Hello, I am new to this Forum and to DR's. Thank you very much for taking the time to read my questions and i very much appreciate any and all advise.
I am looking to get into hunting with DR's and i am very confused about the different makes of DR's. I want to buy a fairly cheap DR to make sure i love it (i am sure i will). I have been reading as much as i can about the DR's. I am 50 Y/O and left eye dominant so i shoot lefty, (lucky me). I have been looking at used Heym, Merkel, Kreigoff, and California Rigby's. Seems as if California Rigby is a very bad word but the guns look great to me, (what do i know?)??
The only guns (on the cheaper side yet still expensive to me) that i found to have true left hand trigger configuration and a left hand stock are the newer Kreigoff and Heym. That said, it seems i may be going to a DR with right hand trigger configuration and try to make the stock somewhat left handed without restocking the gun. The first couple of questions that i have are as follows:

1)Does it matter much if i shoot and or hunt Left Handed with a right Handed Trigger Configuration or is that bad practice??

2)I narrowed my search down to Merkel, Ca Rigby and Kreigoff. All in 470 and the only true left hand is the Kreigoff, the Merkel and Ca Rigby are both Right hand.

Again, Thank you very much for taking the time to read and help

Russ

Russ:
As in most everything in life, one gets what one pays for.

It would help to know your budget. Are your choices only due to budget?

May I suggest an older double with a neutral cast to the stock?

If the stock is neutral, I'm sure a gun smith could alter the triggers for left handed shooters. Or the possiblity of a single trigger double…? But probably not a choice in many older doubles except Westley--and at a premium.

Most shoot doubles right barrel/front trigger first. I have been shooting the left/rerar first for 20 years. It matters not, but get the trigger to fit a left slant.

MAC and others and fill out the many areas I left blank.

Merkel is the best of the three in my opinion.

Good luck and I will look forward to reading more posts here.
Cal

To answer your question - yes - it matters.

Talk to Jerome at Verney- Carron. He will build you a custom fit rifle that meets your every need, and it will cost you the same as an off the rack Krieghoff or Heym.

New Heym's ordered from Heym USA are made to individual measurements,
In true left or right hand stock and trigger configurations,
If you have not already, you might contact Chris @
https://www.heymusa.com/

(or you can have built ,straight stock ,neutral, such as my personal rifles)


Two used left hand Heym's for sale (not mine) (not Chris')

https://www.gatguns.com/compon...hrase=all&Itemid=129

Russ...
I am right handed but, left eye dominate and have been shooting long guns from the left side since day one.
For me a true left handed double gun would be confusing as I am use to a right handed top lever after years of shooting shotguns both as a competitor and in the field. I would not want a DG top lever different from all the rest if I found myself in a tight corner.
I do though have the triggers turned neutral or slightly to the left, this is an easy do by any competent gunsmith.
I would rather a stock have cast on for my measurements but can live with neutral. Do you need a cheek piece? Don't think so.
Not needing a left handed top lever, if I found a good clean "Right Handed Double" with a workable LOP, drop and neutral cast that took my breath away it would come home with me. A trip to the gunsmith would fix triggers and perhaps put cast in the stock to my liking.
Russ looking and doing the research is half the fun.
Good luck keep us updated

Welcome Russel!

Clan colla, it appears those 2 heym lefties are right trigger configuration.


Since he brought up the Cali Rigby I'm curious as to the details of this rifle. I remember hearing they use a Merkel action and are a bit heavier. Could someone give us a brief history of the Cali Rigby and details of the manufacturing of this rifle. Just Curious.

Budget budget budget. How much do you want to spend? And second off, what do you plan on using the rifle for? Hunting? Big or dangerous game? Or do you just want a nice double?

If you live close to Tennessee give me a shout and you can swing by and shoot any of mine as they are all left handed. My Searcy 450 NE is up for sale as well.

Russell, there are 2 LH Heym rifles on Gun Broker that are listed at $12,500, but have been there for some time. I'd jump on one of those if I were a lefty. Send him a message (Ask Seller a Question) asking what he'd take for it.

Mississippian,
The pictures do appear to have the right hand trigger configuration
Though I can not see if they are "bent right" or are neutral

Biebs,
same guns as I posted

The DR price range is not only due to budget, actually it is more due to fear of the unknown and finding out if I want to continue with DR as i am very new. I just dont want to pay alot for a double and realize i wont use it then be stuck with an expensive piece of art for my safe, Haha. Also, my intention with the DR is to shoot this gun as much as possible working up to reloading and hunting in the future. I am open to all suggestions.

