quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
Of course not im a lefty my friend as are my doubles so we shall never compete

Yes, well, in that case I'll let you continue dragging your left hand along the ground as you walk.

.

And ill let you partake in your cask of wine and canned gin and tonics in the dry river beds

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
And ill let you partake in your cask of wine and canned gin and tonics in the dry river beds

Excuse me, just how uncouth do you think we are over here ?

Jesus, some people would think we have no class !!! LOL

We at least drink the Cask wine out of a glass


.

Yes where are my manners the red plastic cups my mistake

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Jorge,

Not just arguing with you as I think you are a good'un...but...here is my point.

You can by a Merkel for around $8K or even less.

Merkels are tried and true. They may not be made to fit everyone 'cause they are an off-the-rack-suit so to speak. But the "tailors" (read gunsmiths) did quality work.

They use a tried and true action design...maybe one of the better.

They are regulated properly.

They may be a bit light...but my .500 NE is fine to shoot and I don't really "like" recoil.

Almost everyone...even their critics...will tell you they as a lot are well regulated and generally accurate.

Peterdk tells me they use poor wood...but I bet Sabatti uses the same.

Professionals have used them in the field with good reports.

If bought right...they at least hold their value.

So...the difference between $5K and $7500 (what I gave for mine NIB) seems neglidgable.

So...I "know" I got a good piece of equipment...a no frills sort of gun...but just what I wanted to pack around in the jess.

Besides...mine points for me like a good shotgun.

Lane: appreciate the kind words, but we'll have to agree to diaagree and that is ok. You simply CANNOT buy a new Merkel for under 8K and even used ones are hard to find at the 8k price. Conversely, if you could find a used Merkel for 8K, one could say the same thing about a used Sabbati for close to three, the ratios remain the same. A new Sabbati is 5500 bucks and a new Merkel is 10K and that is the benchmark. My rifle shoots and invite any Merkel or other brand of double to posts target results as I have done so here. No ejection failures, no cracks, no problem. Yes one of my barrels has a slight flat spot, but do a search here and see how many "best" doubles have had issues that have been worse?

Mac, thanks also for your comments, but I just don't agree that I am putting myself in jeopardy going after DG with my Sabbati if it has proven to be a good shooter, with good triggers and well-timed ejectors. If danger was an issue, one could say the same about a one hundred year old British double that anything could break at any time. You know, I just corresponded witha friend of mine who has a lovely Watson Bros 450/400 for sale. I asked him what kind of groups he gets with his and his response was "on a good day 3" but it's really a 4" shooter." Had I said that about my Sabbati, all hell would have broken loose here.

Had my Sabbati turned out to be a lemon (just like we've read here in the past about WRs, Merkels, etc), I would have returned ti and asked for my money back.

I'm done with this stuff. Like said before, if I announced Sabbatis can walk on water, someone would have said "oh it's because they can't swim."

Last year they had a shop in South Florida selling them brand new out the door for 8500 and kreighoffs for 11k so unless they infalted their price that should still hold true even Chapius go for 10k so unless you guys are upgrading these from the favtory or going through the wrong channels I dont know

I should probably keep my fingers off my keyboard...but....
The Sabatti guns had the potential to be good guns. They only needed another 10 or 20% more effort put in them.
Cabelas came along and kept all other importers from convincing Sabatti to build them better. There were in fact a few that were very good...being built and regulated proper, even having intercepting sears by our coaxing.

The actions are on par with Merkel, but the rest of the gun is being thrown together apparently in haste to hurry them to market.
Sabatti, and cabelas, should keep in mind that these guns are potentially being used on Dangerous game, and as such they should start building them with that in mind and Stop trying to make the cheapest pos sxs rifle out there.

Sending emails to Cabelas corporate office would probably help more than anything.

I believe people would spend a little more $ to get a good double.

Shame because they had potential.

quote:

Lane: appreciate the kind words, but we'll have to agree to diaagree and that is ok.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

Mac, thanks also for your comments, but I just don't agree that I am putting myself in jeopardy going after DG with my Sabbati if it has proven to be a good shooter, with good triggers and well-timed ejectors. I'm done with this stuff.

Jeorge, if you will look at the quotes from my post you will see I said, If anyone like Jeorge has one of the Sabattis that shoots properly then keep it! and farther stated that if I could be sure of getting one like your's I would buy one in a heartbeat!

quote:

originally posted by MacD37:

Yes some have come up with good ones, and to those folks I say keep them if they shoot properly<<snip



Jeorge, I'm very glad you got one of the good ones with you being new to double rifles. If you had gotten one of the bad ones it may have turned you off on doubles all together. If I thought I would be lucky enough to get one of the good ones I'd buy one in a heart beat,

Jeorge I see nothing in that to disagree with!

