I finally received the "Double Rifle" I found on the internet. Had it shipped from PA to MA.

I had to do a few things to it to get it to come close to grouping. The inserts were lose in the barrels. I had to put them into my lathe and take a few thousands off the collors that the regulator excentrics were touching. I also replaced the two "O" rings with larger diameter ones.

The sights were totally useless. A brass front bead and a simple piece of tin beny to 90 degrees with a "V" cut into it. No adjustment at all. I had a bunch of old front sight ramps in my junk drawer and along with a surplus rear ramp, I drilled and tapped the barrels and installed.

I loaded up a mid load of Reloader #7 under some 405G bullets and headed to the range.

First two shots were at 1 O'clock, about 6 inches out of the bulls-eye at 25 yards. Both holes were 3.5" apart.

I pushed the target out to 50 yards and adjusted the sights. Both shots were in an 8" bulls-eye at 4.75 inches apart.

I shot the remaining loads just to get the feel of the gun. I'll return with various loads and play around with the regulating excentics later this week.

So for $600....I'm in the Double Rifle game........"Wild Hogs.....Look Out!"









I ordered a new English style butt pad and will refinish the stock. I also will install inset sling swivels.

Many more pictures here:
http://public.fotki.com/Rberta...ty-h/?cmd=manualsort

Looks great to me. It shoots as good as I would need it to!

Roy, I have the same setup but you are light years ahead of me. I'm still trying to come up with sights. I agree what they came with were a joke. Unlike you I don't have a junk drawer with open sights in it.

Any suggestions on what sights to purchase since I'll be going new?

Looks cool and only $600. I wish I could get one here in NZ.

WTG! Congratulations!

Paul,

If you look in the Brownells catalog, there are all kinds of front and rear sights available. In fact, there are more appropriate sights than I used.

You might also check with a local gunsmith. I'm sure if he's done any Mauser conversions to sporting, he has a "junk drawer" full of sights also.

Those look like 700 Remington sights to me?

DM

The certainly could be Rem 700 sights. I have a number of sets that I keep around for various projects.

Have your fun and kill your game!!!

Hello guys.

I made my own 1/4 rib from bar stock and front sight ramp also.
Used a Marbles fibre bead front and a Dakota express rear.
I will see if I can find pics to post.

Nitro

Found some pics, ignore the rifled chokes, this is Paradox mode.

Nitro: How does your "paradox Baikal" perform?

Bill

Quite well, but I am still developing loads for it.

Will post some pics soon.

Nitro

That looks like a proper pig killing instrument to me!

Any reason this could not be turned into a 45-90 or even a 45-120? At 35k PSI the 45-120 can make those 450 grain bullets go plenty fast.

Boomstick

Maybe a 45-90 ?
The 110 or 120 is too long IMHO.
Remember the outer shape of the insert tube is the same as 2 3/4" 12 ga shotgun shell, it tapers radically down in front of that, and the barrel portion of the tubes them selves are not all that thick.
Look at the picture of the muzzles and you can see how thin the tubes are.
I would be concerned about the thickness of the chambers at the throat on the longer 110 and 120.

I need to see the dimensional difference between the 70 and 90, to be sure, but i thik it will be OK.

I have been considering this for mine, but did not want to do anything until i fixed the R barrel.( It shoots lower ~ 5" )
I made a custom set of cams, hope to test them this afternoon.

Nitro

quote:

Originally posted by nitro450exp:

Cool cat. Saves money and time when you can just hunt leopards in your living room!

I would probably catch chit for using a $550 45-70 DR on DG here on AR, good thing she is 1:10 scale, HA HA

RoyB

I found that the bushings only moved the barrels in a horizontal plane.
Do you have any issues with Verticle spread on your barrels ?

Thanks
Nitro

I'm not sure about the spead at this time. I need to get out and shoot it more.........

Was thinking about the 405 Win inserts so I guess maybe they could be made on magnum chambers but maybe a custom job

After seeing this thread I'm sort of interested in building a set of adjustable inserts in 30-30 or 30/40 Krag to fit into a 20 bore shotgun. Are there any pics or good descriptions of the inserts?

After seeing the pics of Nitro's paradox my impression is that the inserts make use of the choke tube threads with a separate collar for adjustment???

Would anyone know if EAA still sell the model 221 which is there double rifle?

quote:

Originally posted by MACD:
After seeing this thread I'm sort of interested in building a set of adjustable inserts in 30-30 or 30/40 Krag to fit into a 20 bore shotgun. Are there any pics or good descriptions of the inserts?

