quote:

Originally posted by Rockrat:
Heard that Cabelas will be in Reno and will be bringing 500NE(2),470NE(2),416(2), and one 450NE in the Sabatti's DRs

Might be just a bunch of chewed up grass in a pet bulls intestine, but thought I would let those here know what I was told.

I saw one 500 (with a sold tag), one 470 and a 416 Rigby (unless I read that wrong) at the Cabela's booth in Dallas.

Got my Sabatti DR in today. Its in 45-70 and took it to the range to see how it shoots. Just rested arms on bench. Could use about another half/one lbs as fairly light. Shooting some Horandy Leverevolution ammo plus some 345gr cast in front of 50gr AA2015. At 60yds, the Hornady was about 2" high and at 100 was about 3-4" high. Gun was regulated with 300gr HP Winchester ammo and the Hornady is 325gr. The 345cast shot about 5" high at 60yds and 12" high at 100yds.
Nothing fancy about the wood. Here are a few pics.

quote:

Gun was regulated with 300gr HP Winchester ammo and the Hornady is 325gr.

Did you just happen to notice how the regulated load shot? 50 yard, Group size?

No, didn't shoot any because I don't have any. I understood it was regulated with the Hornady and I did have some of that,but the enclosed regulation target said Winchester.
Going to gun show today, then store and will see if I can find some.

I saw them at the DSC show yesterday. They had three of them on a rack in the Cabela's booth. I didn't handle them just looked them over on the rack. They look OK on the outside, and someone must think they are worth the price as two of them had "SOLD" tags hanging on them.

Like everyone else here, I'm waithing for someone to post the results on the range with them. As I said the looked OK, doesn't quite describe them. I'd say the for the price they LOOK better than just OK, and if they shoot as good as they look, and show no failiers in opertation, then they will be a very low entery ticket into the DRSS!

The truth still remaines to be seen, however!

......................

Rockrat, who or where did you get your 45-70 from?

I got it from Cabelas.

Rockrat,

I read your first post more carefully this time, like I should have first time around.

The Hornady leverevolution might be a better hunting load. Being 2 inches high 50yds, is fine, (IMHO), how did the two bbls group ? within 2 inches at 50, using iron sights?

Didn't target the Hornday, just shot our gongs. Went to the range today with a partial box if WW ammo. Shot the six rounds at the target at 50m and the last over the chronograph.
I was aiming at the bottom of the 6" black bull, but think I came up a bit for the last two shots as they were about 2" above the paste-on target. 55+ year old eyes you know. Two right holes are from the left barrel, so it is crossing by 50m. Velocity was 1952fps for the 300gr HP
Sorry about the pic.

Also shot some 300gr Rem HP loads, running about 2200fps. Crossing increased to 8" and group was 12" high.
I guess for an entry level gun, you get entry level results. Wood/metal fit is pretty good
Will paper the Hornady loads and report on that. Probably be next weekend at least

Thank you ... interesting. Could be better, you might try a scope if you question your eyes. Mine are older, its a bitch.

One good thing about 45/70 is there are a lot of loads to choose from.

It sounds like the leverevolution was closer to point of aim, perhaps group better too? The WW are about 5 inch high where Hornady was only 2 the other day?

If the rifle were mine, I would not be concerned at all about high or low. Find a load that groups reasonably well without shooting apart or crossing more than an inch or so. Elevation can easilly be corrected by changing to a different height of front sight or by filing down the rear sight.

Since the faster loads were even wider on crossing and height, will load some 300gr bullets down to 1900fps, around 2500fpe and try. Going to load other bullets and shoot for the 2500fpe range and see how they group. Gun comes with a scope base so will eventually try a scope on it.
Keep you apprised on what happens

I am looking at getting a set of folding leaf express sights for mine and losing the plastic dot things. I hope to see Sabatti at the shot show and ask if they have replacements or if I'm better off to get them on my own. I just got another box of LeverEvolution and hope for some warmth to shoot it.

Cannot find a recoil pad to fit the screw pattern either, anyone know of a good non-drilled recoil pad? I'm about five minutes from making my own, if I could find the blasted sorbothane.

BTW, Cabelas in Hammond has a Heym double in 9.3 x 74r, extractor, single trigger, o/u for $3k. Not a bad looking rifle, and a respectable caliber.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas...73&_requestid=228678

What type of creature is that on the lever??

I like blue steel, no engraving. I dont like mastadons or ducks, by machine or by hand. Where is it written every double must be engraved? Same bible where it says they must ALL have 2 triggers? Its all about "looking good".

quote:

Originally posted by maxbear:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas...73&_requestid=228678

What type of creature is that on the lever??

Robert Mugabe.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:
To Bad a dealer like www.champlinarms.com can't do the

world a service and range test a SABATTI THEN HAVE JJ

TEAR IT DOWN and report on what he finds. That's what

we REALLY need!

You know what, if Sabatti thought they were good guns, they should pay JJ to do it.

It would do wonders for the sales.

Hey, if you think they are crap, do us all a favor and you pay for the rifle and having it done.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
I"ll take them all --
375 is high pressure, a 470 aint ..