We're square Mac! And hey, I LOVE my Sabbati! and I extend the invite to our Merkel owners to post their targets You take care my friend and thanks for all your advice! jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
and I extend the invite to our Merkel owners to post their targets

We don't need to, as it is not the Merkel that is under scrutiny.

.

quote:

We don't need to, as it is not the Merkel that is under scrutiny.

That's ok, I understand your reticence to post, especially when, Ks, Searcys, Blasers have done so with regularity. I'm sure your Merkel throws a great pattern. Carry on with your agenda. jorge

Yeah 500 why are you so unwilling how many carrier landings do you have under your belt hot shot

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
That's ok, I understand your reticence to post, especially when, Ks, Searcys, Blasers have done so with regularity. I'm sure your Merkel throws a great pattern. Carry on with your agenda. jorge

Jorge

MacD37 said we were restrained. Well, this is not.

I don't have an effing agenda, I call a spade a bloody spade, always have done and always will,
ask anyone on here who has known me for the last 4 or so years.

I don't own 20+ Double rifles, including Merkel's to shoot test targets to put on forums to justify them to some tosser when the Title of the thread is SABATTI's, not MERKEL'S. I'll shoot a test target during load development when I first get a gun to get it shooting then I go out and
kill things with it. I'll shoot a test target when I sell a gun if the person wants one.

We are not judging Merkels we are judging Sabatti's. Now Express Rifle's, others and I got shouted down a few months back when we called a spade a spade and that something wasn't quite right and in some instances - and far more than their should be that has proved correct.

So let's keep the thread on track about what is wrong with Sab's and get the manufacturer to do the right thing by gun purchasers and start making an effing gun that, with the odd exception is going to be 100% fine.

If a one man show like Searcy can do it, then bloody Sabatti should be able to as well.


Express Rifles.
Haven't got any carrier landings to my name but I've taken off in aircraft more times than I have landed in them SF all the way

.

Ahhh yes 500 you know I had to buddy also I'll add like ive said if the 5k gun is so great do all etc why would you get fitted for a VC ? unlike few here who have a broke leg horse in this race my rifles are investment peices im 100% bolt trash as it would be put

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:


I don't have an effing agenda, I call a spade a bloody spade, always have done and always will,
ask anyone on here who has known me for the last 4 or so years.

I don't own 20+ Double rifles, including Merkel's to shoot test targets to put on forums to justify them to some tosser when the Title of the thread is SABATTI's, not MERKEL'S. I'll shoot a test target during load development when I first get a gun to get it shooting then I go out and
kill things with it. I'll shoot a test target when I sell a gun if the person wants one.

We are not judging Merkels we are judging Sabatti's. Now Express Rifle's, others and I got shouted down a few months back when we called a spade a spade and that something wasn't quite right and in some instances - and far more than their should be that has proved correct.

So let's keep the thread on track about what is wrong with Sab's and get the manufacturer to do the right thing by gun purchasers and start making an effing gun that, with the odd exception is going to be 100% fine.

If a one man show like Searcy can do it, then bloody Sabatti should be able to as well.


Express Rifles.
Haven't got any carrier landings to my name but I've taken off in aircraft more times than I have landed in them SF all the way

.

I'm so happy you call a spade a spade, but you've gotten the gist of this thread precisely backwards ( in English it's called "sarcasm" or "tongue in cheek") and my walking on water analogy fits your characterization of Sabbatis to a tee. We get it, you think Sabbati's are garbage and you've made it into a crusade. My hat's off to your dogmatic benevolence, maybe you've saved some idiot other than me ( is that what Tosser means in Australian?) from pissing away 5K on a piece of shit rifle.

Now back on track, people with a HELL of a lot of expertise and credibility with doubles have taken the exact opposite position as yours for starters, but to further get this thread back on track, what is wrong with *MY* Sabbati? After 140 rounds it continues to shoot a hell of a lot better than rifles costing three time as much and by the way, Regarding killing, WTF do you think I'm going to do with mine? (here's a hint): before I go out and kill things, I make sure the rifle works and works well and mine sure meets that requirement. I have a buffalo safari planned for 2013 (my fourth) and I plan to take the Sabbati. Yes I know I'm an idiot. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
Yeah 500 why are you so unwilling how many carrier landings do you have under your belt hot shot

Easy answer to figure out, even with the horrible punctuation...

You would be correct I went to college not the Military to obtain an education sorry

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
You would be correct I went to college not the Military to obtain an education sorry

Wonderful! now we are off track and personal! Obviously it didn't take but BTW, where to you think most military officer's get their education as a pre-requisite for a commission? Here's a hint; it's not just the Naval Academy but I have to tell you, the English classes taught there are a bitch I'm told!