Thank you for the Heym listings on GB, they are not a bad price from what i understand. Things I have been reading about Heym and the failures while on safari are starting to scar me.

Thank you for suggesting Jerome. I am going to try and find him.

Does anyone know if there are any good functional Ca Rigby's that arent built on shotgun recievers with sleeved barrels? After the problem with Ca Rigby was identified, was it resolved or did they go out of business?

Thank you again

Yes, I plan to hunt Dangerous Game

Stock fit makes such a huge difference with big bore rifles generally and doubles in particular. I would be reluctant if I was left handed to buy a right handed rifle and hope for the best. Stock fit can even be an issue when you buy a right handed rifle if you are right handed, it has got to be even more of an issue with someone that is left handed is buying a right handed rifle.

Insofar as trigger and top lever configuration are concerned, I think the point above about whether you shoot other doubles (shotguns) and how they are configured is an excellent point. If this would be your first double, configuration should not be an issue. On the other hand, if you have and shoot other right handed doubles, switching over could be a recipe for problems with muscle memory.

Bottom line, you say you have narrowed your choice to Krieghoff, Merkel and CA Rigby, and the Krieghoff is the only true lefty. I would be inclined to stick with the Krieghoff. In my view Krieghoff does a good job with stock design today. My .500 K gun probably has "felt recoil" less than any other .500 I have shot. Of course, if you expanded your search, a true left handed Heym and VC would be worth considering too.

Russell, The Heyms are probably $4,000 under what they would sell for if RH...great deal.

As to Rigby CA, they are long gone, and their resale value has tanked. They were rebarreled Merkel shotgun actions...you can do better.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Russel S Bleiler:
The DR price range is not only due to budget, actually it is more due to fear of the unknown and finding out if I want to continue with DR as i am very new. I just dont want to pay alot for a double and realize i wont use it then be stuck with an expensive piece of art for my safe, Haha. Also, my intention with the DR is to shoot this gun as much as possible working up to reloading and hunting in the future. I am open to all suggestions.
Having owned new and used DR's. In both expensive "art-type" and plain. How you use them is truly a personal choice.

Thank you for the Heym listings on GB, they are not a bad price from what i understand. Things I have been reading about Heym and the failures while on safari are starting to scar me.
Could you elaborate on the failures? I am aware of only one or two on older guns, none on the recent ones.

Thank you for suggesting Jerome. I am going to try and find him.

Does anyone know if there are any good functional Ca Rigby's that arent built on shotgun recievers with sleeved barrels? After the problem with Ca Rigby was identified, was it resolved or did they go out of business?
Cali Rigby filed bankruptcy several years back. I agree with Bieb's assessment on that purchase.

Thank you again
[Quote]

As metioned above, I now own straight stocked (no cheek piece)guns ,so that I may use them left and my sons may use them right.

I chose to leave the triggers right hand configuration , without a right hand bend.
A compromise ,no doubt, but one that allows the gun to be sold later ,with the trigger bent right if desired.

Pretty short notice, but the SCI convention next week in Las Vegas would be a good place to see all the double rifles currently available.

I don't think you can go wrong if you find a good deal on a Merkel, Krieghoff, VC, Searcy, Chapuis, Heym etc. And occasionally there are good deals to be found on an old English or Continental rifle.

Regarding the Cali Rigby rifles, well that's a long story of deception, bankruptcy, stiffing creditors, etc. As far as I know all of the double rifles were built on Merkel shotgun actions with sleeved barrels installed. Yes, the rifles usually do look good because the wood and engraving was often of high quality. The term lipstick on a pig comes to mind.

Good luck, getting a double and using it will be a great adventure.

Location?
There is a lefty double by Butch Searcy for sale at Prophet River Firearms in Alberta.
Prophet River (Clay is the owner)is a major importer of guns into Canada for individuals, but I can't say if he can export!
That Searcy double (I believe it is in .500 N.E) is listed at 8500.00 cdn, or about 6375.00 U.S..Looks to be in great condition, but it's been killing me that it is set up for a left hand shooter.

Great price....that would be worth looking into. I had Ralf Martini import a Hartmann & Weiss for me several years ago....I think it was only $225 or so.

