quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Has anyone ever seen anything made by the British actually be better built than an equivalent German product?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Has anyone ever seen anything made by the British actually be better built than an equivalent German product?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Has anyone ever seen anything made by the British actually be better built than an equivalent German product?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Has anyone ever seen anything made by the British actually be better built than an equivalent German product?

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Has anyone ever seen anything made by the British actually be better built than an equivalent German product?

Lane,
Go to time out! You are hijacking my thread!
What is your ranking?

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:

I have not seen a modern British double worth the money they are asking!

quote:

Originally posted by SINNER:

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:

I have not seen a modern British double worth the money they are asking!

I respectfully disagree, the top British makers employ the finest gun makers in the world. Skills past down by master to apprentice over generations, and taking upwards of 900 hours of skilled labor to complete. Not to mention the skills of the engravers as well that adorn these fine guns, as well as the history of the houses that manufacture them. Like anything you get what you pay for, and if you have never owned a $150,000.00 gun I suppose one would be not qualified to judge upon them as to value.

My favorite picks:
- James Purdey & Sons
- Westley Richards & Co.
- Holland & Holland
- Peter Nelson
- John Rigby [Pre-War]
- Dan'L Fraser [Pre-War], Nitro Doubles
- Alexander Henry [Pre-War], No top Lever Back Action Hammerless Model

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I liked the expensive British doubles but really for a good tool...I did NOT think they were better.

quote:

You can get a brand new bespoke Westley Richards BLE with scroll engraving for 50-55k. I realise that's a bit more than a Heym or Searcy, but it's also a lot more gun than a Heym or Searcy. I've handled Searcy and I've handled WR (Fraiser, Hollis, Wilkes, Holland, Purdey, Osborne, ect)...............not even close!

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
How would you rank the quality, shootability and value retention of the various double rifles out there. Here is a list, but not all inclusive -
Heym
Searcy
Chapuis
Merkel
Rigby (new company)
Old Rigby, Holland and Holland, etc. (older English guns in general)
Others?

Thanks

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by SINNER:
My favorite picks:
- James Purdey & Sons
- Westley Richards & Co.
- Holland & Holland
- Peter Nelson
- John Rigby [Pre-War]
- Dan'L Fraser [Pre-War], Nitro Doubles
- Alexander Henry [Pre-War], No top Lever Back Action Hammerless Model

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
My choice in this list are:

#1 Old Rigby~ Made between the wars

#2 Holland & Holland ~ made between the wars

#3 The NEW Searcy classic~ A very nicely done double much improved rifle

#4 Heym~ IMO the best modern working double rifle for the price today.

#5 Merkel ~ With some customer modifications is a true value for money spent, and made on a classic Britt styling.

#6 Chapuis ~ I’ve never seen one that wasn’t very accurate. The finish on the metal is superb, the wood is nice but the wood shape, especially the fore wood’s Beaver tail shape make the very thin barrels look like threads rather than rifle barrels. With a complete stock change, to a more classic styling, and two inches longer, thicker barrels this would be a very nice double rifle, it has everything else.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
How would you rank the quality, shootability and value retention of the various double rifles out there. Here is a list, but not all inclusive -
Heym
Searcy
Chapuis
Merkel
Rigby (new company)
Old Rigby, Holland and Holland, etc. (older English guns in general)
Others?

Thanks

My choice in this list are:

#1 Old Rigby~ Made between the wars

#2 Holland & Holland ~ made between the wars

#3 The NEW Searcy classic~ A very nicely done double much improved rifle

#4 Heym~ IMO the best modern working double rifle for the price today.

#5 Merkel ~ With some customer modifications is a true value for money spent, and made on a classic Britt styling.

#6 Chapuis ~ I’ve never seen one that wasn’t very accurate. The finish on the metal is superb, the wood is nice but the wood shape, especially the fore wood’s Beaver tail shape make the very thin barrels look like threads rather than rifle barrels. With a complete stock change, to a more classic styling, and two inches longer, thicker barrels this would be a very nice double rifle, it has everything else.
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
# 56 California Rigby~ The only thing I can find good about the California Rigby is that it is built on a Merkel action, and they simply are not worth the price asked for them new, and IMO will never appreciate in value.
IMO all these doubles will appreciate in value once they are very old, and have been cared for properly. The thing that folks seem to never consider is, the classic rifle made way back did not always appreciate in value. When they were 10 or fifteen years old they were simply used rifles, and were sold as such. This is because the same rifle could still be bought new, and made to order.

