First .. the rifle


with
built-like-a-russian-tractor scope mount
Wood grain only appears in pictures.. in person, its more like streaks in the stain!!

I was using winchester 300 gr x4570h loads -- just straight factory..

adjusted scope and got it on paper good
then tried to get right barrel...
had to adjust FOR right barrel (at first) to get on paper...
OBVIOUSLY crossing, but ready for adjustment

as you can seem, by R4/L4, we are adjusting in

second group
cooled down ...

now crossing about 1 barrel width..
NOW just barely crossing

I was geting tired near the end here, but you can see the "final" adjustments for today --about Parallel with barrels... the Vertical seperation is largely ME not holding perfectly flat..

EVEN 40 round of 45/70, while seated (gun NOT touching anything but me) will wear a person down

I was making sight adjustments form pair 3, 4, and 5..



all 10 shots within about 6 minutes

all in all --
for the price, a "good buy"..
no, its UGLY, really .. but like a 75 INt'l scout, UGLY is part of it.

Triggers are bad.. not deadly horrible, but about 8 LLOOONGGG lbs on the front, and 7 creepy, broken glass being stirred with a broom handle on the back ...

the ONLY mods I am planning on doing is stoning the triggers.. if they break about the same and about 6LBS, i'll be more than happy

Oh, yeah, all groups at 50 yards... I think if I spent all day at it, I could match these groups as final at 100 yards ... with improved triggers ...

So, it is what it is, a pig/deer/bear/elk rifle... it AINT a 450 NE... and at the nil weight it has, it will be excellent as a truck/atv/stalking gun in east texas...

guess where I spend most of my time hunting and shooting ---

Jeffeosso,what scope mount is that?

from pryamid air -- Jana bought it for me 18 months ago for my pellet rifle

http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-....pl?accessory_id=636

its also available in 30MM ..

a WHOPPING 20 bucks

jimatcat -- I went ahead and ordered you one, as I had to order a replacement for my BBgun

$20 with the rings,what a deal! I'll get one ordered. Thanks!

wow, i would have thought I would have at least gotten tommyboy to say how FoS I am ... i did expect a couple more comments..

i have ordered parts from midway to shoot this load for awhile!

so far so good with my 3 sets of weaver rings.... 40 rounds thru it this weekend....and i'd like to try your base too....

Looks promising so far - hope it just keeps getting better. They are a lot of fun, aren't they. If the temp would ever go back above zero, I'd like to get back out with mine.

I know Judge Jerry got his, and was having the triggers and cocking levers worked. Haven't heard from him how it went, but it would have to be an improvement.

Looks like a good east Texas fun rifle.
I Want one. Min. of softball or so would be fine.

Gene,
those groups are roughly 1.5-1.75 gross.. maybe even 2" basically if you look at each pair, its a bit wider than a golf ball.. ]
I bet with a bit more work, I could have that sized group at 100!!'

Jimmy,
I have your scope mount! send me your address

jeffe.... address sent normal email... thanks....

I went to the range today with my spartan..

I won't post the groups .. ya'll won't believe me....

i was shooting 300gr HJPs and 56gr of h335 -

was only shooting at 50 yards, but each barrel was a ragged hole...

I know you don't believe it, and the triggers might be the worst I've EVEN seen, including carcanos..

jeffeosso,

Thanks for the info for the scope mount. I also have mine on the way!

A question for you all---I went through many powders with the 350 gr. HRN. The barrels individually grouped best with IMR 3031, 51 grains. Less than an inch each at 30 yards. But, the right barrel was 2 inches left of center. The left barrel was about 3 inches right of center. I moved the regulation screw. They are now about a barrel width apart at 50 yards, but the left is now printing 4.5 inches above the right.

What should I do from here???? Any way to lower them or average the height?

Thanks,
Jerry

Another question---Did anyone locate the gentleman that made the cocking levers? I'd really like to get away from that springing half way shut.

Thanks,
Jerry

Jerry,
Wait till you get the scope, and have it lined up. My groups are only about 1/3 of an inch higher on the left, at 50 yards, than right, and that's probably due mostly to HORRIBLE triggers.

rear is long and creepy, right is a crisp 17lbs, jsut like a marlin

Jerry,
That's a problem I had with my 45-70. I ended up solving it with removing the nose cap and taking some metal out to allow the ellevation change needed.

Mike

Mike,
Glad to see you saw the post, I sent you a pm this evening.

Jerry

If you want one better get it now. I have read that Remington isn't going to continue them. One of my distributors just put 23 of them on clearance. If you want one I could sell it for about $825 plus shipping.

quote:

Originally posted by Vol717:
If you want one better get it now. I have read that Remington isn't going to continue them. One of my distributors just put 23 of them on clearance. If you want one I could sell it for about $825 plus shipping.