When Cal Rigby went under, Masuer/Blaser bought the intellectual property and trade marks. They then moved production to England. The Rigby as owned by Masuer/Blaser starts off with a field grade/more production bolt rifle on actions, I think barreled actions, from Masuer. In London they are stocked and finished for sale.

London Rigby has an escalating class of Masuer barreled actions that they use to build the more expensive rifles as well. Paul Roberts was again tapped as a technical adviser at the beginning, but I do not know if he remains with the company.

A few years ago, London Rigby began taking orders for new/resurrected Bissle/rising bite action sidelock double rifles. These are very expensive. I believe the quote starts at 80K in pounds (if I am wrong, I am sorry, but I am not wrong by much).

I have only heard of one heym not working, and that was a post on this forum a long time ago now. The poster did not own the rifle, and Mr. Sells set the situation straight. Of course, I am a Heym fan boy, so take that as you will.

I would buy the best rifle my budget would let me; even if that meant saving for another year or two. If you do not like it resale value will be better than with a lesser rifle. People are asking 15K (the new MSRP on Merkerl) and 16-18K for the K-gun. Before, anyone kills me, that was the price every one had the K-Guns listed for at DSC. They sale a lot cheaper barley used. The Heym 88B is built stock to fit, regardless of grade, intercepting sears, cast as you order it, left or right handed as you order it. The new/order price is within spitting distance of the above.
Biebs not to long ago posted left hand older styled Heyms for 12K in the classified section. It was a Gun Broker ad.

I do not think you can go wrong with VC, Heym, Merkel if you can get one within 8K-10K, or K-Gun. K-Guns were going on gun broker and guns international in the 9-12K range without ejectors. With K-Guns and Merkels you are looking at standard stock dimensions, right hand triggers/barrels, one barrel length/contour. I would buy a good clean used one for pennies on the dollar, if I went this route.

The Searcy rifles are hell for stout. And every one agrees, if an issue does develop, he will fix it. Good buy if you want it.

The Heym vs. VC has really turned into something. With both firms fighting to make their rifles better/more desirable. The real winner has been the consumer.

There are vintage 450/400's that can be had in the 8K range that you could have restocked for left hand shooting, and still be in a good price range. There is one advertised in Shooting Classics. It is a Boswell. I have the guys email at home. I am seeing them at some of the bigger gun shows as well in Louisville every year.

Chapuis can be found in this price range 8K-12K in the 375 to 450/400 class as well. People seem to like them.

I hope this helps. It is your money and it is your choice. I do not think you can go wrong. I do think if at all possible you will want to handle and shoot a few samples of each you are considering.

I suggest you talk to a gun builder directly and tell him what you want detail for detail.I would call Butch Searcy.Forget about buying used unless you feel like rolling the dice.

I am left handed/left eye dominant. I was in the same place as you not too long ago. I went to DSC expo and talked to everybody. Picked up and shouldered a lot of rifles and got a wealth of info from most of the vendors. I again, like you, was basically worried I would have rather expensive gun I may or may not like. Take what you read (including this very post) with a grain of salt. Go and handle the guns.
After DSC, I had the confidence in Krieghoff. I commissioned a K gun in .470 with left hand stock/triggers. I couldn't be happier. Used it on buff and ele this last summer with good results. Life is short, go get one and get to using it.

Fellow lefty here. I have both versions in double rifles. The one lefty is a restock made to fit. Cost around $1500 for wood and work. They're all fun to shoot and I can put em in the boiler room. Having both stocks will help with a resale. And nothing fits like a custom. Been eying those heyms myself. Jump in

quote:

Originally posted by Russel S Bleiler:
The DR price range is not only due to budget, actually it is more due to fear of the unknown and finding out if I want to continue with DR as i am very new. I just dont want to pay alot for a double and realize i wont use it then be stuck with an expensive piece of art for my safe, Haha. Also, my intention with the DR is to shoot this gun as much as possible working up to reloading and hunting in the future. I am open to all suggestions.

Hello Russel S Bleiler,

You might want to talk with Aaron Little.

A.M. Little Bespoke Gunmakers LLC
682-554-0044
Michael08TDK@yahoo.com

Aaron may have several options available to build you something "Custom" at an "affordable" price. That way you could always get your money back if things don't work out.

See this post for an example of what Aaron can do. Drop me a PM if you want more detail.

Buck

http://forums.accuratereloadin...0101804/m/9561066812

Mr. Beiler, The guys here will help you all they can, and I have read all the advice given so far, and that shows you that you have several options.

