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Originally posted by MacD37:

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Originally posted by fourbore:
Can someone explain again, why a 470 has to cost 5k and 45/70 $3k? Why is a $6k gun, the 'goto' gun ???

Do hunters or shooters need engraving or other fancy crap.

What ever happened to unpretentious modesty?

We are talking men here right? MEN, Not women buying dresses and shoes!

What LOOKS better, a splinter forearm or one you can actually get a grip on? Engraving? Like pimps in purple caddys.

The answer to a prevalent question often asked!


On Internet forums I find some questions are asked on every thread regarding double rifles. These questions are most often asked by folks who have zero experience with stopping rifles in general, or double rifles in particular. This is not always the case however, because these same questions are often asked by people who should already know the answers. Even worse the folks who should already know the answer give answers, as fact, when they really don’t know the answers. This has been a problem for some time, and is one reason so many people do not understand double rifles, or how they work. Because of misinformation in magazines, or by folks like well-known gunsmiths, are taken as fact by the person who asked the question in the first place.

The most common misconception is that double rifles are regulated to have the shots cross at a given distance, and that the double rifle because of that fact, are only good for short range hunting! This misconception is repeated by amature, and so-called experts alike, and is patently wrong! More about that latter.

The second most asked question is why does a 470NE double rifle cost so much more than a double chambered for 9.3X74R made by the same maker, with the same amount of finish?

The reasoning for the question is always the same, and on the surface is makes sense. That reasoning is, it takes the same amount of fit and finish to build the two rifles so why is the 9.3X74R selling for $7K, while the same grade 470NE sells for $10K up? Why the $3K difference? There is a sound reason, believe it or not!

This is usually asked about off the shelf doubles rather that custom made to order doubles. I think you will find that custom made in both chamberings will cost much closer together.

The whole process of building of off the shelf double rifles is that much very skilled handwork is involved. This requires many man-hours of very skilled labor , and that labor comes at a hight cost per hour, multiplied by about 700 to 800 man-hours. this cost is not off-set by a deposite made up front by the buyer.

This cost must be bared by the company up front. First off the components must be made or bought before the building can commence, a out-lay of several hundred dollars. Then comes the labor. Even with as much grunt work being done with CNC as is possible this too requires expert operators, which are not cheap, and the actual team of rifle makers, barrel men, stock fitters, metal sculptors, action fitters, barrel regulators, sight regulators. This team requires a salary that is paid weekly, or at least by-weekly, and the rifle hasn’t even been ordered by a dealer yet. These companies are small compared to the large companies we Americans are used to, and must, most times, work on borrowed money, and by the time the completed rifles are ready to ship, a pile of money has already spent with interest piling up, while these rifle sit on the shelves awaiting orders.

The wages have been paid, the rifles are finished and on the shelf, the interest is still building. So we come to shelf time for the rifles. The 9.3X74R, and smaller rifles will move very fast, because the European market for double rifle in those chambers is larger by twenty times that of the double rifle made in the 375 H&H and up, but the time really gets long above 450NE, because most are bought with Africa in mind, and are rarely used for hunting anyplace else. The 9.3, and lower are everyday hunting guns in Europe and sell like our bolt rifles here, so sit on the shelf a very short time. The ones sold in the USA are but a drop in the bucket compared to those sold in Europe, especially Eastern Europe. However, the 450NE and up are sold mostly in the USA, and not in big lots.

The large Safari doubles may sit on the shelf for a year before someone orders one, all the time logging up more interest before the return of the cost out-lay plus any profit they may have generated. The lag time between commencement of work on the rifle, and final payment by the customer may be a year or more for the Safari double, while only five of six months for the smaller rifle. That lag time costs money, and the longer the time the more it costs.

.................Sound about right?

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The large Safari doubles may sit on the shelf for a year before someone orders one,

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Originally posted by fourbore:

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The large Safari doubles may sit on the shelf for a year before someone orders one,

These gun were all built same year and sold immediately, via cabelas or at this show. ALL the 470 and 500 are sold -gone. ONLY the less expensive 45/70 remain unsold! All built on the same frame, same weight, same time period, same regulation effort -same, same,same. Well except, it maybe he 470 had more machine engraving! Woopie!

So much for that "sitting on the shelf longer" theory.

Based on info posted here. Admitted - I have no personal knowledge of this situation.

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

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If you are bitching about a big bore double rifle costing $5000 USD then you are looking at the wrong class of firearm.

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Given that, we must conclude the asking price is driven by the perception that folks that require a larger caliber are capable of traveling to Africa and paying high trophy fees so they can pay more for the rifle.

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I will say I have handled the base models chambered for 45-70, and they are a little shaky IMO, and not worth much more that the asking price if at all. I, for one, would rather pay $1000 more for the Pedersoli 45-70, because in my opinion, the pedersoli is a better made rifle than the base Sabatti.

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Guys try to convince themselves that a 10K shotgun is a rip-off or just priced because of engraving, wood etc. Certainly there are examples where this is true (Beretta sideplated guns, for example) but once you've shot a range of shotguns for a while the price differences begin to make some sense.