Is there anyone making a double rifle now with a single trigger?

Smaller caliber O/Us, but I don't know of any SXS.

quote:

Originally posted by ryry4:
Is there anyone making a double rifle now with a single trigger?

Heresy!

You can order them with a single trigger most likely. Who would want a single trigger?

Krieghoff does up to 375. Larger bore than 375 there will be 2 triggers.

I agree with Todd and Sam. I suggest that you seriously consider double triggers. I'm a slow learner, took me about 25 years

Westley Richards makes a reliable single-trigger. Personally would prefer a double-trigger set-up.

Dutch

I think that a single trigger destroys the raison d'etre for any double rifle, certianly any s/b/s double of being two separate rifles on one common stock.

Why do it? It removes the certainty that if the right barrel fails that the left will be available. For if an inertia single trigger then the left barrel cannot fire if the right barrel does not. The trigger won't set itself up.

And it removes the instant slecetion of soft point or solid bulleted cartridge, as I understand some hunters prefer, in large calibre DRs for certain large game.

Also it adds complication and expense at the cost of simplicity and function.

If you want a single trigger double rifle buy a modern Browning BAR in a large calibre option.

As others have stated, two triggers are much prefered on double rifles, especially when used for Dangerous Game.

With a little practice it becomes second nature.

Acutally I learned to use two triggers when I was a young kid. My first shotgun was a Savage Stevens, Model 311 in 20 guage. It had two barrels and two triggers.
I still have it...

Single triggers do not belong on double rifles. Period. If you want one, you will need therapy to change your thinking.

Nicely said dpcd !!

The post below was posted by me several years ago in response to the same question asked by the OP in this thread. It still applies!

SINGLE TRIGGERS ON DOUBLE RIFLES

For those who are of the opinion that single triggers on a double rifle are fine and bare no ill factors, I would ask them if their opinion is based on extensive experience with single triggers on dangerous game confrontations as was suggested above as being a factor?

If that DGR pressure factor is the only difference to the pro single trigger fan, even though no failures were experienced, how is that fact relevant? Those in opposition to single triggers may have had failures in the thousands of shots taken in clay bird competition. I would say far fewer shots are fired on dangerous game than are fired on clay pigeons, and I admit it is far more likely to happen the more shots fired in a single firearm. The fact is, it may happen on the first shot on an elephant just the same!

Some of those guys are under extreme pressure when competing for a living! They don’t win they don’t pay the bills.

There are hundreds of people who have years of experience with single triggers of both types on double shotguns that have never even seen an African elephant, or Cape buffalo, and have never fired a double rifle in their lives. Does that mean the malfunctions they experience don’t count because the shooters weren’t killed because of them? It is true pressure causes people to make mistakes, but it can’t cause a broken spring or firing pin, or cause a mechanical trigger to not work properly and re-set to the barrel that will still work.

Gentlemen, when flipped, the coin tossed weighs no more on one side than the other, and which side ends up on top is pure chance! Mr. Murphy decides when and where, and for whom the bell tolls!

So are we to believe we need extensive experience on any feature on a double rifle to understand how they work properly and to be aware of the drawbacks they can cause when they don’t work properly? Is that what is being said here, or is, what it means is, one must have extensive experience using that feature when standing in front of a charging elephant or buffalo for that persons understanding to have merit? I’m not saying those who have considerably more experience than I are automatically wrong, but on the other hand nothing I’ve read here means they are right either.

If experience is the key here, then let’s defer to someone we all know has more experience with shooting dangerous game with a double rifle than anyone posting here!

quote:

By John Taylor: From page’s 325 & 326 in his book AFRICAN RIFLES & CARTRIDGES
Single-Triggers. This, of course, applies only to double rifles. The only double rifle, that I have ever seen with single trigger mechanism were Westley Richards’ but have little doubt that you could persuade other firms to give you single-triggers on their best grade weapons if you insisted on it. The advantages claimed for only having one trigger instead of two on a DB weapon are so well known now that that I hardly think it necessary to go into that here. Generally speaking, I would not recommend a beginner use them because if you have one DB weapon so fitted, then you must have all your DB, guns and rifle similarly fitted.