Same guys were sayign there aren't EVER coming in, that they will blow up, and that they can't be shot.

Have you done anything to yours? I would seriously think about yours for $825, if its a 45/70

I'm looking for one now but the only one I saw for sale was listed at $950+. That's just a little too much of a premium for me.

I got my 45-70 Remington Baikal at Lewis Arms in Concord, NH Feb 12. He also had a 30-06 left of the 18 he ordered in the fall. Both the guns there and the various ones for sale on the Internet sites have featured walnut stocks, and most of the wood has character, far more than most American guns today.
The first thing I did when I got home was to look things over very carefully with an eye to understanding and appreciating the rifle. I spent days on the Internet on sites like this, looking for real world experience. Opinions varied in two areas primarily. First there were early 2005-2006 era reports of the rifle coming soon. Followed by "I have it on order for 2 years and I haven't seen it yet", but I want one. At the same time others were saying that this rifle was "Russian junk", and how dare Remington do this, as though every firearm Remington had made was Purdey quality and everything Russian made was junk. Forget the use worldwide of the very Russian AK 47. Still there was an anticipation of the rifle, which early on was to cost under $600.
Finally at some point in 2008, around midyear, a big slug of guns arrived. Many had tired of waiting, but others like me were enthusiastic when I saw their pics. A 45-70 double rifle for under $1000! Good heavens, were do I get one? And I went on a search for one, culminating in my purchase last week. And based on other info, the supply, meager as it was, is rapidly drying up, so your chance to get a Remington/Baikal version will soon end if you are buying new.
It does appear that even as Remington discontinues the rifle, EAA in Florida will be bringing the rifle in again in the future, or so they tell me there. Why Remington discontinued is a mystery to me. I predict this rifle will always be in demand and prices used will increase.
The web forums started to heat up with info on these guns in Oct of 2008 and continue a trickle to the present. Almost all the info is about the 45-70 with precious little about the other caliber, the great ole 30-06. (BTW, I am buying a 30-06 as well today. Long shots with the 180 grain loads? Nah, I have plenty of bolt '06s for that. No, for that fearsome close range killer, the 220 grain '06 load.)
Again, the reverberations from those without any first hand knowledge were slanted towards Russian junk, "I'll never buy one." The great thing in America is that everyone has a right to an opinion, even an uninformed one.
Meanwhile, a few owners, such as on this site, actually got one and started to report on their experiences. Tentative at first, the reports started to say that the shooters were getting good results. I've been able to find no magazine test reports so the forum reports have been our primary information source.
Winter has been an impediment to more testing results as it appears the cold regions are where most owners reside. But then again, what would one expect of a Russian rifle? The results always mention the bruising a 6.7 pound 45-70 administers, which hampers long shooting sessions, even with "factory loads." But, over several sessions, the reports mention getting the two barrels together at 50 yards, with pretty good accuracy in some cases. So horizontal spread appears controllable. I'm not sure about vertical spread, although there are some posts dealing with it.
Now, let's deal with operating pressures. Many have lamented or even disdained that these rifles are "only for Trapdoor loads". The barrels clearly state that the maximum loads are to be "2200 BAR or 31,900 HST." I've no idea what HST is, but 2200 BAR is just over 31,900 PSI. Trapdoor loads? My azz! This means the potent Hornady 325 grain Leverevoluton load is available at over 2000fps, dropping only 4" at 200 yards, a true 200 yard rifle, with massive killing power.
The forums also report that some intrepid souls are loading to Level 2 45-70 loads with no missing fingers or creating shrapnel. The barrel essentially says that SAAMI loads plus 12% are permissable. Pretty potent stuff in a 45 caliber. 6.7 pound rifle. Lets get off that "only Trapdoor loads" stuff, which for most factories means about 20,000 PSI.
So my gun is before me repeatedly and as always, I am thinking of improvements, visually. And the good news is that with little money and some sweat one can really improve the lil rascal substantially. First, as I said, the stock walnut is good on most. No figureless birch as many had reported would be the case early on, but nice walnut with character. And in the machine cut stock lies a real good looking classic stock with some small amount of work, especially in the reshaping of the pistol grip and the addition of a good metal grip cap.
The trigger guard has a shank which is too short, and welding on an extentsion of about 4" long will bring it down to meet the steel girp cap, like all respectable double rifles, while strengthening the grip. The checkering sucks, but the wood being dense will take some clean up, and additional checkering would look better as well.
The receiver is blued and without engaving of any kind, except the impressed Baikal Russian model designation "MR221". I plan to sand the receiver to a coin finish down to 1000 grit, which is like their shotguns. This will remove the Baikal and Remington logos, which I plan to have engraved to replace the baked on enamel versions there now. I also plan to have the operating pressures engraved on the barrels, again which are painted on.
The front site needs some thought. It works well actually, being on a screw to move up or down for elevation. But the appearance won't cut it. The rear sight is a typical standing solid leaf, adjustable for windage, with a sturdy set-screw, and not bad looking. A new dove-tail could be machined in the rib and a 2-3 leaf ramp could be added, strickly for safari appearance. Oh, the rib will take a scope.
There is a usable, black 1" ventilated recoil pad, but a red "Silver" solid pad would really transform the appearance along with the buttstock reshape. I suppose one could consider a good commercial reblue, but the blue is not bad, and a few sharp edges can be cut back and cold-blued.
Everyone dreams of rechambering to 45-90 or even 45-120 Sharps, which is the equal of the 450 NE. The 450 won't work because of the much thinner rim. The barrels are pretty thin and the chamber portion, while beefier, might not tolerate even an upgrade to 45-90. No doubt some intrepid chap will report on this in the future. But, without greater rifle weight, who wants to fire more than a Level 2 45-70 in this gun? I am looking into adding lead to the buttstock and under the barrel shields to see if a pound could be easily added without destroying the nice balance it now has.
I have not shot this rifle yet, though I plan to hear it bark those Hornady Leverevolution loads today. Shooting for the time being is secondary to the enormous pleasure this rifle has brought me. After 45 years of owning hundreds of guns, not inventory, but personal firearms, I cannot remember one which has pleased and intrigued me this long. When the weather gets better in Vermont, there'll be time enough to wring out the shooting aspect. And I'll report on that then. But,...while this is not a Rigby or H&H, and not even a $5000 new 9.3X74R from the various makers, it is an under $1000 double rifle, made of good materials, capable of reasonable performance, and,.. real fun!
Martyboy