Same crap stated about the 45/70 rem/bikail .. i got one .. it works, aint an HH, so what.

Right on, Dude. Territorial jealously, eh?

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
As I said the looked OK, doesn't quite describe them. I'd say the for the price they LOOK better than just OK, and if they shoot as good as they look, and show no failiers in opertation, then they will be a very low entery ticket into the DRSS!

The truth still remaines to be seen, however!

......................

I can't believe you said that. I'm writing it down to save.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
I like blue steel, no engraving. I dont like mastadons or ducks, by machine or by hand. Where is it written every double must be engraved? Same bible where it says they must ALL have 2 triggers? Its all about "looking good".

Did you notice the catalog pics, all single trigger guns. Yippee. It's only the goofy Americanos that think they need double triggers.

Should be able to order a single trigger version. Maybe there really is a god.

quote:

Originally posted by ron vella:
If the rifle were mine, I would not be concerned at all about high or low. Find a load that groups reasonably well without shooting apart or crossing more than an inch or so. Elevation can easilly be corrected by changing to a different height of front sight or by filing down the rear sight.

This post is right on the mark.

The group shown shows good promise. The rifle should shoot well with a slower load, or maybe a lighter bullet.

Elevation is irrelevant to regulation, or to finding a load that shoots well, and is the last issue to deal with once the right load is found, either factory or hand rolled.

JPK

Has anyone heard any word on when these might be available? I am interested in one in 450 or 500. Has anybody seen one in a Nitro Express caliber yet? I see Tradex in Canada has them in inventory for waaaaaaay too much. Some folks I have heard have them on order and will take deposits but I am just curious when they might be available. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
I like blue steel, no engraving. I dont like mastadons or ducks, by machine or by hand. Where is it written every double must be engraved? Same bible where it says they must ALL have 2 triggers? Its all about "looking good".

Did you notice the catalog pics, all single trigger guns. Yippee. It's only the goofy Americanos that think they need double triggers.

Should be able to order a single trigger version. Maybe there really is a god.

According to Sabatti retailer price list;

Single triggers are on special order and more expensive

Gents,
Mine was delivered on Friday, looks like a real sturdy rifle, and bit too tight, but that will surely loosen up. I shoot 405 grainers so my guess is the grouping should be ok once I load my own. Will post some pictures later today.45-70 will if handloaded do anything short of Mr.Long nose..so have fun

There is a Sabatti .500 Nitro just listed today on GunsInternational.

It weighs in at 8# 10oz.

Take off another pound or two and it will be perfect for some of our AR members.

Or Safarikid can buy it and make it into a handgun!

Strange they did not post the regulation target with that .500 -- maybe at that weight they figure no one will shoot it...

Shot the Sabatti 45-70.
Sorry no photos of targets and didn't get to shoot much as I was shooting with 405 grain. Could use a little more weight as recoil is pretty good.

quote:

There is a Sabatti .500 Nitro just listed today on GunsInternational.

It weighs in at 8# 10oz.

Would this be about right, or close enough, for the 400/450 as re-introduced by Hornady? The 45/70 should be ok, I think my Marlin is a pound lighter. Or, do the doubles kick a lot more for a given weight?

I was at the SHOT Show this week. Spent lots of time in thhe EAA booth with a Sabatti Rep from Spain. All the doble rifles for this year have been sold to Cabelas

I handled an entry level version in 9.3X74R and 45-70, retail price $3258.00...Very nice! Can't be beat for the $$

Next up was the Mid Grade in 416 Rigby, retail price $5703.00....This is the "Go To" model. Nice wood, nice engraving, beautiful fit and finish.

Top of the line was a 500NE for retail $6029.00 I'm not sure what you get for the extra $300.. Maybe a little nicer wood.

All in all, I'm very impressed with these rifles. They won't last long. Get down to Cabelas and order a few!

BTW........

Calibers available....

The entry level; rifle is only available in 45/70 and 9.3X74R

The two top grade rifles are available in:
375HH
416 Rigby
450 NE
458 Win Mag
470 NE
500 NE

Too bad the top grades aren't available in the great 9.3X74R

RoyB,
Are you saying that Cabellas gets all the rifles for 2010?

Yes, that is what I was told.....Cabelas gets all available rifles for 2010

quote:

I handled an entry level version in 9.3X74R and 45-70, retail price $3258.00...Very nice! Can't be beat for the $$

Next up was the Mid Grade in 416 Rigby, retail price $5703.00....This is the "Go To" model. Nice wood, nice engraving, beautiful fit and finish.

Too bad, they play this game. Why not give us common folk a break and chamber a std grade gun in a real african 40 or larger? I would pay extra to delete the engraving if it came to that.

Cabelas had a few at the SCI in Reno.

They sold all but the .45-70 as of noon today. The .45-70 was tagged $2,999. The .470, .375 and .500 were all priced at $4,999.

They indicate that they have "essentially"contracted for the entire 2010 production.

A young man and his gandpa snapped up the demo 470 that luxus had-- these guns would have been really nice with a nice stick of wood.