If you were only shooting non-dangerous game, then it wouldn’t matter how many triggers you had, but when you are close to dangerous beasts you do not want to be having to remember things that you might easily forget.

You see it would be absolutely essential that the mechanisms should be the selective variety, so you could fire either barrel first, and you would have to remember to shift whatever mechanism there was before you could dare open the breech for the purpose of re-loading without firing left, so that if you were suddenly attacked before you had gotten the shell into the chamber you could snap-to the breech and fire the left barrel. If you had forgotten to shift whatever slide or other control mechanism before opening the breech, then, then you would find yourself snapping the lock of the empty right barrel when endeavoring to stop the charge, because opening the breech re-sets the mechanism of the single trigger device. Besides it is very, very seldom that you are called upon to fire so quickly that you couldn’t take the shot with two triggers. Really powerful rifle jump to a greater or lesser extent on being fired, so that you could hardly expect to fire them as rapidly as an auto-loader. Nevertheless, in fairness to Westley Richards’ selective single- trigger mechanism I must admit that on two or three occasions when tackling elephant in very thick stuff, and there were only two or three, and I knew exactly where they were, so that I didn’t mind firing the left barrel without first reloading the right, I am pretty sure that I was enabled to get two where with an ordinary double-trigger rifle I would not have gotten more than one. It was occasionally the same with rhino and buffalo when I would just get the merest fleeting glimpse of a vital spot as the animal passed across a small gap in the foliage on the heels of the first shot, or even as the first beast fell and exposed for an instant a companion. One step, in that stuff, and your quarry disappears. However, taking everything into consideration, I decided that it was better in every way to stick to two triggers for Dangerous game, and so discarded my 577.

.


That quote of Taylor shows some of the draw-backs to the single selective trigger, but then we have to look at the single non-selective mechanical single trigger some say are OK because they automatically re-sets to the left barrel if pulled on a dud, and the left barrel will still fire! That statement is true as far as it goes, but what happens after you fire that left barrel, and you break to re-load them both? When the rifle is opened it re-sets the trigger to the right barrel again. If that was simply a dud then you are still in business, but what if the problem was a broken spring or a broken firing pin on that right barrel? The trigger would be pulled first for the broken barrel, and would have to be pulled twice every time you wanted to fire the left barrel if that good barrel happens to be the left barrel! With this same situation on a double trigger rifle, it makes no difference which barrel breaks, you simply use the rifle as a single shot, and only load the good barrel, and pull only that trigger!

These things are the things that both sides depend on to work as a double rifle! Things that accentually can put a double rifle OTS for all practical purposes! Everyone knows, as well, that when the crap hits the fan it is usually, as the old farmer says, when “you Ain’t got no rain coat!”

................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
You can order them with a single trigger most likely. Who would want a single trigger?

Anxwer:

Will for one and Sutherland used a pair of single trigger WR 577's. Not many have killed as many elephant as Sutherland.

465H&H

Add insanity, stupidity, sacrilege! Anyone who entertains that thought should climb a tall mountain in search of the "wise mam" to obtain a smart pill!

Although I have never owned a personal double rifle with a single trigger I have used them on loaner guns while hunting in Europe and sold a few in the US.
On a small double, 9.3 or smaller used for hunting driven game in Europe or hunting non-dangerous game in the US it makes no difference if single or double trigger. Some people have trouble switching back & forth between double & single triggers. If you have problems it makes sense to try & have all of your guns with the same triggers.
V-C offers a single trigger as a option (both selective & non-selective are available) for smaller doubles but only double triggers are available for the guns larger than 9.3.

I don't like single triggers as I said before but I have shot double trigger SXSs all my life and it is second nature to move from front to back. Now if a person wants a single trigger gun that's fine and for people who have never fired a double trigger gun it may be best to stay with a single trigger that is non selective. Those safeties stuck in the middle won't do well in a dangerous game heat of the battle. A person who has used a double trigger gun has no problems switching to a single trigger gun but not vice versa.

Chapuis made me a 30-06 Ugex side by with a single trigger a few years back. I'm sure you can still order with one if you want.

ps. Didn't like it......long gone.

Easy boys, wasn't looking for a tongue lashing. The reason for my question was I struggle with getting two shots off with my over/under shotgun that has double triggers and was curious if someone made a double rifle with a single trigger. I've always admired them and would love to pick one up one day.

Looks like my question was answered.

I've re-visited here as it recalled a day, twenty five years ago in Scotland on grouse. Walking up.

We all had double guns then, the "team" and all were standard side-by-side double trigger "English" guns or clones of such "English" guns made in Spain.

After about a half hour into the day one of our party was heard to fire a shot, then another. Then exclamed "Shit!"

John Murdoch was his name. A bear of a man with a big black beard and a kind and generous nature. And now a gun with a broken firing pin.

Why? He'd fired two shots at a bird and hit it. But on opening his gun the tip of the firing pin in his right barrel had fallen out. To be lost in the heather.

So the rest of his day he had a single shot, left barrel only, side-by-side.

But. Had he had an inertia single trigger gun that, effectively, would have been his shooting finished.

Now I know that with snap caps you fire the first barrel then hit the stock on the ground to simulate the recoil and fire the second barrel as normal.

But would you really want to do that with a live cartridge and not a snap cap in the gun?

So as another poster has said two barrels are better with two triggers. As a firing pin only ever breaks when the gun is fired. Which usually means that it is in use....

And for all I know Mr Murdoch's firing pin end still lies today a quarter century later, in the heather above Comrie.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Anxwer:

Will for one and Sutherland used a pair of single trigger WR 577's. Not many have killed as many elephant as Sutherland.

465H&H

..........And far fewer have chosen a DGR double rifle with a single trigger!

.......................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Anxwer:

Will for one and Sutherland used a pair of single trigger WR 577's. Not many have killed as many elephant as Sutherland.

465H&H

..........And far fewer have chosen a DGR double rifle with a single trigger!

.......................................................................

Absolutely true Mac! But we need to remember that most of the first double rifles were built for Englishmen. Most of these hunters started out driven bird shooting in England or Scotland.
Those double shotguns were usually choked cylinder or imp cylinder in one barrel and full in the other. The double triggers gave them an instant choice of chokes to match the fast changing conditions of flighted birds. Single trigger shotguns were very rare in these bird fields for that reason. It is only natural when these hunters got a double rifle for African or Indian hunting, they would prefer the same trigger set up on their rifles as their shotguns had. The few that preferred single triggers, never had much experience with double trigger shotguns so preferred single triggers such as were found on the military weapons that they had used in their past service. Will is one of those who prefer a single trigger double as they have never mastered the change to double triggers and for him that has been a safety concern when DG hunting. I think for him it is a wise decision.

Seldom does one size fit all.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Absolutely true Mac! But we need to remember that most of the first double rifles were built for Englishmen. Most of these hunters started out driven bird shooting in England or Scotland.
Those double shotguns were usually choked cylinder or imp cylinder in one barrel and full in the other. The double triggers gave them an instant choice of chokes to match the fast changing conditions of flighted birds. Single trigger shotguns were very rare in these bird fields for that reason. It is only natural when these hunters got a double rifle for African or Indian hunting, they would prefer the same trigger set up on their rifles as their shotguns had. The few that preferred single triggers, never had much experience with double trigger shotguns so preferred single triggers such as were found on the military weapons that they had used in their past service. Will is one of those who prefer a single trigger double as they have never mastered the change to double triggers and for him that has been a safety concern when DG hunting. I think for him it is a wise decision.

Seldom does one size fit all.

465H&H

I agree that all the above is true with the reasons people buy single trigger shotguns, and that some like Will simply can't master the double triggers on a double rifle. In fact will is really not a double rifle person with any type of trigger, or triggers, preferring bolt action rifles.

Still none of these truths changes the draw-backs of a single trigger on a big bore dangerous game double rifle used for dangerous game. Especially if the single trigger is of the inertia type, and even the selective type can get you killed if something happens to one side or the other, or as Taylor said you forget to change the select feature to fire the working barrel first on a selective trigger, to cause it to fire the good side first every time the rifle is reloaded to make it a single shot.

In the final analysis, the single trigger is the only thing that can totally turn a working double rifle into a 12 pound club!

I've bought my FN-Browning O/U in 9,3x74R in 1982 and its single trigger has served me well in those 32 years. True, I've experienced one misfire with a factory Norma round (it never happened with my handloads). It was while drive hunting wild boar and after that ominous "click", the running animal disappeared into thick cover, leaving no chance for a second shot, be it from a single or double-trigger. Now, on the positive side, the L.O.P. and trigger do match those of my FN B25 and B525 shotguns. Smoothbores or rifle, they all feel the same when I shoulder. I have nothing against double-triggers but then feel I should have them on all my guns, especially if they're of the kind to be fired in a hurry.

I think single triggers came about through the automatic craze or when people wanted everything that was automatic.

Of course, you can have a single trigger on an over and under since you have already strayed from the pack so no one cares about that. But for a classic side by side; no. It's gauche.
And shoot is right on his last post about the automatic modern stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by Andre Mertens:
I've bought my FN-Browning O/U in 9,3x74R in 1982 and its single trigger has served me well in those 32 years. True, I've experienced one misfire with a factory Norma round (it never happened with my handloads). It was while drive hunting wild boar and after that ominous "click", the running animal disappeared into thick cover, leaving no chance for a second shot, be it from a single or double-trigger. Now, on the positive side, the L.O.P. and trigger do match those of my FN B25 and B525 shotguns. Smoothbores or rifle, they all feel the same when I shoulder. I have nothing against double-triggers but then feel I should have them on all my guns, especially if they're of the kind to be fired in a hurry.

Did it ever make you wonder why all big bore above 9.3 are made with double triggers and manual safeties? If anyone is confused about single being available on big bore doubles by special order only, and auto safeties the same.

There is a very legitimate reason, and that reason is because it an unnecessary complex pair of features that leaves a wide window for mistakes at a very critical time. That is DURRING A MUST STOP situation where even the simplest momentary failure on the part of the rifle or the shooter can by life threatening.

I also have a single trigger O/U 9.3X74R double rifle, and several O/U shotguns with single triggers. The shotguns all have selective triggers, but the rifle is a mechanical single trigger. That rifle fires the bottom barrel first then automatically shifts to the top barrel. So! If the striker happens to break putting the bottom barrel out of service, that leaves the top barrel the only one still working, so if you want to use the rifle as a single shot it will be necessary to pull the trigger twice every time you fire the rifle. On the other hand, if that trigger were an inertia type, which cant be a selective type, because the rifle doesn’t mechanically cock the top barrel, it will necessary bang the butt of the rifle on the ground to simulate recoil to cock the top barrel. I certainly do not want to bang a $20K rifle on the ground to cock it! Besides when a Cape buffalo, or elephant is closing on you fast who has time to do anything other than try their damndest to get off a stopping shot!

Since the 9.3X74R is legal for dangerous game in many countries in Africa, they are often used a back-up for the big bore to finish the safari if anything happens to the big bore, or the big bore is lost in transit that single trigger could be a game changer in a heart beat.

With non-dangerous game the broken striker is a mere inconvenience, and that is why you see 99% of the double rifles with single triggers on O/U double rifles almost never chambered for cartridges more powerful than the 9.3X74R, because they are intended for deer, and wild boar, not dangerous game.

....................................................................

Mac,you come across as the type who would buy a single trigger double.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:




I also have a single trigger O/U 9.3X74R double rifle, and several O/U shotguns with single triggers. The shotguns all have selective triggers, but the rifle is a mechanical single trigger. That rifle fires the bottom barrel first then automatically shifts to the top barrel. On the other hand, if that trigger were an inertia type, which cant be a selective type, because the rifle doesn’t mechanically cock the top barrel, it will necessary bang the butt of the rifle on the ground to simulate recoil to cock the top barrel. I certainly do not want to bang a $20K rifle on the ground to cock it!


....................................................................

The double rifles I own and hunt with, some have 2 triggers, and others have single triggers of both the mechanical and inertia mechanisms.
My preference is for 2 triggers, but having said that, I really don't have any problems with the single trigger systems.

One of the most detrimental (and dangerous) things concerning single triggers is the amount of misinformation concerning their operation.
You can find this misinformation repeated over and over on various internet hunting forums.

quote:

if that trigger were an inertia type, which cant be a selective type, because the rifle doesn’t mechanically cock the top barrel, it will necessary bang the butt of the rifle on the ground to simulate recoil to cock the top barrel.

The quote above is a typical example.

Double barrel rifles and shotguns which are fitted with single inertia triggers DO NOT USE RECOIL TO COCK THE TOP or SECOND BARREL!
They cock BOTH barrels when the gun is broken open.

The inertia weight simply uses recoil to reset the trigger to the second sear to allow the trigger to FIRE the second barrel, not to cock the second barrel.

Also inertia trigger doubles CAN be fitted with a barrel selector because BOTH barrels ARE mechanically cocked.

quote:

I also have a single trigger O/U 9.3X74R double rifle, and several O/U shotguns with single triggers. The shotguns all have selective triggers, but the rifle is a mechanical single trigger. That rifle fires the bottom barrel first then automatically shifts to the top barrel.

Mac, your 9.3x74R O/U Grand European is actually factory fitted with an inertia trigger, NOT a mechanical trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by 5seventy:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:




I also have a single trigger O/U 9.3X74R double rifle, and several O/U shotguns with single triggers. The shotguns all have selective triggers, but the rifle is a mechanical single trigger. That rifle fires the bottom barrel first then automatically shifts to the top barrel. On the other hand, if that trigger were an inertia type, which cant be a selective type, because the rifle doesn’t mechanically cock the top barrel, it will necessary bang the butt of the rifle on the ground to simulate recoil to cock the top barrel. I certainly do not want to bang a $20K rifle on the ground to cock it!


....................................................................

The double rifles I own and hunt with, some have 2 triggers, and others have single triggers of both the mechanical and inertia mechanisms.
My preference is for 2 triggers, but having said that, I really don't have any problems with the single trigger systems.

One of the most detrimental (and dangerous) things concerning single triggers is the amount of misinformation concerning their operation.
You can find this misinformation repeated over and over on various internet hunting forums.

quote:

if that trigger were an inertia type, which cant be a selective type, because the rifle doesn’t mechanically cock the top barrel, it will necessary bang the butt of the rifle on the ground to simulate recoil to cock the top barrel.

The quote above is a typical example.

Double barrel rifles and shotguns which are fitted with single inertia triggers DO NOT USE RECOIL TO COCK THE TOP or SECOND BARREL!
They cock BOTH barrels when the gun is broken open.

The inertia weight simply uses recoil to reset the trigger to the second sear to allow the trigger to FIRE the second barrel, not to cock the second barrel.

Also inertia trigger doubles CAN be fitted with a barrel selector because BOTH barrels ARE mechanically cocked.

quote:

I also have a single trigger O/U 9.3X74R double rifle, and several O/U shotguns with single triggers. The shotguns all have selective triggers, but the rifle is a mechanical single trigger. That rifle fires the bottom barrel first then automatically shifts to the top barrel.

Mac, your 9.3x74R O/U Grand European is actually factory fitted with an inertia trigger, NOT a mechanical trigger.

Well 5seventy where have you been? We've missed you here on AR!

Once more I must stand corrected! Let me save those corrections to a file! Thank you sir!

Regardless, neither of the two corrections takes away the draw-backs of a single trigger on a double rifle that is to be used to hunt dangerous game! I simply do not like single triggers on a big bore double rifle, if anything happens to one they pose too many unnecessary things to think about in a short time when the crap hits the fan! Things that can be easily solved by simply changing triggers! Others may do as it suits!

...................................... ......

MacD37 has it right.

1. my 2 FN B25's have a single mechanical trigger WITH a bbl. selector combined in the thumb safety (push/pull = safety and right/left = under/over bbl.);

2. my FN CCS 25 O/U rifle and my Browning B525 12-3" have a single inertia trigger + same bbl. selector as described above.

In case of a misfire (whatever bbl. being selected first) with guns listed in:

1. press the trigger again and the second bbl. will fire ;

2. both bbls. are cocked by opening the rifle and the second bbl. trigger is indeed "armed" by the first's recoil, there's no need to unshoulder and bump the gun's butt. Just push/pull the thumb safety/selector on and off and the second bbl. will fire at the next trigger pull.

This is another argument in favour of having all double barrelled guns using the same trigger system to avoid fumbling and react reflexively to an unexpected problem. Anecdotally, when the misfire reported in my above post occurred and being familiar with my single triggers, I responded automatically by sliding the thumb safety on/off but to no avail, the boar having already disappeared in the shrubbery.

quote:

Originally posted by Andre Mertens:
MacD37 has it right.

1. my 2 FN B25's have a single mechanical trigger WITH a bbl. selector combined in the thumb safety (push/pull = safety and right/left = under/over bbl.);

2. my FN CCS 25 O/U rifle and my Browning B525 12-3" have a single inertia trigger + same bbl. selector as described above.

In case of a misfire (whatever bbl. being selected first) with guns listed in:

1. press the trigger again and the second bbl. will fire ;

2. both bbls. are cocked by opening the rifle and the second bbl. trigger is indeed "armed" by the first's recoil, there's no need to unshoulder and bump the gun's butt. Just push/pull the thumb safety/selector on and off and the second bbl. will fire at the next trigger pull.

This is another argument in favour of having all double barrelled guns using the same trigger system to avoid fumbling and react reflexively to an unexpected problem.

Anecdotally, when the misfire reported in my above post occurred and being familiar with my single triggers, I responded automatically by sliding the thumb safety on/off but to no avail, the boar having already disappeared in the shrubbery.

This post brings things to a head! Taylor, and I both only have objection to the single trigger of any type on rifles used for hunting DANGEROUS GAME!

5seventy clarified the way the inertia single trigger works, saying that both barrels are in fact cocked on opening, and the recoil of the first barrel only re-sets the trigger to the other barrel. The selective type will negate the bump starting the gun for the second shot, still the double trigger is quicker, and less problematic.

Even though you reacted very quickly if that boar had been a cape buffalo, or lion closing on you fast that very quick reaction may have not been fast enough, considering it wasn’t for getting a shot on the boar! Here is where the simple changing of triggers with a misfire with double triggers would IMO, make a considerable difference in the possible outcome!

The fact that all three of your rifles have SELECTORS is a plus if you have a single trigger on a double rifle.

That is why Taylor recommended, if one wants a single trigger, to have the selector type! In the case of a misfire on the first barrel you simply do not know if the misfire is just a dud, or if the striker or a spring has broken on that side.

If it is just a dud and you don’t select the other barrel before opening the rifle the next trigger pull will be the barrel that misfired and will fire that barrel on the re-loaded chamber.

However if a striker or spring broke that side will not fire again, and you must pull the trigger a second time to get off a shot but only if the trigger is a mechanical one. If you DID select the other barrel before opening when closed the other barrel will fire on the first pull. The fact that a misfire on the first shot tends to befuddle the shooter breaking his train of thought, especially when facing a mad lion of buffalo and he will normally loose valuable time when milliseconds are so valuable before taking action.

That also applies to breaking the rifle to re-load one barrel that has been fired, but not enough to finish the re-load and the rifle closed the empty barrel will be re-set, and the first pull of the trigger will fall on an empty chamber, unless before opening to reload the fired barrel the selector is switched to the loaded barrel.

Just as the deal with your wild boar, that simply got away, a lion of buffalo may bring the shooter a very close encounter of the worse kind.

IMO, even though the single trigger seems very simple and TIME SAVING, if anything goes wrong it requires a lot more time to get into action, for the average shooter, than just changing triggers on a double trigger double rifle.

Of course the choice belongs to the individual using the rifle, but as I said earlier there is a reason the most double rifle hunters of dangerous game select double triggers, manual safeties and side by side barrels! That is also the reason most makers of big bore double rifles install single triggers and auto safeties as optional on customer request at extra cost.

I have no problem going from double triggers to single triggers, or vice-versa! Will doesn’t like double triggers and down grades them, simply because he can’t or will not learn to use them properly. In his case the single trigger is they way to go if he is using a double rifle, but he is simply not a double rifle person, and will gladly tell you he isn’t. Like 5seventy, and most other double rifle hunters of dangerous game, I prefer double triggers. I also prefer double triggers, on any double rifle, but can live with a single trigger on small bore deer/elk/moose double rifles.

I love single selective triggers on my bird double guns, but prefer the selector button on the trigger rather than on the safety. I like them because where I hunt birds we have a combination of birds with seasons overlapping. That said I have never heard of a hunter being mauled by a dove, or pheasant so the single trigger is a non-issue in that respect.

.......................I say use what every you want but be aware of the draw-backs involved with that choice!

..............................

quote:

Originally posted by Andre Mertens:
MacD37 has it right.

Andre, I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

Mac said that his 9.3x74R O/U (Winchester Grand European) DR has a mechanical trigger.
That's wrong, those rifles all have an inertia trigger.

Mac said that inertia triggers cannot be made selective.
That too is wrong. Inertia trigger systems can be and often are made selective.

Mac said that inertia triggers use recoil to cock the second barrel.
That is also wrong. Inertia trigger guns cock both barrels mechanically when the gun is broken open. Recoil from firing the first barrel is only used to shift the trigger to the second sear.

Mac,
I totally agree that 2 triggers are the best way to go on any double rifle, and especially so for dangerous game.

my zoli 450400 is a double and one of the 9.3x74R'S IS A SINGLE THE SINGLE IS FASTER your finger does not have to re-position, imo, but really its what you practice with thats what makes you fast and accurate, and a well maintained firearm will be reliable,but the purest will always sat two like trout fishing you can catch them on flies and it looks pretty but a worm will put them in a skillet also

Just to stir the pot a little bit. Most here who are expounding the virtues of two triggers and their value in a tight spot seem to have no compunctions about following a PH into the thick stuff after dangerous game when he is armed in most cases with a low end bolt gun, i.e. Ruger or CZ. The PH makes his living with his rifle in a tight spot and has no doubts about the reliability
of his cheap bolt gun and yet the reliability of a single trigger double gun for a visiting hunter is heresy. Get real. I have killed a few elephants with a double .475#2 but have killed a lot more with a M70 .458. I have also owned a number of nice dbl. rifles, all with two triggers but I would not hesitate one second to do all of my dangerous game hunting with a WR fitted with a single trigger. My bespoke WR .500 had double triggers but only because I was not willing to pay the substantial difference for a single trigger. James Sutherland had more experience than all of us combined and the Westley with single trigger was his choice, he said he never had an issue with it.

quote:

Originally posted by bwananelson:
my zoli 450400 is a double and one of the 9.3x74R'S IS A SINGLE THE SINGLE IS FASTER your finger does not have to re-position , imo, but really its what you practice with thats what makes you fast and accurate, and a well maintained firearm will be reliable,but the purest will always sat two like trout fishing you can catch them on flies and it looks pretty but a worm will put them in a skillet also

Yea, well, I wouldn't want to bet money on that one my friend!

Safariman1, as you surly know far more PHs in Africa use CRF Mauser actioned rifles, mod 70, CZ, or Brno bolt rifles, which are all good rifles, and there is nothing wrong with any of them if kept in good working order. And then there are some even carry mod 700 Remington and other wally world push feed assembly line plumber quality bolt rifles.

