500N

No, It definitely wasn't a bore rifle. I'm familiar with bore rifles and this was different. It was a back lock, round action hammer gun with straight grip, top lever and splinter forend. About 7 to 7 1/2 lbs wt. No stalking safeties. Usual ring type sling swivels. Single rear sight leaf that folded flat.

I think my description misled you. The rifling in the "smooth" section of the bores was so faint that I actually had owned the gun for quite some time before I realized it was there. The only way to see it was if you had just the right angle on the lighting. Very slow twist. Perhaps the thinking was that it would get that big bullet rotating a little before it contacted the faster, deeper rifling in the choked section.

Without doing any research on it, I wondered if it was Scott's way of getting around a patent? Or maybe simply a marketing tool? I've never been able to look at another similar Scott to make comparisons.

Talk about coincidence! I just looked at Champlin's website and he lists a Paradox by Holland & Holland. Except for the name and the case, this gun is almost a dead ringer for the Scott that I had. Altho, mine shot better!

I wonder if Scott may have provided the action or barreled action for the H&H? I've read they did a lot of that.

Now that I'm thinking more about it, I'm REALLY regretting selling the Scott!

quote:

Originally posted by MACD:

I wonder if Scott may have provided the action or barreled action for the H&H? I've read they did a lot of that.

I believe Scott made virtually all of H&H's guns before a certain date until they started making their own guns.

That's why espousing about the certain quality of H&H's before a certain time was
a bit of an eyebrows raised moment.

quote:

Originally posted by nitro450exp:
RoyB

I found that the bushings only moved the barrels in a horizontal plane.
Do you have any issues with Verticle spread on your barrels ?

Thanks
Nitro

I have a .30-06 that prints fine horizontally but is about 6 inches off vertically. When I get a chance I'm going to shim one side of the end barrel band with feeler guages until it prints next to each other. Btw, thats at 100m. Twice as far as I want to shoot it but my local range wont let me shoot it at the 50m range.

For what it's worth - I've got one of the Remington (Bikal/EAA) 45-70 Double's. Mounted a Nikon 1-4x20 on it. Been playing with it for almost two years and finally getting it sorted out enough to take with me this year (July) to Namibia for PG.

I've had a gunsmith give it a trigger job - basically just cleaned them up and smoothed them out. I've been working on getting it regulated with Rem 405 JFP at about 1700fps. On the 50yd line it will group each barrel well within a 2" circle and the circle centers about barrel width apart. However, they have a vertical spread of about 3". Still trying to sort that part out.

Figure with that vertical spread I could just leave it that way - have a 50yd barrel (right & front trigger) and a 100yd barrel (left & rear trigger). Have a few weeks to try and improve things but it should be a fun PG gun.

DG? I'd have to think about it hard. Last year I played with 330gr .458 SOCOM solids at 2400fps based in part on Micheal458's work. End to end pass through on a medium sized zebra. I am going to load a few of those at the max pressure listed on the rifle and try them on a couple of gemsbok this year just to see how they do at 1900-2000fps.

I think the work and data Michael458 has collected on modern solids is kind of turning conventional "knowledge" on it's head and opening up options that were not there a few years ago.

This week I found time to complete;y refinish the stock on my "CDR" (Cheap Double Rifle)

There was actually some pretty nice wood under that crappy factory finish



After 20 coats of Tung Oil, Hand Rubbed......It ain't no H&H, but then again, it only cost $600!



A new butt pad was installed also


Sling swivels were inlet into the forearm and the stock






Before:


After:

I worked up some loads for the "CDR"........50g of RL7 under a 325g Beartooth Gas Checked bullet......

This is three shots from each barrel at 25 yds using a front "bean bag" rest........



And this is two shots from each barrel at the same distance from standing, unsupported .....



The first two shots were 2.5" apart....Easily minute of hog!

That left barrel is a honey! Now I just need to figure out a way to get the right barrel to move a bit to the left.........

Roy

Factory cams came with 1 and 2 dots.
Which ones do you have ?
If the cams I made work I will send you the narrow set to try, unless you have the narrowest set already.

Nitro

I have "one dot" cams.

Thanks

Roy.

I will check mine when I get home tonight and let you know.

Nitro

Hello,

Shot the CDR (Cheap DR) with the custom bushing I made to correct the R barrel being low.
Looks like I brought it up too much.
But I think I can live with it.
I will play with loads and see if I can tighten up the group.
The main group is 2 1/2" by 2 1/2" I pulled one shot off to the right.
This was 50 yds Iron sights 6 Oclock hold. The dot is 2" dot.



I also shot some slug loads in "Paradox" mode.
Here are 2 best candidates at 25 yds. The dot is 1" dot.





Nitro

Roy

I also refinished my wood.
Except I also reshaped the butt stock.
I took the hump out of the top of the stock and the belly out of the bottom.
I put a notch benind the pistol grip and flattened it.
I defined the shield / chevrons on either side of the tangs, made an actual 90 degress ledge.
And then a few coats of tru
oil and steel wool matt finished it.
Also added black decelerator pad.