This is the case with modern double rifles! As long as the same rifle can be bought new, the used ones will simply be used rifles. Once these rifles are 80 or 90 years old, and the same rifle cannot be bought new, you will see the prices jump very quickly. One example is, even with the off the shelf Merkel, the 140-1 has just been discontinued, and I for one consider it a better rifle than the new 141 rifles that replaced it. The price on these 140-1s has already gone up passed the new price most were bought at, because they haven’t been imported for some time into the USA, and now that they will no longer be made at all, you will see used ones, in good shape, jump in price very quickly. I have one of the 140E-1s and I certainly wouldn’t sell it for twice what I paid for it. I bought it ten years ago brand new for $4110.oo US.

There are, of course, a lot more double rifle than those mentioned here and they will all command a price commensurate with demand, and condition!

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:
Mac, assuming price is not in the equation, what makes a "between the wars" Holland better than the current ones?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
I would take a Heym with two barrels 375 flanged, scoped, and 500 nitro over all of the ones listed.

If one of you lovers of English doubles would buy my Boswell I would do it.

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:
[Mac, assuming price is not in the equation, what makes a "between the wars" Holland better than the current ones?

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
How would you rank the quality, shootability and value retention of the various double rifles out there. Here is a list, but not all inclusive -
Heym
Searcy
Chapuis
Merkel
Rigby (new company)
Old Rigby, Holland and Holland, etc. (older English guns in general)
Others?

Thanks

My choice in this list are:

#1 Old Rigby~ Made between the wars

#2 Holland & Holland ~ made between the wars

#3 The NEW Searcy classic~ A very nicely done double much improved rifle

#4 Heym~ IMO the best modern working double rifle for the price today.

#5 Merkel ~ With some customer modifications is a true value for money spent, and made on a classic Britt styling.

#6 Chapuis ~ I’ve never seen one that wasn’t very accurate. The finish on the metal is superb, the wood is nice but the wood shape, especially the fore wood’s Beaver tail shape make the very thin barrels look like threads rather than rifle barrels. With a complete stock change, to a more classic styling, and two inches longer, thicker barrels this would be a very nice double rifle, it has everything else.
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
# 56 California Rigby~ The only thing I can find good about the California Rigby is that it is built on a Merkel action, and they simply are not worth the price asked for them new, and IMO will never appreciate in value.
IMO all these doubles will appreciate in value once they are very old, and have been cared for properly. The thing that folks seem to never consider is, the classic rifle made way back did not always appreciate in value. When they were 10 or fifteen years old they were simply used rifles, and were sold as such. This is because the same rifle could still be bought new, and made to order.

This is the case with modern double rifles! As long as the same rifle can be bought new, the used ones will simply be used rifles. Once these rifles are 80 or 90 years old, and the same rifle cannot be bought new, you will see the prices jump very quickly. One example is, even with the off the shelf Merkel, the 140-1 has just been discontinued, and I for one consider it a better rifle than the new 141 rifles that replaced it. The price on these 140-1s has already gone up passed the new price most were bought at, because they haven’t been imported for some time into the USA, and now that they will no longer be made at all, you will see used ones, in good shape, jump in price very quickly. I have one of the 140E-1s and I certainly wouldn’t sell it for twice what I paid for it. I bought it ten years ago brand new for $4110.oo US.

There are, of course, a lot more double rifle than those mentioned here and they will all command a price commensurate with demand, and condition!

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Gentlemen, I am a fan and a user of British doubles made in the early 1900's, and I have a 9,3x74R Chapuis that I have used a great deal, and really like.

However, for the money you pay, the best feeling,handling, most rugged double rifle you can buy today is, IMHO, the Heym.

They are a good double rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

I am certain they are a good rifle. However...I looked at several side X side with Merkels. The Merkels always seemed to have the best fit and finish. To my body...the Merkels point well and fit me good. I like their fore-end better. Now...I have shot a Merkel in .500 NE a little. And...it is accurate and does not kick that bad...and...I don't profess to get a "high" from recoil! I actually hate it!

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith