I know this is subjective and everyone has an opinion but I would like to hear them. Rank these doubles in order of quality, usability and holding of value. Specify model, style, etc.

Heym PH, 88
Chapius
Merkel
Searcy
Boswell
any other reasonable common double.

All thoughts will be of use.

Thanks,
Josh
Boswell

IMO, there is just too much variability in the English rifles, new and vintage, to give an accurate answer. And then throw in decades of use or abuse, maintenance or not to the vintage double rifle equation and its a judgment best made rifle to rifle.

The others, my take, fwiw:

Heym
Searcy
Merkel
Chapuis

Good luck,

JPK

Heym and Searcy tie for #1
The rest in any order you'd like!

Josh:

With respect to the Boswell, are you referring to a pre-war British gun? Excluding it, I think you have them listed in the correct order with respect to quality. You didn't mention the Krieghoff, which I would place between Merkel and Searcy. The Heym has the best build quality of the bunch, and significantly better weight distribution/handling dynamics than the others.
---------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Ok, so the Heym and Searcy are kind of similar in price. Which one would you buy? Is the Heym better handling? Is the Searcy tougher? Which is better looking?

Let me know.

Josh

Heym 88 versus the Searcy Classic. Which is the best built mechanically? To be specific.

j

Josh,

Before you buy, I suggest you look and handle them yourself. The SCI or DSC would have been perfect opportunities.
I looked for years at these $10K-$20K doubles. I felt the Heym felt better in my hands than all but the Kreighoff and that was a toss up; I just did not like the Kreighoff cocking mechanism (personal thing).
You may want to consider one of these with an articulating front trigger. Some have them some do not. Heyms do.
Some have palm swells/ some do not.
I just bought my first one (Heym 88 B Safari) and am getting acquainted with it.

eez, I wish that I was going to have time to shop around and handle them all, but I don't. I may see one or two, but I am a long way from anywhere and just don't have the time. Whatever I buy will probably be based a lot on what you guys tell me.

Josh

Josh,

With respect, you are looking at spending up to and maybe more than, $20K on a rifle. You can afford a few hundred to go look at a couple...

Regards, Tim

quote:

Originally posted by Josh A.:
eez, I wish that I was going to have time to shop around and handle them all, but I don't. I may see one or two, but I am a long way from anywhere and just don't have the time. Whatever I buy will probably be based a lot on what you guys tell me.

Josh

Josh,

That is a mistake. While there seems to be a pretty strong consensus in favor of the Heym balance/weight distribution/handling, one's preference is really personal.

But if you are going to do it without at least handling a selection of rifles, my advice is to go with the Heym or Searcy. Heym for the reasons above, Searcy because he really stand behind his rifles. The Searcy Classic is the more attractive to me, but that is for the eye of the beholder.

Some of the lower priced English rifles are good rifles and ready to go, but many are not and there are more clunkers than good rifles out there for sale.

JPK

I'd give Adam and Clay a call at Luxus. They work with a few different makers in europe. They are offering a big bore double(450/400,450,470,500) for an attractive entry point(around 20-25K). It's worth talking to them.

After just receiving a new Searcy, it met all my expectations. Handles and points very well. Would highly recommend them.

Of all the new made big bore doubles I have shot and handled, I prefer the Heym, by a wide margin.

Josh,
Do you ever get down to Houston? If you do I think we can arrange for you to handle and shoot a Heym and a Searcy.

Guys, what about the Krieghoff. Does it fit into this group and, if so, where?