Martyboy,I sure like mine. It came in looking a lot better than I expected. I'm getting over back surgery so I haven't shot it. I been getting a scope & mount set up for it & collecting brass & bullets for reloading. It's going to be a lot of fun for bear hunting. I can't wait!

quote:

Originally posted by Judge Jerry:
Another question---Did anyone locate the gentleman that made the cocking levers? I'd really like to get away from that springing half way shut.

Thanks,
Jerry

Judge Jerry: When you locate the person on the cocking levers can you share the info with me as I would like to do the same on my gun. Thanks in advance..rjs

Me too,Thanks!

Rojovin:

I will definitely let you all know. So far I am not having any luck and am hoping to get some new leads.

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by Martyboy:
Now, let's deal with operating pressures. Many have lamented or even disdained that these rifles are "only for Trapdoor loads". The barrels clearly state that the maximum loads are to be "2200 BAR or 31,900 HST." I've no idea what HST is, but 2200 BAR is just over 31,900 PSI. Trapdoor loads? My azz! This means the potent Hornady 325 grain Leverevoluton load is available at over 2000fps, dropping only 4" at 200 yards, a true 200 yard rifle, with massive killing power.
The forums also report that some intrepid souls are loading to Level 2 45-70 loads with no missing fingers or creating shrapnel. The barrel essentially says that SAAMI loads plus 12% are permissable.

This is bad information. That's like trying to tell the French cop that stopped you that the sign said "100", so the 100 MPH you were doing was within the speed limit. 100 KPH is 62 MPH. Same speed, different yardsticks. SAAMI .45/70 standard is 28,000 CUP and CIP .45/70 standard is 2200 BAR/31,900 PSI. Same pressure, different yardsticks. Similarly with the .470 NE, SAAMI standard 35,000 CUP, CIP standard 2700 BAR/39,160 PSI. Again, same pressure, different yardsticks. CIP uses a type of piezo transducer, transducer placement, and a drilled case that American manufacturers DO NOT USE. Their method of pressure measurement is totally different. Remington understood the difference, and since they were importing these rifles, they were aware that some domestic users would misinterpret the foreign proof marks, as you have. So, while they were importing them, they were careful to note on their website that the .45/70s were proved for SAAMI equivalent 28,000 CUP/PSI loads ONLY.
---------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I was shooting mine today, with the still horry triggers, and managed some 3" groups, 2r2L, at 100 today ..

I'll get the triggers done, but other than than, its just so "nice" to shoot.

No, it aint a searcy, but it is a double rifle!

So, bottom line.... Are the Hornady LEVERevolution factory ammo safe in the Baikal or not?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Sarge

SB-

Welcome to Accurate Reloading.
Where are you located?
Do you own/shoot one of these Remington double rifles?


