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Ok, Gents... Need people's thoughts, ideas, opinions about Francotte Double Rifles. Any information would be appreciated. As I'm sure most of you already know, The Cabela's store in Missouri has a Francotte DR in .470 for sale. I contacted the gunroom and spoke with "Steve." http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun...sp?hierarchyId=10473 First question I had was "how are the barrels." He said that the barrels were beautiful, no pitting, no Cordite burn, no frosting, and the rifling was crisp and square the entire length of the barrels. Hearing that, I asked him if the gun was on-face and he said that the gun was very tight. Well, he is transfering the rifle to the Hamburg, PA cabela's today and I plan on going up to check it out on Friday morning with Doc52. (It's on hold for me so you guys can't beat me to it.) I have spoken to two other AR posters about this gun and they have given me some good information about the gun itself and about the Francotte rifles from the 1920s (when this gun was made). I would welcome any information you guys have about this rifle, this model of rifle, Francotte itself and anything else. Also, I curious if anyone out there has an opinion if this gun looks like it has a removable hinge pin. 400 Nitroexpress thinks it might from viewing the photo of the left side of the gun. Can anyone offer any more thoughts about that? Thanks, guys! 577NitroExpress Double Rifle Shooters Society Francotte .470 Nitro Express  If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming... | ||
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That is a beautiful rifle I would purchase it myself but I am $16990 short of the purchase price.  Never rode a bull, but have shot some. NRA life member NRA LEO firearms instructor (retired) NRA Golden Eagles member | |||
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Looks good. How long's it been for sale? Can you establish a price on it to confirm that the asking price is in the hunt? Have it transfered to your local dealer in VA once you've looked it over at the Hamburg store so you'll save sales tax. That and Cabela's has a very lenient return policy. Kinda hard to go wrong. | |||
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A PH had a .450 Nitro Express Francotte double in Burkina Faso when I was there. I have never had a rifle in my hands that came to shoulder so readily or pointed where I looked so effortlessly. I may be wrong, but I believe that Francotte is one of the best non-English makers? JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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 some on Auguste Francotte - enjoy  this one looks pretty similar:  here is another in 470 and more not as pretty but ... | |||
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Judge: From what I have been told by people more knowledable than myself, Francotte was Europe's (non-British) equivent of Webley and Scott. They made all of their own actions in house and made actions to sell to other houses. This gun is from the late 1920s and I have been told that the guns from this time are very good quality. It sounds like the barrels are in excellent condition, but I won't know until I check it out on Friday. (However, seeing the muzzel photos that they have posted, the rifling looks good at that area.) Mouse, thanks for the links. Right now the only thing that is a negative is the LOP. My other DRs have 14.5", and this one is 14" - But I think if push comes to shove I can get a larger pad installed. I'm calling JJ tomorrow to get his take on this rifle from the photos; it goes to him if I buy it for an inspection anyway. 577NitroExpress Double Rifle Shooters Society Francotte .470 Nitro Express If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming... | |||
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Beautiful rifle! Looks like it also has a flip up ivory front sight as well. Let us know what JJ has to say. SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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Jim: From the photos and the description from the cabelas folks, it looks like a good rifle. I will know on Friday for sure. 577NitroExpress Double Rifle Shooters Society Francotte .470 Nitro Express If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming... | |||
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It's a good thing I have been gone and haven't caught up on checking the various web sites or I would have found the money! Darn nice rifle I think and Francotte made some nice firearms. Oh well, I didn't need another .470 any way. | |||
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Here's a little blurb I found on Chuck Hawks:
SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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check the DRs at the Boise, Idaho, store. Rich DRSS Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost... | |||
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Just make sure he washes his hands before he touches the rifle - you never know where they've been! SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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The hinge pin looks removeable, but it isn't important either way. It can be repaired today if it is not removeable. Looks like a great rifle for the price. More important than the length of pull, which, as you note can be stretched with a long pad, or a shorter pad over a wood extension, is the drop. Cast on or off can be remedied with a bend. Good luck. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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Here are some photos of the barrel flats and water table:  577NitroExpress Double Rifle Shooters Society Francotte .470 Nitro Express If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming... | |||
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 577NitroExpress Double Rifle Shooters Society Francotte .470 Nitro Express If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming... | |||
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 577NitroExpress Double Rifle Shooters Society Francotte .470 Nitro Express If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming... | |||
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 577NitroExpress Double Rifle Shooters Society Francotte .470 Nitro Express If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming... | |||