Dave

I personally feel the Heym possibly to be the best overall in fit and finish, but I think the K-gun it pretty friggin good too.....if you don't like the cocking piece...don't be predjudiced toward the quality.
I have or have owned all of the above mentioned doubles and also a Demas which I would rate very high also...as good as Searcy...and darn close to Heym. The Heym and Searcy, unless you buy second-hand, are totally custom fit to you. That takes a lot of possible negatives off the table.
The most accurate double I ever owned was a Merkel 470....that thing put 4 NF Cups and Solids inside 2" at 60 yards.....that's as good as I could shoot it given it ain't a .223.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

I happen to get a very upgraded turkish walnut stock on my Heym. If there is a issue on all these grade of double rifles is lack of attention to good stock finishing'
I spent another $450.00 to have a very good local gunsmith refinish my wood (fill in all the pores) and apply 30=40 coats of hand applied oil and them leather wrap the Pachymer decelerator.
To my surprise the butt stock had a Mercury tube installed discovered by my gunsmith.
Interesting that this particular rifle has no cheekpiece. I am an avid SXS shotgun shooter so it comes up very naturally and fits me like a glove.
I would post a picture but I am struggling with this photo bucket. I have pics downloaded but have yet to be able to transfer them to this board.
BTW; If I would not have bought the Heym, the K gun would have been my second choice, I found the Chapuis to be to fat in the forearm for my taste and all Merkels appear very nose heavy and balance far forward on the forearm.
Hard to beat a Heym; I have had little exposure to Searcy so I cannot comment on their offering.

Hey guys, for better or worse I have a Searcy two barrel set in 450/400 and 375 flanged in route. The price was too good to pass up.

I'll post pictures, groups on paper and dead hogs as they become available.

Thanks for all the input.

Josh

Congrat, I'm sure the rifle will give you excellent service. Was it the two barrel set Searcy had for sale, finished?

Can you post some photos?

Thanks,

JPK

quote:

I would post a picture but I am struggling with this photo bucket. I have pics downloaded but have yet to be able to transfer them to this board.

EZ

Not to go too far off topic, but I would love to see photos of your rifle, as I am sure all other would as well. So:

If you have the photos loaded on Photobucket, you should see thumbnails of your photos when you pull up your alblum.

There are two horizontal boxes under the photos that appear when you move your cursor over a photo, you want to ignore the top one labeled email and pay attention to the one labeled IMG.

Have AR up and begin a thread, or start a reply.

When you come to the point that you would like to insert a photo (I am going to post a phot as I write this to get it correct and insert it after this paragraph,) move your cursor over the photo and then to the lower IMG box, left click with the cursor within the box, this will highlight whats in the box. Right click and select copy. (I have had Photobucket automatically copy on the left click, but it doesn't seem to occur every time so I left click to ensure that I've copied what in the box.) Reduce or close Photobucket. Place you cursor where you want the photo to be inserted, right click and selct paste. You will see an address preceeded by [IMG], with lots of letters, slashes, etc, and that is the address of the photo on Photbucket, you won't see the actual photo at this point. continue with your reply or post and repeat the above process using another phot if you wish. Hit Post Now and the post will process to the original thread or your new one. When that has occurred, you should see you photo, displayed like the one below:


Hope this helps.

Good luck and hope others didn't mind the off topic attempt to help.

JPK

WTG Josh. Congratulations!

If you don't have a hosting site, then email the pictures to me. I'll post them for you!

Josh....you got that double from Butch's site???!!! SWEET!!! That is a proper looking combination...and you're right...the price on that is very good.

Congrats!

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

I checked out the rifle on Searcy's website. Josh, that is one nice looking shootin' iron!
Have fun!
That 450 / 400 seems to regaining a following and Hornady is making reasonably priced ammo

EZ

Mechanically I think the Heym PH is definetly the better option with the intercepting sears and the front articulated trigger being standard. I think Butch charges about $1500 for each option if you would like to add. The two barrel set on butches site that you bought does not have either of these options.

The little brass cocking indicators on the Heym are nice as well.

On the Heym you get;
1) Intercepting sears
2) Cocking indicators
3) Articulating front trigger
4) Ejectors
5) Best balance of all the sub $20 K offerings (IMO)
It is hard to find all these offerings in this competative field

The searcy classic does not have ejectors?

Guys, I'll get some pictures up as soon as I have it in hand. I hate to ask this but I don't yet know which 450/400 and 375 flanged that I bought. Midway shows brass for several lengths of both. Can someone enlighten me?