IMO, the first double rifle should be one that is a true left hand double, but barring that, if you find a good clean used field grade right hand double with a neutral stock, the triggers can be made to work by a good gun smith, and the suggestion of Aaron Little is a good one for that purpose. He also may have something in his shop that will fit your needs at the moment.

There are two other things you might think about. #One is most over/under double rifles come with single triggers, and #two, sometimes you can find a side by side with a single trigger as well. There is another thing with an O/U, most are set up for scope mounting as well, and almost all have ejectors.

I personally do not like single triggers on a double rifle, but all single triggers are not the same. There is the mechanical trigger, which, if you get a miss-fire, or dud for the first shot the trigger automatically re-sets to the other barrel. Then you have the type that the second shot depends on the recoil of the first shot to cock the second barrel. That one you want to leave in the store. Even the mechanical needs to have a manual selector button so you can select the barrel you want to shoot first. This selector feature is a safety that allows you to turn your double into a working single shot if something in one barrel puts it out of order. The good barrel can be selected so that when opened for any reason, the good barrel will be fired on the first pull of the trigger after closing every time it is reloaded. Without the selector the right barrel on a S/S, and bottom barrel on an O/U is the one that fires, or tries to, after opening the rifle. If the problem is the bottom barrel on an O/U, or the right barrel on the S/S is the out of serviced barrel, with a non-selective single trigger will have to be pull twice for every shot there after.

Like most here I’m not fond of O/U doubles, and less fond of single triggers, but when one has a disability that dictates that sacrifices be made, that is a choice that may well be the best road to take. A true left hand S/S double will be your best choice, and on many you can buy a left had double cheaper that you would a right hand double on the used market because they remain dead stock with far less people who need them.

Hope any of this helps, but I must warn you, once the double rifle bug bites you will be hooked on them for the rest of your life.

…………………….Good luck!

I would respectfully disagree with Mac's take on inertia single triggers.

The original premise of the double trigger on a SXS rifle was just a manufacturing carry over from the double shotgun although of course this configuration in a DG rifle has the advantage in that there are two separate locks, if one fails or a cartridge misfires then there is a second chance instantly available but only IF the shooter can quickly get over the shock of a misfire. Fortunately most shooters today never experience a misfire in the field therefore they will not be practiced or ready to respond quickly if they do, so I would bet money that the second barrel and second lock will not be of advantage for many in the event of a close charge.

Of course much anecdotal evidence is used of how many of the African hunters of old would not have lived their natural lives out if it were not for the doubles they used (of course many used bolt actions anyway, another story). This may well be all good and true but as we are often reminded when debating the virtues or failings of these old hunters, today's hunter is operating under completely different circumstances. So right we are, our ammunition, reloads or factory, is so much more reliable with misfires extremely rare and the metal used in modern guns is so much better with more reliable firing pins and springs, again misfires are rare. Cal may disagree and say his fine old English guns are every bit as good and I won't argue with that.

So while the double trigger double barrel DG gun may have the potential advantage in terms of mechanical reliability of a second shot (not arguing the advantages of speed for a second shot), this potential is so rarely if ever needed today.

Coming back to the inertia single trigger on an O/U in particular. If made by a reputable manufacturer the inertia single trigger will be as mechanically reliable as any bolt action and likely more reliable than any double trigger set up. I have mentioned before that my Miroku O/U with an inertia single trigger (has barrel selector) is absolutely superbly and simply built inside and has a trigger that breaks like glass so much so that when using a 22 Win Mag insert barrel the gun would group minute of rabbit chest at 50m using the middle and front bead to sight.

BTW I am a lefty and have used some doubles and other multibarrel configurations while hunting in Germany. Have used my Miroku shotgun for decades shooting thousands of rounds on game and target and have never felt I needed a left handed gun or stock. I have always got good tallies of whatever I was shooting. I also use right handed bolt actions and can shoot as good as the next.

As Pondoro Taylor might have said, I would gladly see out my days with an O/U rifle and single inertia trigger if I could get one made by Miroku and would bet my life that I would come through any African hunt unscathed.

Yes Browning did make some O/U rifles, I never handled one and don't really need one.

quote:

As Pondoro Taylor might have said, I would gladly see out my days with an O/U rifle and single inertia trigger if I could get one made by Miroku and would bet my life that I would come through any African hunt unscathed.