By coachsells, shot with i1037 at 2010-01-22

To bad Cabelas had to get involved.
Nice guns for what they are--only thing that I saw I would change is the engraving is a little funky and at 8 1/2 lbs will be brisk in a 470 and 500!

Can someone explain again, why a 470 has to cost 5k and 45/70 $3k? Why is a $6k gun, the 'goto' gun ???

Do hunters or shooters need engraving or other fancy crap.

What ever happened to unpretentious modesty?

We are talking men here right? MEN, Not women buying dresses and shoes!

What LOOKS better, a splinter forearm or one you can actually get a grip on? Engraving? Like pimps in purple caddys.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
What LOOKS better, a splinter forearm or one you can actually get a grip on? Engraving? Like pimps in purple caddys.

dear 4bore

you are actually not supposed to grip the splinter forend but the barrels itself. try it at one point the wood is only there to protect the forend iron and the ejector workings.

if you want clean no-noncense look on the guns, go for what are called colonial grade guns, they are usually pure working guns.

best

peter

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
Can someone explain again, why a 470 has to cost 5k and 45/70 $3k? Why is a $6k gun, the 'goto' gun ???

Do hunters or shooters need engraving or other fancy crap.

What ever happened to unpretentious modesty?

We are talking men here right? MEN, Not women buying dresses and shoes!

What LOOKS better, a splinter forearm or one you can actually get a grip on? Engraving? Like pimps in purple caddys.

Excellent post fourbore!.
Of course fine wood and engraving will always be offered those who like it and can afford it.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
Can someone explain again, why a 470 has to cost 5k and 45/70 $3k? Why is a $6k gun, the 'goto' gun ???

Do hunters or shooters need engraving or other fancy crap.

What ever happened to unpretentious modesty?

We are talking men here right? MEN, Not women buying dresses and shoes!

What LOOKS better, a splinter forearm or one you can actually get a grip on? Engraving? Like pimps in purple caddys.

The answer to a prevalent question often asked!


On Internet forums I find some questions are asked on every thread regarding double rifles. These questions are most often asked by folks who have zero experience with stopping rifles in general, or double rifles in particular. This is not always the case however, because these same questions are often asked by people who should already know the answers. Even worse the folks who should already know the answer give answers, as fact, when they really don’t know the answers. This has been a problem for some time, and is one reason so many people do not understand double rifles, or how they work. Because of misinformation in magazines, or by folks like well-known gunsmiths, are taken as fact by the person who asked the question in the first place.

The most common misconception is that double rifles are regulated to have the shots cross at a given distance, and that the double rifle because of that fact, are only good for short range hunting! This misconception is repeated by amature, and so-called experts alike, and is patently wrong! More about that latter.

The second most asked question is why does a 470NE double rifle cost so much more than a double chambered for 9.3X74R made by the same maker, with the same amount of finish?

The reasoning for the question is always the same, and on the surface is makes sense. That reasoning is, it takes the same amount of fit and finish to build the two rifles so why is the 9.3X74R selling for $7K, while the same grade 470NE sells for $10K up? Why the $3K difference? There is a sound reason, believe it or not!

This is usually asked about off the shelf doubles rather that custom made to order doubles. I think you will find that custom made in both chamberings will cost much closer together.

The whole process of building of off the shelf double rifles is that much very skilled handwork is involved. This requires many man-hours of very skilled labor , and that labor comes at a hight cost per hour, multiplied by about 700 to 800 man-hours. this cost is not off-set by a deposite made up front by the buyer.

This cost must be bared by the company up front. First off the components must be made or bought before the building can commence, a out-lay of several hundred dollars. Then comes the labor. Even with as much grunt work being done with CNC as is possible this too requires expert operators, which are not cheap, and the actual team of rifle makers, barrel men, stock fitters, metal sculptors, action fitters, barrel regulators, sight regulators. This team requires a salary that is paid weekly, or at least by-weekly, and the rifle hasn’t even been ordered by a dealer yet. These companies are small compared to the large companies we Americans are used to, and must, most times, work on borrowed money, and by the time the completed rifles are ready to ship, a pile of money has already spent with interest piling up, while these rifle sit on the shelves awaiting orders.

The wages have been paid, the rifles are finished and on the shelf, the interest is still building. So we come to shelf time for the rifles. The 9.3X74R, and smaller rifles will move very fast, because the European market for double rifle in those chambers is larger by twenty times that of the double rifle made in the 375 H&H and up, but the time really gets long above 450NE, because most are bought with Africa in mind, and are rarely used for hunting anyplace else. The 9.3, and lower are everyday hunting guns in Europe and sell like our bolt rifles here, so sit on the shelf a very short time. The ones sold in the USA are but a drop in the bucket compared to those sold in Europe, especially Eastern Europe. However, the 450NE and up are sold mostly in the USA, and not in big lots.

The large Safari doubles may sit on the shelf for a year before someone orders one, all the time logging up more interest before the return of the cost out-lay plus any profit they may have generated. The lag time between commencement of work on the rifle, and final payment by the customer may be a year or more for the Safari double, while only five of six months for the smaller rifle. That lag time costs money, and the longer the time the more it costs.

.................Sound about right?