After seeing the pics of Nitro's paradox my impression is that the inserts make use of the choke tube threads with a separate collar for adjustment???

Are you sure you can't buy them off the shelf ?

I know some calibres you can.

.

Tanfoglio in Italy make them, on the Italian web site the tubes are available in many calibers. I do not know of any other importer.
I would not buy a thing from "Those" Fools in FL ever again.

Nitro

Nitro

Which "fools" in Florida ?


I believe a couple of US companies make inserts
so not sure which one you are talking about.

.

500N

EAA/Rockledge International.
The importers of Baikal and Sabatti.

TOTAL JACKA$$E$.

Nitro

So would you buy the Baikal SxS double rifle or SxS shotgun? from EAA?

I found some U.S. made inserts that are designed to use in single barrel shotguns, but the longest was only 18" long. No provision for adjustment.

I also found a description of the Tanfoglio inserts stating that one barrel is held rigidly and the other has the collar to enable point of impact adjustment for regulation. They are only 20" long.

quote:

After seeing this thread I'm sort of interested in building a set of adjustable inserts in 30-30 or 30/40 Krag to fit into a 20 bore shotgun. Are there any pics or good descriptions of the inserts?

After seeing the pics of Nitro's paradox my impression is that the inserts make use of the choke tube threads with a separate collar for adjustment???

When I get a chance I'll disassemble the barrels and take pictures. The EAA web site says these inserts will only fit shotguns with threaded barrels for choke tubes, but these inserts do not use these threads at all. Strange.......

Both tubes have the eccentrics adjustment. The tubes come with a couple of different eccentrics, but since I bought this gun used, it only came with one set. I emailed EAA about getting the other eccentrics and they had no idea what I was talking about. I'll need to call and find someone who knows this system.

Bill/Oregon

Here are some pics from initial Paradox testing.
50 Yds siting off shooting sticks.



This picture needs to rotate 90 left (R barrel is consistently low )




More loads for testing.





Just need to build up the courage.
Getting pounded by slugs all day is no fun.

Nitro

Nitro
That doesn't look bad at all. I've wondered how a double would perform with rifled choke tubes.

FYI - there is a good article in the Spring issue of Double Gun Journal on loading for paradox doubles. Don't know if the info would apply to your gun or not, but bullets needed to be sized to nearly fall down the smooth bore section. You might find something useful.

Why are they called "Paradox Doubles".........??

MACD

I had a custom sizer die made that does just that, I did this before the article came out.
I did read that article.
I am shooting Hard Cast full bore slugs 0.730" and 0.735" round balls.
My Bores mearured 0.7265" and 0.727" so I had a 0.7265" custom sizer die made.
The rifeling on the tubes is 0.730" grooves and 0.725" lands so I am not getting the kind of engraving I would with a fosber style land.
But I am also pushing 1400 to 1600 fps.

Nitro

RoyB

The original Fosbery patented "Paradox" sxs shotgun had a ratchet style rifled choke that was a permanent part of the last few inches (~2") of each barrel.
These gun were reported to shoot shot and bullets with satisfactory levels of accuracy, hence the paradox.
Typically shotguns did one or the other but rarely both well.

Holland and Holland trade marked the Paradox and other makers made their own versions, Westley Richards "Explora" and others I do not recall.

Nitro

Nitro

I think you might be surprised at the level of accuracy of Paradox's and other guns of this type.

All 8 shots in an 8" Circle off hand at 100 yards has been done quite a few times.

.

RoyB

The original paradox doubles are a sort of cross between a rifle and a shotgun. They are usually smooth bored up to about 6" from the muzzles and then start to choke down. The choked portion is rifled to impart enough spin to stabilize the bullet. Usually they have one or two leaf folding rear sights that lie flat in the rib so they are out of sight when using as a shotgun.

The guns typically are fairly light and can be used as a shotgun or as a rifle with the appropriate loads. Several makers produced them altho I think the paradox name was from Holland and Holland. Others sometimes called them ball & shot guns.

I had a W.C. Scott hammer paradox a number of years ago that was extremely accurate. Like an idiot I sold it. It had extremely shallow rifling the whole length of the barrels. As it approached the muzzles the rifling sped up and got deeper.

I think the paradox name was

MacD

Sounds like your Scott was a bore gun with Rifling the full length of the barrels.

500N

Do not misunderstand my 3rd person verbage to mean, I consider them inaccurate.
They can be very accurate.

Nitro

Thank You!

Learn something new every day!

I think we need a new Paradox thread! I've heard they were very effective on heavy game out to about 100 meters.
I've often wondered about installing rifled choke tubes in a double ...