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Nice colors for the age, and looks like nice overall condition. Good weight for caliber and I like the 26" barrels. Bushed pins, hidden cross bolt, chopper lump barrels, removeable hinge pin, trap grip cap, and moon bead. Lots of features on a rifle from a good maker. If the bores are as described, I see nothing that I don't like. ----------------------------------------------- "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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Nice looking rifle!!! Does aneyone have aney doutes 577 will have a new gun for the next Hog hunt.  Bill Member DSC,DRSS,NRA,TSRA A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. -Mark Twain There ought to be one day - just one – when there is open season on Congressmen. ~Will Rogers~ | |||
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Just for the record, b.blindee is French for "balle blindée" which translates as Full Metal Jacket. I would guess that means that proofing was done with FMJ bullets. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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take a real good look at the proofing of the barrels. the mark on the water table closest to the standing breech is the Belgian nitro proof mark. i can't see it on the barrels. check it out. TOMO577 DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Hey 577, I owe you 2 bucks for the spartan not making it out 
Okay, well, okay, Tom's wrong, but I won't be an ass about calling him out on it, AGAIN... Here's what the proofs read ** from "the standard directory of proof marks" On the barrels, the proofs read "crown over R" "this mark is applied to ...f) Long guns" "f" - unknown "*P" the inspectors mark, kept secert "lion over P.V." "This mark is found on barrels and locks...On barrels and on the most important action parts, .. one shot of 50 per cent over pressure" "crown over LEG" "on rifled barrels after a single proof" (see above) on action "crown over R" "this mark is applied to ...f) Long guns" "*P" the inspectors mark, kept secert "lion over P.V." "This mark is found on barrels and locks...On barrels and on the most important action parts, .. one shot of 50 per cent over pressure" perron what looks like a mitter's stamp, or a long handled rubber stamp, is the perron, which basically means BELGIAN Proofed per the rest of the stamps all the stuff on the barrel, on the flats, is more or less optional. the EL or LE is a temp proof, and all the stuff on the flats override it. what an excellent find opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Jeffe is right. The perron is not the nitro proof mark. The lion rampant over "PV" is. ------------------------------------------------ "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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Very nice rifle! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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So where is Paul? | |||
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Got up to Philly earlier today. Leaving tomorrow AM to head to Hamburg to see the rifle. Doc52 and I are meeting Retreever at the store to take a closer look at the girl. Will post info tomorrow afternoon. 577NitroExpress Double Rifle Shooters Society Francotte .470 Nitro Express If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming... | |||
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hope its as nice as it looks... go big or go home ........ DSC-- Life Member NRA--Life member DRSS--9.3x74 r Chapuis | |||
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To Paul Sr, Paul Jr and Mike P. - Have a great visit with one another and may good news come out of the visit to Cabelas! Jack OH GOD! {Seriously, we need the help.} | |||
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Well, nothing on the news so far about 3 men running amok in a Cabelas store blasting the taxidermy work off the walls. So, things must be going well... SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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I think it's on it's way to Enid... ----------------------------------------------- "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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For a using rifle I would prefer a Francotte over any English rifle..It is one of the best built double rifle out there today and the steel is much better as it was made later than the English guns...A great rifle. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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 Good for them! ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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No, it wasn't... Francotte was in business earlier and longer than most of the English makers, and made a lot of guns in the early days. This one was made in 1927. ----------------------------------------------- "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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I think Francotte has been in business since 1820 or so. Same as Ray... SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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 Francotte was established in 1805 and closed only very recently.------------------------------------------------ "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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Well Gents, the gun will be on the way to Enid within the next few days. Doc52 and I met Retreever this morning at the store. First hiccup was they said the gun didn't arrive from Missouri. A few calls later it was confirmed that the gun was delivered and signed for - now they just had to locate it in the store. About an hour later it was in our hands. I'm not an expert, but with the knowledge I have gathered from some of the finest guys I have ever met (through this forum), I put the gun through its paces. It appears to us that it is still tight and completely on face. The wood is all original with no re-checkering or refinishing that we can see (someone did oil up the gun a bit). Gun fit was very good, with only LOP needing changing (add another 1/2"). The barrels look like they are in very good shape. No noticible pitting or frosting and the rifling looks square the entire length. The gun will be off to JJ's for a full evaluation. I have 30 days to return it, but to our eyes it looks all in original condition and hasn't been shot too much. 577NitroExpress Double Rifle Shooters Society Francotte .470 Nitro Express If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming... | |||
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Sad to read. Like so many others. NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Paul, I hope you get an excellent report back from JJP. Jack OH GOD! {Seriously, we need the help.} | |||
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Congratulations, y'all! I look forward to seeing her! I didn't know Ray was that young?  Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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