group size will remain the same, so it's not like your second is useless, since it will still be shooting very close to the first, but you will greatly improve your ability to get precise placement of the first on a croc or leopard.

Last I read North Fork does not recommend their softs in a double as the design is different than the solids with respect to the bands. I believe there is a non-grooved section that might be hard on the barrels.

You can dig the info up with a search.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:
Last I read North Fork does not recommend their softs in a double as the design is different than the solids with respect to the bands. I believe there is a non-grooved section that might be hard on the barrels.

You can dig the info up with a search.

This is true Charles, the North Fork has a solid shank the engraves (unlike the flat nose and cup point solids, which have under land diameter shanks.) But I don't believe that butch recomends staying away from them - but surely would ask him.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by Josh A.:
Wombat, in deference to your experience with the 500 on elephant, some of us are not able to tolerate the recoil of such rifle. So I shall be forced to seek an adequately effective rifle caliber that is more manageable. That is the reason for the 450-400 and the 375 flanged.

JPK, the 450-400 barrel is set up for a scope. Wouldn't it be a hoot to put an Aimpoint in those Talleys? I have an Aimpoint that I use sometimes on a single shot in the brush. So it would be easy to slip it on the Searcy and sight it in.

A postal match with double rifles would be fun. Maybe have a couple of different shooting situations and then small prizes donated by the participants.

I believe I have brass and dies for both calibers in route for the Searcy. I haven't bought bullets for the 450-400 because I am not certain what diameter to buy. Butch's website shows the diameter to be .411" but I have seen lots of 450-400 bullets that are .410" so I guess I will have to wait for the rifle to show up and see what loading information Butch includes.

Do you suppose I would be safe ordering cup and core .411"s? I suppose I could shoot a few of the Hornady 300gr 405 Winchester bullets, but I don't have any idea how they would shoot.

I dunno.
j

Sometimes I get thinking 500NE, maybe someday.

On the 450/400 and scope or Aimpoint, I wouldn't use any optical sight on any rifle that I was going to use on elephants. (Though that might have to change if my eyes go.) That is one situation where I want all of the perspecive I can get with nothing obscuring the forward view. But an Aimpoint would be a heck of a lot better choice than a scope if there is NO other choice.

On the other hand, a QD scoped rifle, with a low power variable is more veratile for buff than an express sighted rifle, imo. Maybe the a great situation for the Aimpoint.

When you get things set up and going, you ought to double check the Talley's return to zero. I have had a set that would only return to within 2-3" at 100yds. Good enough for 99.5% of shooting, but not good enough for leopard, maybe not for lion either, imo. I still use Talleys' but double check them. Zero the rifle, change targets, shoot four. Take the scope off and then remount it, shoot four... It won't take too many shots to confirm all is well, close enough or not.

Since I don't own or load for a 450/400, I would have to defer to someone who does. Their isn't anyone who would know more on the subject than 400 Nitro Express. Rusty would also be able to answer your questions. That said, I do believe that loading the 405 bullets's for cheap practice and fun shooting is the order of the day. You ought to looking into the "75% Rule, which 450NE No2 turned me onto. The rule which seems to work for the greater portion of doubles, says that once you have found the full bullet weight load that shoots right in your rifle, find a bullet that weighs 75% of what the full weight bullet does. Obviously, for your rifle the 300's would be the choice. Load that bullet over the same powder charge that you use for the full bullet weight and you will have a load that shoots close to regulation in your rifle. You might have to message the load a bit up or down to get it shooting right, but you should be pretty close. Height might not be perfect either, but it ought to be very close as well. At 50yds, my 75% load shoots a bit low at 50 with the standing rear sight and a bit high with the 100yd folding sight, but really close enough to not even worry about it.

BTW, the 75% rule applied to the 375 (300grs x .75 = 225grs) gets you to the old light bullet 375 standard, the 235 grainer. Hmmm, I am going to have to try that in my 375 double!

If you look at Woodleigh's website, you want the larger diameter bullets for the 450/400. I don't thnk you'll have any problems at all shooting .410" bullets in your .411" rifle, especially if the are cup and core and can obturate that .001". Ruger apparently used the .410" barrel from their 405's to make their 450/400 rifles, on the No 1 platform.

We definitely ought to do some postal matches when the weather improves. Around here our local ranges' rules pretty much prevent having fun with a rifle, but I always head down to one of my hunt clubs for something other than bench shooting.

JPK

JPK, I appreciate the input. I realize that when the time comes for elephant I am going to hunt with iron sights. I am quite a ways from elephant. First comes a trial run on something big, but not dangerous like giraffe. That will give me a bit of experience and then I can move onto buffalo. At that point I should have a better understanding of the use of the double rifle in the African field. Of course, I will try to burn the barrel off the Searcy here at the ranch in the meantime.

The postal match will be great as soon as the weather permits. Give us all a chance to sharpen our blades before the hunts this year.

Thanks,
Josh

Josh,

If you want to hunt a giraffe, great. But I wouldn't feel compelled to hunt a giraffe if it was only a prelude to buff hunting.

You sound like a fellow who will do the shooting prep to become familiar and adept with your rifle, and you have access to hogs year round. The practice and drill plus hunting for hogs with your rifle will get you set for buff. If you can hit the hogs right, you can hit the buff right too!

If two triggers are something new for you, a SxS double trigger shotgun will do you more good in a day's shooting than a year with your rifle. Buy a case of light recoil shotshells and go shoot some skeet and five stand and clays. Spend a day or two and see if that doesn't go a long way. Then keep it up occasionally. A whole lot less costly, fun and the dynamic aspect of clay target shooting forces the practice to become second nature.

Also, you need to figure out how you will reload and carry your ammo. Some fellows hold a pair of shells wedged between their forward hand's fingers with the bases palm side. Some cup a pair in that hand, bases pointing toward the web between forfinger and thumb . Some reload from a belt. The second method is fastest if you can do it. I choose to reload from a belt because of wrist damage and because I'm very accustomed to loading from a belt for duck and goose hunting, which I do quite a bit.

Then there is the question of belt or shell holder slide, etc, etc.

Lots of fun things to learn and try with your double!

JPK

JPK....you need to have a look at the NEW Trijicon 1 x 4 30mm scope.....with BOYH EYES OPEN on 1 power, it's cheating! I guarantee you you'll change your mind about close in scope use....I did. Eye relief is around 4.5" or so....it's a pretty nice piece of technology....and I'm going to try one on my 500 Jeff Heym bolt. They claim they've been testing them on a 460 Weatherby.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

If you need something besides iron sights,for up close and personal hunting, the best I have found is the Docter Optic.

JPK, I have always wanted a giraffe and had planned on hunting one if we get to Africa this year. Since I have the Searcy coming I was just going to hunt with it instead of my normal Hagn 300 win mag. You are right, I will hunt the hogs into oblivion to get ready for buff. I usually carry a couple of rounds between my fingers with the single shot so I will try it with the double. I have some belt type ammunition carriers but I am bad to carry spare bullets in my pockets. I'll have to work out a better system and practice with it.

The trijicon 1x4 is ok but the schmidt and bender flashdot is better. Both do block out some of the surrounding sight picture. 450 No2 is right about the Doctor Optic being the best of the all the red dot sights for not obstructing vision. Of course no one makes a base for the Doctor to fit Talley bases. I have been calling Gary Turner at Talley for months trying to get him to build one. He is working on it, but is slowed by other work. He has promised me one soon enough to take to Africa this year. I suggest if anyone else is interested in mounting the little Doctor Optic red dot on Talley bases, please call Gary and help me campaign for it.

j

I think Giraffe shoulder mounts are very cool!

Great, good luck on the giraffe.

I have the S&B 1.1x4x30mm Flashdot. I have Swarovski's low power version and the Leupold too. They all create a huge blind zone, even with both eyes open. For the righty is is to the right and forward. Also, for much of the area that you can still see, you have lost depth perception.

I'm a decade or more from needing to find the solution, hopefully Doctor will be even better by then.

But I am beginning to look at ghost ring possibilities, different beads, different satnding leaf options...

JPK

Jeez Rusty, nice trophy room. I especially like all the Ivory. That hog in the background looks especially good. Can you show me the base that your giraffe is on? Mine won't need to be that close to the floor, I have ceilings that run to 17'2" and I was thinking about a mount that is full shoulder. Either that or the hide will be a rug runner down a hall with the skull mounted.

JPK, at least call Gary Turner and tell him that you will need a Doctor Optic to Talley adapter in a few years. Any campaign help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Josh

Josh,

Will do re Talley's.

BTW, that is a nice trophy room, eh? Can't be Rusty's, he has killed one buff, in SA, and never hunted eles.

JPK

Josh,
The room (more like trophy house)and the trophies belong to one of my best friends David Guitar who lives not too far from you.