The best route to an answer is to consult Hornady.
You could pick through their website.

www.hornady.com

quote:

Originally posted by Sgt Brown - DRSS:
So, bottom line.... Are the Hornady LEVERevolution factory ammo safe in the Baikal or not?

Inquiring minds want to know.

I did a quick scan through there on the way to getting you their contact information and I didn't find pressure information on the factory loaded ammunition.
If you really want to know the answer to a question about Hornady ammunition, ask Hornady.


Hornady Mfg. Co.
3625 Old Potash Hwy
Grand Island, NE 68802-1848
USA
Phone: 1-800-338-3220
Phone: 308-382-1390
Fax: 308-382-5761


A quick look at Hodgdon data for the .45/70 shows (no 325gr bullet)
a 300gr at 2073fpsMV for 22,500 CUP
a 350gr at 2045fpsMV for 32,900 CUP

These bullets are not the 325gr, and they're from different powders - but they give you a perspective on "some 45/70 loads" that launch bullets 25gr more and 25gr less than the H-brand bullet in the MV range of the H-brand ammunition, and I have no idea as to what barrel lengths were used to get the listed velocities.

Close enough to go 'find out on your own'..?



Cheers
Tinker

Thanks for the welcome.
I am in NE Ohio. I've wanted a double since I was 14 and am now 61. I've been trying to get a Baikal since they were first announced in '04. I work in a shop and would call our distributor every few weeks to see if they were in yet. He would just laugh. after a few years, I pretty much gave up. On a wild hair, I checked Gunbroker the other day and Bingo! I now have a Remington with absolutely GORGEOUS wood on the way.

I checked Hornady's site and no pressure info. I have emailed their customer service department. We'll just have to see what transpires.

Thanks,
Sarge

Hi Sarge-

If I knew you were coming I'd have baked you a cake.

Have fun with the Remington .45 caliber rifle.
You'll love it.
I'm perfectly happy that you've found one of these neat new rifles before they've all dried up and gone away.

To be honest with you, if I had one of those rifles in front of me, and a bench with fifty yards of space between it and a target backer -- and a box of that Hornady ammunition -- I'd burn the ammo and see how it went, no questions asked.

If I were looking to hunt with it, I'd get a pile of gas checked hard cast bullets, a big bag of brass, & a keg of powder and nestle up to the chronograph to work a good accurate hunting load up to call good, then kill some freezer filler with it and call it mine...



Cheers
Tinker

Ok, I am interested. Anyone know where I can pick up a 45-70?

quote:

Originally posted by a.tinkerer:
Hi Sarge-

If I knew you were coming I'd have baked you a cake.

Have fun with the Remington .45 caliber rifle.
You'll love it.
I'm perfectly happy that you've found one of these neat new rifles before they've all dried up and gone away.

To be honest with you, if I had one of those rifles in front of me, and a bench with fifty yards of space between it and a target backer -- and a box of that Hornady ammunition -- I'd burn the ammo and see how it went, no questions asked.

If I were looking to hunt with it, I'd get a pile of gas checked hard cast bullets, a big bag of brass, & a keg of powder and nestle up to the chronograph to work a good accurate hunting load up to call good, then kill some freezer filler with it and call it mine...



Cheers
Tinker

My main interest is in hunting with it. Even though I live in OH - a shotgun state - farmers are allowed to obtain nuisance permits for whitetail destroying crops. And, said permits allow rifle use. A buddy of mine loses thousands of dollars in nursery stock each year to browsing deer and rubbing bucks. So, three of us are listed on his permit as state-approved hunters. Been using a gorgeous 1925 Savage 99B takedown, but now that will be replaced by the double.

Regretfully, my reloading gear has been boxed away since 1997 due to moving to a house with NO room for it. I must rely on factory loads. I considered the Hornady loads because, frankly, they are $15 a box cheaper than Rem or Win and seem to be a good hunting load. Conversly, I have considered lead "cowboy" loads because you don't need anything fancy when a great big lead slug hits. (My regular season deer gun is a .62 cal German jaeger flintlock firing a 340 gr roundball.)

Anyhow, "Pungee, hand me the Baikal. That whitetail is about to charge!"

Sarge

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Ok, I am interested. Anyone know where I can pick up a 45-70?

All I can say is to do what I did. Watch Gunbroker.com, AuctionArms.com and GunsAmerica.com for one to turn up.

Sarge

Sarge
I emailed Hornady back about a year ago when i got mine; they emailed back saying no problem. I shot them in mine. Did ok, but booted a bit more than the factory 405's. Enjoy!
Rick