They use what is available to them. The thing most have in common is they can shoot their rifles well when the need arises! I would bet, however, almost all of them would be carrying 470NE or 500NE double rifles while hunting Ele, buff or lion if they could. I have no problem following my PH into the weeds on a blood spoor no matter what rifle he is carrying. He knows his life is on the line with his rifle choice, and I will be carrying a double 470NE because I know that my life and his may depend on my rifle, his as well, if the crap hits the fan!

There is a large difference in the price and quality between even working double rifles and working bolt rifles. That alone is reason enough for his choice but combined with the gun laws in Africa could be a factor in the rifles most PHs carry.

None of the above has anything to do with the draw-backs of a single trigger in a double rifle when something goes wrong in the rifle that directly effects how one must work the rifle so it can be kept in the game till the emergency is over! In that light I believe the double rifle with two triggers makes the double rifle two completely independent single shot rifles on the same stock. The single trigger is the one thing that can alter that fact! A double with two triggers can be made into a working single shot very quickly by simply pulling only the trigger that fires the still working barrel, and only re-loading that barrel till you get out of trouble! I see absolutely nothing wrong with that concept.

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Originally posted by Safariman1:
Just to stir the pot a little bit. Most here who are expounding the virtues of two triggers and their value in a tight spot seem to have no compunctions about following a PH into the thick stuff after dangerous game when he is armed in most cases with a low end bolt gun, i.e. Ruger or CZ. The PH makes his living with his rifle in a tight spot and has no doubts about the reliability of his cheap bolt gun and yet the reliability of a single trigger double gun for a visiting hunter is heresy . Get real. I have killed a few elephants with a double .475#2 but have killed a lot more with a M70 .458. I have also owned a number of nice dbl. rifles, all with two triggers but I would not hesitate one second to do all of my dangerous game hunting with a WR fitted with a single trigger. My bespoke WR .500 had double triggers but only because I was not willing to pay the substantial difference for a single trigger. James Sutherland had more experience than all of us combined and the Westley with single trigger was his choice, he said he never had an issue with it.

Yeah, well, I don't know about the highlighted part of your statement either. I've hunted with a couple of PH's that HAVE expressed quite a bit of concern over the reliability of their bolt guns. You'll notice Buzz Charlton is using a Heym double 500NE these days. Viewing his 3 DVDs, you'll notice the old Ruger RSM 416 Rigby he had gave him an issue or two on occasion. Hence the switch to a double, and one with two proper triggers to boot. But I have had a couple of other PHs mention the desire to move into a double as soon as funds allow due to the possibility of a jam or other malfunction. Yea, most times, it's a moot point. But one malfunction at the wrong time can have pretty serious repercussions. I've told this story before, but on my first safari in 2006, I had a trigger issue with a rifle I had just shot a lion and hippo with a couple of days prior to getting a chance on a bull buff. At about 35 or 40 yards, he walked into a clearing and with the same rifle used on the lion and hippo, I attempted to fire while lined up on his shoulder. The trigger went all the way to the back of the trigger guard without effect. The trigger had completely disconnected and wouldn't fire the rifle. A CZ-550 in 416 Rigby by the way. So much for the reliability of low end bolt gun triggers in Rugers or CZs! It was at that point that I decided I was a double rifle kind of guy for DG.

Whoa! I guess I didn't make the point that I was trying to make. Many PH's, due to cost constraints use what may be considered "low end bolt guns", they may want a double but have a more modest rifle because that is what they have. Todd, as your experience shows, these guns can be less than reliable and yet, they are used on a daily basis by men doing their jobs, working as PH's and all that entails. We are not hearing or reading of these same PH's losing their lives or their client's lives due to firearm failure. I quite frankly fail to see an issue with a single trigger double rifle being a liability for a sport hunter who may hunt dangerous game a half a dozen times in his life, if he is lucky enough to have that opportunity. There is a far greater chance of being struck by lightning or stepping on a Mamba than there is of having a single trigger failure with a good quality dbl. gun. Another small point, how often have you heard of someone "strumming" the triggers and doubling the gun, the gun may still function, but it is also empty, not a good situation if whatever one is hunting is all over you.