quote:

Originally posted by Macs B:
I've never understood the American gun guy notion that refinishing vintage guns takes away from the value.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
I'd like to weigh in here, gents, if you don't mind.
As Rocdoc wrote, many of the English and Scottish rifles and shotguns were refinished after a season or two of hard use.

While it is near blasphemy to refinish a Colt or Winchester, it is not so with a vintage firearm from the UK, as long as the following rule is adhered to: refinish to original specifications.

I can't stress original specs enough. To reblack the barrels or oil the stock is fine. To case color the action if done in a reserved, almost muted color, as the originally made, is also fine. The above do not detract from the value as the value is low anyway if in poor condition. If rechecked, then to the original style.

The only thing that can't be fixed is a poor bore in a rifled firearm. A smooth bore can be honed to shiny or near so. This can't be done with a Paradox bore or other rifled choked ball and shot gun.

What will definitely hurt the value is to cut the barrels, to line the bores, to replace the wood, to replace the sights with something that did not come on the rifle when new, to drill for a scope, to port the muzzles (yes I have seen this done), to shorten the stock (many of the specs are in the factory ledgers), to mono block the barrels, to put a gloss polyurethane finish on the wood, etc…

If kept to original specs, I have not shied away from a purchase. I have walked away from those refurbished away from the original.

I would add in closing, any work done should be done by a well known and competent gunsmith or firm. The newly blacked barrels, even if visually look the same, are more desirable if done by Griffin and Howe than by the local 'smith whose specialty is recutting checkering, screwing on a synthetic stock, or bore sighting a 'scope. Just my opinion.

Cheers mates,
Cal

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Well said Cal!

quote:

At the risk of sounding like a heretic, what is your opinion about refinishing vintage guns?

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:

quote:

At the risk of sounding like a heretic, what is your opinion about refinishing vintage guns?

As a "Brit" as far as OUR double shot guns and double rifles are concerned I see no problem. Indeed it would have been quite normal to EXPECT to at the very least re-black the barrels during its early lifetime and re-joint the action to the barrels during its later lifetime.

And maybe, if needed, the trigger guard and the top lever and all the other black parts as and when the barrels were done.

However the action would have been left alone and not re-coloured as to do so invites risk of cracking it under the stress of the quenching or a need to "rectify" it of it alters shape under that re-colour. Indeed in UK a re-colour is always "at owners risk" as some actions will crack.

Stocks, again, when needed would have been re-cut to refresh the chequering on the wrist.

And if badly worn through to bare wood re-oil finish the stock and/or forend to re-seal them against water.

Indeed my late father's gun made for him in 1919 on his twelvth birthday has had the barrels re-blacked twice and my Boss barrels I've just had re-blacked.

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
MAC:
You need to write a book(s) on doubles.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Maybe I should not have said that, MAC, as then folks would buy your books and not mine!
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Maybe I should not have said that, MAC, as then folks would buy your books and not mine!
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Rockdoc:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Maybe I should not have said that, MAC, as then folks would buy your books and not mine!
Cal

+1

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Mr. Mac: I mean this in all sincerity, you and Mr. Cal should collaborate on a book.

Primer on double rifles volume 2 or an advanced edition.

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
I think too many people with old beat up doubles are too concerned about restoration reducing value. I haven't seen one beater yet that wasn't worth more after a decent repair/restoration.

Collectors are looking for guns in original condition but only if they are fully functional and in very good or better condition. If a gun has lost blacking to the barrels, has a pitted action and or barrels, checkering worn smooth, cracks, a broken buttplate, or wood with numerous scrapes and gouges it has little if any "collector value" to a true collector.

Not a double but this still serves as an example. The rifle is a Rigby ordered by Col. Wools Sampson, a well known hero of the Boer Wars, and delivered to him in 1903. The Rigby records list the rifle, date, and Sampson as the purchaser.

I picked the rifle up for a very good price. The price was low because it had little if any "collector value". What collector would want to collect this?



I had it restored. The barel was blacked. The front sight was rebuilt. A front sling swivel was procured and soldered where an original had been but had since fallen off. Very worn parts of the engraving were re-cut, as was the barrel lettering. The safety lever was bent back to where it belonged to stop it from dragging across the action. The action was re-colored. The stock and checkering were "refreshed". Even the case had a going over.

It became a very nice rifle and good shooter.





I kept it for a couple of years. I shot it from time to time and even used it once in a Big Bore competition shoot. My interest went elsewhere and I sold it. I had gathered some interesting provenance to go with it and a collector purchased it. It was worth considerably MORE after the restoration than before - even to a collector.