Nitro

RoyB:
You wrote "When I get a chance I'll disassemble the barrels and take pictures. The EAA web site says these inserts will only fit shotguns with threaded barrels for choke tubes, but these inserts do not use these threads at all. Strange......."
I wonder if having the choke-tube threads will make any differance??? I have the Bounty Hunter II but without choke-tube threads. I was thinking about buying the two adapter barrels but not having the threads has stopped me.
Do you or anybody else know if the system will work without the threads?
Thank you

My only thought is they specify the threaded tubes because these tubes are a known length and the unthreaded tubes the length varies?

Pictures coming.........

quote:

Originally posted by nitro450exp:
Roy

I also refinished my wood.
Except I also reshaped the butt stock.
I took the hump out of the top of the stock and the belly out of the bottom.
I put a notch benind the pistol grip and flattened it.
I defined the shield / chevrons on either side of the tangs, made an actual 90 degress ledge.
And then a few coats of tru
oil and steel wool matt finished it.
Also added black decelerator pad.

Nitro

PICTURES PLEASE!!!

I want to take mine in and have the stock lengthened and something done with the grip so it fits my hand better. I have to mash my face against the stock to get a good sight picture (with open sights)

I would love to be able to show a pic to the stock maker to show what I want. Thanks!!!

Here are the promised pictures:

The rifled tubes are held in with an eccentric bushing, an "O" ring, and the knurled, threaded cap







The breech of the tube has an extractor held by a spring steel hoop



The breach has a thicker section where the chamber lies. If I was to convert this shotgun to full time DR, I'd epoxy this section into the shotgun tubes. I have to believe it would add accuracy. Although it fits very tightly, there is still movement. Most likely not an issue with a 45-70 at 50 yards.




The muzzle of the tube is here. You can see where I turned down the collar just a bit so the threaded cap could pull the tube tighter.



As you can see, the inserts have nothing to do with the choke threads.



Many more pictures in my photo album available here:

www.rvbprecision.com (Things that go BANG)

As far as the stock is concerned, mine has quite a bit of cast off. The butt pad is about 1/4" away from the centerline of the barrels. Not sure if this was a design feature or simply the stock warped in the correct direction.

I have few guns that come to shoulder as well as this one. And with the heavy barrels you can hold on target amazingly well and the recoil with 425 cast at 1300fps is a pussy cat to shoot.

RoyB,
As you mentioned the threaded barrels are of a known length, while the unthreaded ones are not. My unthreaded barrels are 19 7/8 inches long. How long are yours? If the same, then I might try it out anyway, but I'm not sure if I should as I could put the money towards a Baikal MP221 SXS in .45-70.
The only problem is nobody seems to have one for sale new-in-the-box, or even used.

I'll measure them when I get home on Thursday. I'm traveling until then.

I've never seen a set of these barrel adapters but from the pictures it looks as if the threaded muzzles may be required to provide space for the eccentric bushing to fit into. I'll bet the wall thickness of the choke tube is about the same as the eccentric

I'm assuming that the choke tubes must be removed to use the rifle inserts? If this is true the fixed choke barrels would not accept the barrel inserts.

RoyB, if you do decide to Loctite the liners in you might want to remove the extractors from the liners. Then either make a new extractor or modify the Baikal extractor to fit the cutouts in the liners. If those piggyback extractors in the liners seized up at some point it would be difficult to fix them.

Just a thought if you make it a full time DR. Actually, if you do glue them in full time you could glue the eccentric bushings in also and remove the knurled caps. Might give a cleaner look.

Thanks for the ideas.....but I'm not going to glue them in. I actually might use the gun as a shotgun this coming fall for upland game, if I can buy a set of choke inserts.

quote:

Originally posted by RoyB:
Thanks for the ideas.....but I'm not going to glue them in. I actually might use the gun as a shotgun this coming fall for upland game, if I can buy a set of choke inserts.

For Baikal chokes, go to Colonial Arms.

http://www.colonialarms.com/ct13.html

Tom

quote:

For Baikal chokes, go to Colonial Arms.

GREAT! Thanks

Roy

CDNN Investments have the Remington SPR (Baikal)
chokes for really cheap.
Colonial is where I bought my extended rifled chokes to make mine into a "Modern Paradox"

Nitro

Neat old thread. Anyone out there still paying with "CDR's"?

Good timing on the previous post. I have been corresponding with a man in Australia who made s paradox gun by installing Briley rifled tubes in a shortened SxS 12ga. His success came with Brenneke old-style slugs with the attached tail section. He was getting 8" composite groups st 100m. He did have to re -regulate the barrels for the slugs but the gun then shot much better with shot. He said that with small shot, the gun performed about as well with rifled tubes as with smooth ones. The Briley tubes are advertised as spreader tubes which probably means a slow twist.

I would like to find more on this subject.who makes the best rifled tube this project?And do
I have to regulate the barrels?