. . . well played!

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
I would respectfully disagree with Mac's take on inertia single triggers.

As Pondoro Taylor might have said, I would gladly see out my days with an O/U rifle and single inertia trigger if I could get one made by Miroku and would bet my life that I would come through any African hunt unscathed.

Yes Browning did make some O/U rifles, I never handled one and don't really need one.

......Difference of opinion noted!

However if the first shot is a dud during a close charge, there is no recoil to re-set the trigger and one doesn't have time to slam the butt against your other hand to re-set an inertia trigger. The selective mechanical single trigger is the only one I would trust on a dangerous game rifle! I'm going to have to agree with Taylor on this one!

quote:

by Taylor page 325 in AFRICAN RIFLES AND CARTRIDGES;

The advantages claimed for having only one trigger instead of two on a DB weapon are so well known now that that it is necessary to go into here. Generally speaking, I would not recommend a beginner to use them because if you have one DB weapon so fitted, then
You must have all your DB guns and rifles similarly fitted. If you were only shooting non-dangerous game then it wouldn’t matter how many triggers you had but when you are close to dangerous beasts you don’t want to be having to remember things you might very easily forget.
You see, it would be absolutely essential that the mechanism should be of the selective variety, so that you could fire either barrel first, and you would have to remember to shift whatever mechanism there was after firing the right barrel before you could dare to open the breech for the purpose of reloading without firing the left barrel. If you had forgotten to shift whatever type of slide or other control there was in the selective mechanism before opening the breech (not having time to reload the right barrel) then you would find yourself snapping the lock of the empty right barrel when endeavoring to stop the charge, because opening the breech re-sets the mechanism of the single trigger device.
Besides, it is very, very seldom that you are called upon to fire so quickly that you couldn’t take the shot with two triggers.

...................................................................
..................................................................Mac

Any thoughts on the Westley Richards single trigger??
Im not in the market for one yet but i have read that the WR single trigger is as good as a double trigger.
Any thoughts

quote:

Originally posted by Russel S Bleiler:
Any thoughts on the Westley Richards single trigger??
Im not in the market for one yet but i have read that the WR single trigger is as good as a double trigger.
Any thoughts

Westley Richards is one of my favorite double rifle makers, and if I had to have a single trigger on a dangerous game rifle it would likely be a W/R mechanical selective trigger. However I must say if I had any choice all my dangerous game doubles would, and do have double triggers. The fact remains that any single trigger still has the drawbacks that comes with the best of them.

The reason that makes perfect sense to me is the problem that started this thread a problem with a right handed person with a left master eye.

My youngest son is right handed and came fitted with a left master eye. However he shoots all my right handed double trigger rifles from the left shoulder, and shoots like a pro. I too, have developed Macular degeneration in my right eye and are having a little trouble seeing properly, but I simply cannot learn to shoot from the left shoulder.

I have had to mount a one power scope with a lighted retical so I can shoot with both eyes open since I can still see the illuminated apex with my right eye, and by shooting with both eyes open the binocular effect lets me still shoot right handed. I have no idea how long that will be the result, but at age 80 it won't matter long anyway.
....................................................................

I'm right handed and left eye dominant. I simply wink when ready to shoot. No way I'm going to relearn shooting left handed.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
I'm right handed and left eye dominant. I simply wink when ready to shoot. No way I'm going to relearn shooting left handed.

Some us with the same condition shoot left handed cause we don't want to be in the Bieber league of accuracy - minute of barn door

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Russel S Bleiler:
Any thoughts on the Westley Richards single trigger??
Im not in the market for one yet but i have read that the WR single trigger is as good as a double trigger.
Any thoughts

Westley Richards is one of my favorite double rifle makers, and if I had to have a single trigger on a dangerous game rifle it would likely be a W/R mechanical selective trigger. However I must say if I had any choice all my dangerous game doubles would, and do have double triggers. The fact remains that any single trigger still has the drawbacks that comes with the best of them.

The reason that makes perfect sense to me is the problem that started this thread a problem with a right handed person with a left master eye.

My youngest son is right handed and came fitted with a left master eye. However he shoots all my right handed double trigger rifles from the left shoulder, and shoots like a pro. I too, have developed Macular degeneration in my right eye and are having a little trouble seeing properly, but I simply cannot learn to shoot from the left shoulder.