I also just e-mailed my PH for a plains game hunt in June to find me something to hunt with my new double rifle.

I'll smack a few hogs out here at the ranch when it shows up and make sure that it works.

Thanks,
Josh

on the 450/400 you bought a 450/400 3". The best price at midway on the brass is the Hornady sold in boxes of 20 for 31.99. Then on the 375 Flanged they don't show anything in stock but it looks like they will be stocking Jamison soon.

Josh:

It will be a .450/.400 3" NE. The best brass available in that caliber is Hornady. The only brass I see available now for .375 Flanged Magnum is Jamison, which Huntington Die Specialties list. www.huntingtons.com.
-----------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
I happen to get a very upgraded turkish walnut stock on my Heym. If there is a issue on all these grade of double rifles is lack of attention to good stock finishing'
I spent another $450.00 to have a very good local gunsmith refinish my wood (fill in all the pores) and apply 30=40 coats of hand applied oil and them leather wrap the Pachymer decelerator.
To my surprise the butt stock had a Mercury tube installed discovered by my gunsmith.
Interesting that this particular rifle has no cheekpiece. I am an avid SXS shotgun shooter so it comes up very naturally and fits me like a glove.
I would post a picture but I am struggling with this photo bucket. I have pics downloaded but have yet to be able to transfer them to this board.
BTW; If I would not have bought the Heym, the K gun would have been my second choice, I found the Chapuis to be to fat in the forearm for my taste and all Merkels appear very nose heavy and balance far forward on the forearm.
Hard to beat a Heym; I have had little exposure to Searcy so I cannot comment on their offering.

Did you buy this new or used?

A little history on this gun; It was acquired from the Company in England that went under; I believe their name is Litts???
It was bought at an auction by Bass Pro shop. I know a guy at Bass Pro that told me it was going to become available and called me.
It first showed up on a table they had at a Dallas gun show. They told me to make them an offer and I did. that is where they provided the history on the gun. They bought quite a few Heyms from this source and they were all on the table (primarly bolts), all new in large calibers 505's etc. and according from them all came from Europe / UK.
Chris (Heym USA) was also aware of this buy and acknowledged it when I took it to him to have some front sight adjustments. I think this was in September of 2008 and the economy was tanking and Bass Pro was moving inventory anyway they could.
There was not a mark on the gun; Almost too tight! A 470. Much nicer wood than you would normally see; close to XXXX turkish on the but stock but again no cheekpiece.
The gun was supplied with the Heym "plastc" case; regulation targets and all paperwork in a sealed plastc bag (never opened).

Thanks, Nitro I just ordered 60 rounds of each. What is the preferred brand of dies in 450-400? Butch said he thought he had a set of 375fl that he would send with the rifle.

Thanks,
Josh

Josh:

I use a set from RCBS, which I've had for 20 odd years. I hear they're expensive nowadays. A friend uses Hornady, which seems to work fine. Stay away from CH.
-----------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I bought 450/400 3" hornady dies for under $100....

Hey guys, what length is the 375 flanged? It looks like there is a 2 1/2 and something longer.

j

Also, what diameter bullet is the 450-400 Searcy? It looks like .408"?

J

Searcy should be .411 and the 375 Flanged should be the 375 H&H Flanged Magnum....but Butch can tell you for sure.
RCBS dies are very good in my experience...and Huntington is a good source as they usually stock them....and don't forget the shell holders.
Butch's regulation load for the 375 Flanged SHOULD be 63 gr of RL 15 and a 300 gr bullet....Woodleighs probably.
The 450/400 3" I don't know what he uses....but he'll be able to tell you exactly what he used.

Good luck with it...it's a beauty.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Josh:

There are two .375 Flanged cartridges. The .375 2 1/2" Flanged is no longer chambered. The .375 Flanged Magnum (2.94") is what your rifle is chambered for.

The story for .450/.400 bullet diameter is long and convoluted. Suffice to say, standard for both case lengths has been .410" since 1913, and still is today. Yours is probably .411". Ask Butch.
--------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."