Oh, sorry forgot to answer your question about the VC. Why did I get meaured? well because I can afford one and I have more than one brand of rifle, but more importantly, the relatively minor expense of the entry-level Sabbati afforded me a vehicle for me to find out if I really wanted a double. I've realized that doubles are for me so after much research (you know like I did on the Sabbati) I decided on what is in my opinion the best value double on the market, a VC. How's that?

And you are wrong its a cnc action like the sab basically a properly regulated sab with better wood

I lurked here at AR for quite a bit. Before I joined, I got an idea of the personalities of some of the individuals here. I have noticed that ALOT of the people here are VERY opinionated! Now, there is nothing wrong with being opinionated, but when those opinions lead one to insult other people just because they disagree, well that is just flat wrong.



500N, I have no problem with your opinions, you are entitled to them, and I appreciate the fact that your experience with double rifles vastly exceeds my own.

If you are referring to my thread when you and express rifles got "shouted down"... I had no problem with your "calling a spade a spade", but you and express rifles didn't stop there.

Y'all started to infer, or say right out that any body who bought a Sabatti simply HAD to be a moron... someone who didn't have the good sense to save up an extra 2 or 3 (or 4) thousand dollars and buy a Merkel.


You two weren't "shouted down" because you didn't like Sabattis, some folks just got upset because you two were (in essence) calling alot of people stupid.


YOU had the decency to apologize, and I appreciate that fact very much. I think all the more of you for it.



If you want to talk about getting off topic, then let us discuss your and express rifles's facination with alcohol and the various and sundry implements for consuming it. Which BTW, you two discussed... on a thread titled SABATTI, not WINE or CANNED GIN!



On the whole I have observed that you usually have alot of very helpful and useful information to share, but let's keep this thread "on track" and leave off the personal insults. That way we can objectively examine a given topic and learn from one another.



500N, I respect your opinions, and I am not trying to jump on you here, but...



Best regards,

Nemo.

quote:

not WINE or CANNED GIN!

If you spent time in Australia you would understand what him and I are talking about also little boy why dont you ask Mr.Neving about me who you refer to as Mr.Peter who is a personal friend of mine before you try to bring my credentials up. Now I dont mind admiting where im wrong but by a 17 year old child not happening.

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:

quote:

not WINE or CANNED GIN!

If you spent time in Australia you would understand what him and I are talking about

Nemo

No worries, but if I may have one more thread drift for the sake of keeping standards.


Express Rifles,
Now come on, we must keep the standards low,
it's CASK WINE and CANNED GIN, drunk in the bottom of the dry river bed

.

Nemo, thanks for bringing some civility back to this thread, you are wise beyond your years

There are many ways to tell someone their baby is ugly, and it's not the facts that I took umbrage with here, but rather the delivery and you are spot on. I like to think I have a decent level of integrity and if/when something goes wrong with my Sabbati, I'll be the first one here with a bat to beat the read-headed step-child. Cheers to all, jorge

PS: hmmm a VC is just a Sabbati with better regulation (although how can you do better than my groups??? and better wood, that 5K I spent on the Sabbati looks like a much better deal than I thought!!

quote:

Now come on, we must keep the standards low,
it's CASK WINE and CANNED GIN, drunk in the bottom of the dry river bed

500 we will have to do so this summer when I return but with the 100 dollar cap the goverment put on alcohol sales hope we will be able to do so

Jorge-


I just had the occasion to handle twenty-something VC guns and rifles while helping Ken load and set up his booth for SCI here in Reno.

quote:

PS: hmmm a VC is just a Sabbati with better regulation (although how can you do better than my groups??? and better wood, that 5K I spent on the Sabbati looks like a much better deal than I thought!!

First I'll say, great big congrats on the Sabatti. I have no doubt you'll shoot the hell out of it and love every minute -- and that the buffalo definitely won't!

Next - on VC vs Sabatti (and I'm sure you know this but if you don't, fly over here for a day or so and see for yourself...), those VC guns and rifles are pretty amazing - especially considering the price. Very very nice stuff there and there's a pretty broad array of options and features from which to choose when making up an order.
Really nice stuff.



Oh, and by the way -- can anyone here direct me to a vendor of gin in a can..?
I'd like that for my 4x4 truck emergency and recovery kit!



Cheers
Tinker

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:

quote:

Now come on, we must keep the standards low,
it's CASK WINE and CANNED GIN, drunk in the bottom of the dry river bed

500 we will have to do so this summer when I return but with the 100 dollar cap the goverment put on alcohol sales hope we will be able to do so

The $100 cap has been removed. They are now as drunk as they ever were !!! LOL

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
PS: hmmm a VC is just a Sabbati with better regulation (although how can you do better than my groups??? and better wood, that 5K I spent on the Sabbati looks like a much better deal than I thought!!