I have had to mount a one power scope with a lighted retical so I can shoot with both eyes open since I can still see the illuminated apex with my right eye, and by shooting with both eyes open the binocular effect lets me still shoot right handed. I have no idea how long that will be the result, but at age 80 it won't matter long anyway.
....................................................................

Mac- you have a good attitude, and here is hoping at 37 my attitude improves with old age. Between you and Atkinson and Grenidier you guys have a lot of information that is lost among my age group and under. LHeym and Aaron little excluded.

Keep up the good work fellas! Some of us are learning a lot on this forum.

Colin

And dpcd and cal too, among the other double guru's that I didn't mention.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
I would respectfully disagree with Mac's take on inertia single triggers.

As Pondoro Taylor might have said, I would gladly see out my days with an O/U rifle and single inertia trigger if I could get one made by Miroku and would bet my life that I would come through any African hunt unscathed.

Yes Browning did make some O/U rifles, I never handled one and don't really need one.

......Difference of opinion noted!

However if the first shot is a dud during a close charge, there is no recoil to re-set the trigger and one doesn't have time to slam the butt against your other hand to re-set an inertia trigger. The selective mechanical single trigger is the only one I would trust on a dangerous game rifle! I'm going to have to agree with Taylor on this one!

...................................................................
..................................................................Mac

The fact that a misfire may be of concern if facing dangerous doesn't concern hunters shooting dangerous game who use bolt actions (the majority that go to Africa today) where a misfire requires a complete opening of the action to feed a fresh cartridge in. Not many would risk just a re-cock and second attempt at firing the cartridge which suffered a misfire.

You yourself Mac proffered the OP the consideration of a single trigger double rifle to at least get around the right handed set up of double triggers. Albeit you stated your preference for a mechanical setting single trigger rather than inertia.

Banging the recoil pad with the hand after a misfire would be far in a way quicker than reloading a bolt gun or even probably attempting to select the other barrel which usually entails taking the slide back to safe, across to the other barrel and then safety off again. Setting the second barrel as in the first instance sees the gun staying closed, no change to the combined safety selector slide and no potential to drop cartridges out of the chambers so the gun can be held at any angle and I assure you this method is very quick. I do it all the time when uncocking my O/U on snap caps before storage.

The point I was making is that modern weapons from a reputable manufacturer just do not suffer the mechanical breakdowns due to broken pins, springs etc., and likewise ammo is so much more reliable. Hell ask any clay target shooter who would put more rounds downrange in a few months than a DG shooter would do in a lifetime about the need for reliability and the reliability they get today for their chosen sport.

While I generally agree that Taylor has a lot of good and relevant advice for even the modern shooter we have to accept that in his day the firearms, and probably more importantly the ammunition, just didn't have the reliability that we have today. The sidelock weapon was so valued because it could be fixed easily in the field. Taylor spoke of guns being used with nails for firing pins and that when you broke a pin or spring at least you still had one barrel that worked with a double. I'm sure he had experienced this first hand on probably more than a few occasions.

If the OP eliminates inertia triggers from his consideration for a left handed weapon then he is going to really cut down the field of opportunity for absolutely no valid reason.

Oh by the way are there not quite a few discussions on this forum about double discharges with double trigger guns with some reverting to pulling the rear trigger first to try and avoid this happening, too bad if two buffalo charge, sheeit

quote:

Originally posted by Russel S Bleiler:
Hello, I am new to this Forum and to DR's. Thank you very much for taking the time to read my questions and i very much appreciate any and all advise.
I am looking to get into hunting with DR's and i am very confused about the different makes of DR's. I want to buy a fairly cheap DR to make sure i love it (i am sure i will). I have been reading as much as i can about the DR's. I am 50 Y/O and left eye dominant so i shoot lefty, (lucky me). I have been looking at used Heym, Merkel, Kreigoff, and California Rigby's. Seems as if California Rigby is a very bad word but the guns look great to me, (what do i know?)??
The only guns (on the cheaper side yet still expensive to me) that i found to have true left hand trigger configuration and a left hand stock are the newer Kreigoff and Heym. That said, it seems i may be going to a DR with right hand trigger configuration and try to make the stock somewhat left handed without restocking the gun. The first couple of questions that i have are as follows:

1)Does it matter much if i shoot and or hunt Left Handed with a right Handed Trigger Configuration or is that bad practice??

2)I narrowed my search down to Merkel, Ca Rigby and Kreigoff. All in 470 and the only true left hand is the Kreigoff, the Merkel and Ca Rigby are both Right hand.

Again, Thank you very much for taking the time to read and help

Russ

Don't buy a left handed gun - you will have to sell it to a left handed person.

By a neutral stock if possible and if you are getting one custom built I would still get it neutral.

The only double rifle I regret not buying was a right handed over under beretta in 458 win. the beretta gallery in NYC had it for $25k and they were switching models or something and they wanted it gone. They marked it down to $5k. I had not hunted Africa and knew little about big bore guns. I also had bought a tikka and was under bloomberg's 90 day wait period. I went and played with gun but never bought it cause it was right handed and I was left handed. The guy with the Italian restaurant across the street on Madison Avenue bought it as a home decoration.

Ed Anderson the gunsmith told me he could easily have made the stock neutral.

Mike

Collin:

Thanks for the mention. I appreciate it. I would like to clarify for those who are new or newer that I do not belong in the same block as Aaron Little. It is a diservice to Aaron Little. At best, I try to be a good student and encyclopedia.

Aaron Little is a true craftsman and a working professional who delivers in the art of riflemaking. One can be a craftsman/artisan and not be able to deliver on a professional level.

Aaron Little by all accounts does both. I should have mentioned him as an option.
I did not but cause he was not silicated in the OP. Luckily, Mr. Stix did.

For the record, Mr. Stix is a client of
Aaron Little. Aaron built him a 700 HH. Mr. Stix shared the rifle with us.
Thread is in this section somewhere. Nobody could complain with the targets.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
I'm right handed and left eye dominant. I simply wink when ready to shoot. No way I'm going to relearn shooting left handed.

understood,
I had little to no choice,to go to the left shoulder (still strongly right eye dominant),
it has been an interesting transition (8yrs now),
as my eyes degrade the Doctor Optic (450) and the Swaro (375Fl) are most definitely my friends.

The neutral stock and triggers have not been any issue,
then again, I have only worked with them in my new 'sinister' configuration,
though many of my previous (older) DR guns were straight stocked ,albeit with Right Hand triggers.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
I would respectfully disagree with Mac's take on inertia single triggers.

As Pondoro Taylor might have said, I would gladly see out my days with an O/U rifle and single inertia trigger if I could get one made by Miroku and would bet my life that I would come through any African hunt unscathed.

Yes Browning did make some O/U rifles, I never handled one and don't really need one.

......Difference of opinion noted!

However if the first shot is a dud during a close charge, there is no recoil to re-set the trigger and one doesn't have time to slam the butt against your other hand to re-set an inertia trigger. The selective mechanical single trigger is the only one I would trust on a dangerous game rifle! I'm going to have to agree with Taylor on this one!

...................................................................
..................................................................Mac

The fact that a misfire may be of concern if facing dangerous doesn't concern hunters shooting dangerous game who use bolt actions (the majority that go to Africa today) where a misfire requires a complete opening of the action to feed a fresh cartridge in. Not many would risk just a re-cock and second attempt at firing the cartridge which suffered a misfire.

You yourself Mac proffered the OP the consideration of a single trigger double rifle to at least get around the right handed set up of double triggers. Albeit you stated your preference for a mechanical setting single trigger rather than inertia.

Banging the recoil pad with the hand after a misfire would be far in a way quicker than reloading a bolt gun or even probably attempting to select the other barrel which usually entails taking the slide back to safe, across to the other barrel and then safety off again. Setting the second barrel as in the first instance sees the gun staying closed, no change to the combined safety selector slide and no potential to drop cartridges out of the chambers so the gun can be held at any angle and I assure you this method is very quick. I do it all the time when uncocking my O/U on snap caps before storage.

The point I was making is that modern weapons from a reputable manufacturer just do not suffer the mechanical breakdowns due to broken pins, springs etc., and likewise ammo is so much more reliable. Hell ask any clay target shooter who would put more rounds downrange in a few months than a DG shooter would do in a lifetime about the need for reliability and the reliability they get today for their chosen sport.

While I generally agree that Taylor has a lot of good and relevant advice for even the modern shooter we have to accept that in his day the firearms, and probably more importantly the ammunition, just didn't have the reliability that we have today. The sidelock weapon was so valued because it could be fixed easily in the field. Taylor spoke of guns being used with nails for firing pins and that when you broke a pin or spring at least you still had one barrel that worked with a double. I'm sure he had experienced this first hand on probably more than a few occasions.