Ah, if only the 2 I had were not duds... I could have had the = of a V.C. for about a third of the price!


Seriously though jorge, your Sabatti is a real jewel. If a rifle SHOOTS (accuracy and reliability), it will do the same thing a H&H will when it comes right down to it!

Thanks, Tinker. Believe me I looked at a LOT of doubles at DSC and I've known George Caswell at Champlin for close to thiry years. The VCs are superb rifles. I'm very happy with my Sabbati and the 1" groups it shoots all day long! jorge

Oh lovely now the abos are running around wild yet again what a super thing

Come on guys there is no reason for anger here! Let’s simply take stock of what we are trying to discuss!

The Sabatti double rifle, and their method of regulating:
Is it the best way of doing things? It would seem that it is not consistent enough and is certainly not the accepted way of doing it. That last statement is fact not opinion!

Does it work? Yes SOMETIMES! That sometimes is why it is NOT the accepted way of regulating a double rifle, again because it is less than consistent. I think we can all agree on that fact.

If a guy buys a Sabatti double and it shoots acceptably, should he keep the rifle and hunt with it? My answer to that is a resounding “YES” he should.

OTOH if a guy buys a Sabatti and it doesn’t shoot properly should he still keep it and spend another $1000 or so on it, and maybe still have a dog! My answer to that question is also a resounding NO!

Is the fact that some of the problem rifles are simply the result of the owners being new to double rifle not understanding how a double rifle works, and are shooting them wrong? Absolutely this could be the case in many instances. That being said the regulating method being somewhat suspect indicates, to me at least, most of the cases are the result of poor regulation, but that remains to be seen.

Posting test targets that are consistently great is a fine indication for the rifle, and shooter in question, however test targets in the box with the new rifle don’t seem to mean anything, but the targets the new owners do mean something. With those that I have personally seen and shot lean toward the bad regulation, but the fact is none of us have shot them all, and the anger that is showing it’s ugly face in this thread is not helpful. I say lets back off some, and discuss this in a civil manner.

There are several guys that are having trouble with their Sabatti double rifles, and instead of cussing each other let’s put our heads together and try to help them find the problem with each an every one of them. If they were bad because of poor handling by the new owner, we can advise, if the problem is the rifle we can also advise.

Kicking each other solves nothing, and in fact hinders finding the solution!

To everyone here if you want me to cease and desist, that is what I will be more than happy to do, however if you want what ever help I can muster, I’ll be there too!

The call is yours! If you like cussing, then I’m out!
...............................................................

Spoken like a true gentlemen I will stand down mac

MacD37,

Thank you sir, you are absolutly right in my humble opinion.


I would only like to add old proverb: He who slings mud, loses ground.



My great-grandfather used to say: "If you cain't say it nice, don't say it atall."


I have not always lived by that statement... but when I remember, I do my best to try.

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:

quote:

not WINE or CANNED GIN!

If you spent time in Australia you would understand what him and I are talking about also little boy why dont you ask Mr.Neving about me who you refer to as Mr.Peter who is a personal friend of mine before you try to bring my credentials up. Now I dont mind admiting where im wrong but by a 17 year old child not happening.

Looks to be you would like a 2nd go with me.I simply stated that I do not take guff from children example yourself.What are trying so hard to get into ive already done .Ok you want to speak to me do so puff your chest out and come at me like a man not tip toe around anything come head on ..Just keep that in mind next time

There is so much pissing going on here ,we all are going to have yellow socks. It's a shame they did not do it better, if you got a good one ,good for you. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good!I hope it keeps shooting well jorge.

JD

SDS = Sabatti Derangement Syndrome

Several seem smitten.

.

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:

quote:

not WINE or CANNED GIN!

If you spent time in Australia you would understand what him and I are talking about also little boy why dont you ask Mr.Neving about me who you refer to as Mr.Peter who is a personal friend of mine before you try to bring my credentials up. Now I dont mind admiting where im wrong but by a 17 year old child not happening.

quote:

Looks to be you would like a 2nd go with me.I simply stated that I do not take guff from children example yourself.What are trying so hard to get into ive already done .Ok you want to speak to me do so puff your chest out and come at me like a man not tip toe around anything come head on ..Just keep that in mind next time

Express Rifles,

You're out of line here, I agree with you that the Sabattis are a cheaply made excuse for a double concocted by Cabelas in cahoots with a willing Italian gunmaker but there is no reason for the personal insults and you owe Nemo an apology. His age or experience is irrelevant, he saved up the money for a double, bought one and one was hosed, returned it and ordered another and so is one of us.


Cheers,
Andy

Well sir you may feel I owe him but its not going to happen