If the OP eliminates inertia triggers from his consideration for a left handed weapon then he is going to really cut down the field of opportunity for absolutely no valid reason.

Oh by the way are there not quite a few discussions on this forum about double discharges with double trigger guns with some reverting to pulling the rear trigger first to try and avoid this happening, too bad if two buffalo charge, sheeit

I think you need to read a little more closely. You read what you wanted to think would prove your point, but it didn't!

.....................................................................

Let me try again to clarify what Taylor was saying below!

quote:

by Taylor page 325 in AFRICAN RIFLES AND CARTRIDGES;

The advantages claimed for having only one trigger instead of two on a DB weapon are so well known now that that it is necessary to go into here. Generally speaking, I would not recommend a beginner to use them because if you have one DB weapon so fitted, then
You must have all your DB guns and rifles similarly fitted. If you were only shoot non-dangerous game then it wouldn’t matter how many triggers you had but when you are close to dangerous beasts you don’t want to be having to remember things you might very easily forget.
You see, it would be absolutely essential that the mechanism should be of the selective variety, so that you could fire either barrel first, and you would have to remember to shift whatever mechanism there was after firing the right barrel before you could dare to open the breech for the purpose of reloading without firing the left barrel. If you had forgotten to shift whatever type of slide or other control there was in the selective mechanism before opening the breech (not having time to reload the right barrel) then you would find yourself snapping the lock on the empty of the empty right barrel when endeavoring to stop the charge, because opening the breech re-sets the mechanism of the single trigger device.
Besides, it is very, very seldom that you are called upon to fire so quickly that you couldn’t take the shot with two triggers.

First off as Taylor was saying his and my opinion in this case was that though a single trigger can be problematic, it is especially so with a person who is new to double rifle of any configuration.

What he refers to on switching the selector to the other barrel after it fails to fire before opening after the left barrel is fired is because the old ele hunters fired the right barrel, then broke the rifle to reload the fired barrel so if the Askaris take issue you have both barrels loaded. If that misfire was a dud both barrel will fire after re-loading but if something in the rifle has gone wrong on that misfire barrel, the good barrel is the first one to fire. If the first misfire was ammo problem both barrels will still fire after fresh ammo in loaded, if the rifle is to blame, now you know you have only a working single shot and with the change of selection that barrel will fire every time it is reloaded, possibly getting you out of trouble.

The problem with a single trigger being a inertia is compounded by the fact you have to do something very quickly in a tight spot, because the rifle will not automatically re-set the trigger to the other barrel because of no recoil from the first barrel.

The selective feature in a mechanically shift single trigger is shifted by the pull of the first trigger. IN the problem case above with this trigger, once selected to the good barrel becomes a working single shot that will fire the good barrel first every time it is reloaded and if on the second try the other barrel still doesn't fire you simply use the rifle as a single shot, and only load that barrel every time.

With eagle27's comparing this to a bolt action has no merit at all here. We are not talking about bolt actions, nor are we discussing seasoned double rifle hunters, but folks who are new to double rifles, and nothing that applies to a bolt action has anything to do with a double rifle, from hand-loading to reliability. they are a different as a Buick car and a Piper-Cub airplane.

................................................................Hope this is at least as clear as Mississippi mud!

......................

Like you I am left eye dominant and shoot off my left shoulder.

The first double rifle I ever bought was a 470 William Evans. I had the stock bent to neutral cast and that's it.

12 double rifles later I have learned when I buy a double I'll adjust the lop and cast and haven't needed to do anything else. I never adjusted triggers and never felt I needed too.

After all these rifles, I still have the 470 Evans, great gun.

My advice would be to buy as nice a rifle as you can afford. Find a gunsmith that can properly adjust the stock to fit you and go have fun.

quote:

Originally posted by 470Evans:
Like you I am left eye dominant and shoot off my left shoulder.

The first double rifle I ever bought was a 470 William Evans. I had the stock bent to neutral cast and that's it.

12 double rifles later I have learned when I buy a double I'll adjust the lop and cast and haven't needed to do anything else. I never adjusted triggers and never felt I needed too.

After all these rifles, I still have the 470 Evans, great gun.

My advice would be to buy as nice a rifle as you can afford. Find a gunsmith that can properly adjust the stock to fit you and go have fun.

+1

Excellent advice

There are some great guys that do stock work on high end shotguns. That skills transfers over easily to double rifles.

Mike