I came across this post on the Cabelas gun library listings. I know nothing about them. The price got my attention!


Sabatti Double Rifles at Cabelas

Rusty:

Me too, looks awfully good for the money, but I know zip about them. Hopefully someone in here does.

nice looking guns with a price that even poor guys like me can afford but even chapuis standard models which are known for very high quality are not much more expensive than that. i wish they made them in 450-400 too.
regards
yes

5K here, and that includes some heavy taxes to import rifles

into the USA to sell retail. Chris Sells probably can give us

a good estimate of how much of this price is TAX. I'll bet over

$1500. How can a $3500 rifle stack up to a Heym, Demas V-C,

Merkel, K-Gun, etc or the California Searcy who is not paying

import taxes.

I want to see what the regulation is like.

Has someone suddenly found a very cheap way of regulating a double rifle ?


It might be a case of you get what you pay for ?

There have been a number of discussions about the inexpensive Sabatti doubles at NitroExpress, many featuring the member "bwananelson" who indicated he had ordered several.

It appears EAA is supposed to be the importer, not sure what the "Cabela's Exclusive" has that is different.

Do a search over there and you should find a number of discussions.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
I want to see what the regulation is like.

Has someone suddenly found a very cheap way of regulating a double rifle ?


It might be a case of you get what you pay for ?

On the Cabela's page they do have a regulation target, although the fine print does say that wood and targets will vary...

Charles,

That's one gun, one target.


Now I think everyone on here knows how many rounds it can take to work out a load for a DR that shoots.

And that's without having to spend the time soldering the barrels or whatever.

Add the cost of the ammo to regulate a DR correctly ? Seems mighty cheap to me.


Take the cost of the ammo and taxes off,
seems too damn cheap.

I hope I am proved wrong.

That's why I added the note. Who knows what the production run will see.

Clearly it seems that if they really deliver these at this price point there will be some corners cut somewhere. I guess it remains to be seen how they stack up against the other entry-level doubles.

I'd love to have a .470 or .500 double, but would want some hands-on info myself.

If anyone wants one let me know. I have had several of the non-engraved ones on order since they first listed them. Since Cabelas has them I am pretty sure I will see some in the near future. The price I was quoted is way less than Cabelas.

What calibers?

The list I have says 45-70, 375 H&H, 416 Rigby, 458win, 450 nitro, 470 nitro, 500 nitro, and 600 nitro.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:
That's why I added the note. Who knows what the production run will see.

Clearly it seems that if they really deliver these at this price point there will be some corners cut somewhere. I guess it remains to be seen how they stack up against the other entry-level doubles.

I'd love to have a .470 or .500 double, but would want some hands-on info myself.

Cut corners - mmmmmm, not sure I like that.

Just the ammo cost of 500 and 600 Nitro to regulate would be way up there in $$$ terms
if it has been done correctly.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charles_Helm:


Cut corners - mmmmmm, not sure I like that.

Just the ammo cost of 500 and 600 Nitro to regulate would be way up there in $$$ terms
if it has been done correctly.

I do not want to seem unduly negative, but by "cut corners" I mean that I can see no way that Sabatti can deliver the amount of hand-fiting and finish work you would expect on a much more expensive rifle. As I said above, it will be interesting to see how these compare to, say, a Merkel.

For the price it is very tempting. I have to admit some concern about delivery at the quoted price.

Charles,

Yes, i realised what you meant by cutting corners.

It's just the only thing you can put an actual $ to is the ammo.

Sabbatti make good rifles and have been doing it for a long time, as have Merkel and Searcy, it just interesting that they can come in so cheap.

We will see.

Supposedly, they have in the Fort Worth Cabelas. I think we should send Mac over to look at em! Of course all in the name of "Research"!

Something tells me he would not require much arm twisting.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:
Something tells me he would not require much arm twisting.

I don't think it will take any twisting at all, because I'm in that market as well, and I want to look them over myself. If they look good enough to me I'll likely buy a 450NE tomorrow!

Looking forward to your report!

Mac,

Please post whatever you find. Intriguing double rifle, to say the least.

Who would have ever thought disposable doubles in 450, 470 and 500 calibers!

I believe the 450's have already been sold.

Interesting that the 450's have gone and
the others have not - 470's, 500's.

Well gentlemen, the Fort Worth store Gun library guy wasn't even aware they Sabatti double rifle even existed. The only Sabatti double rifle they had was an O/U 30-06, and it sold so they have nothing to look at in the store. He was going to check it out, and get back to me to see if they intend sending any of these doubles to the local stores.

Like most here the price tells me something has been done a little shoddily and the country never looks like the post card when you get there. Still $4999.99 is a hell of a price even if the rifle is just serviceable at all for hunting, in those chamberings.

I'm sure the pictures posted on the Cabela's website are the pick of the litter, and a close look at those pictures I see some little glitches. Like what looks to be a deep gouge in the right side of the quarter rib just behind the rear sight. Wood to steel fit is not well done on the left side where the butt stock meets the action. However for machine engraving the engraving looks far better than the cartoon animals on the Merkels 140-2.2. As it was done on a plasma CAM and a close up shows some pretty good detail. The bead on the front sight looks like an afterthought, and the wide "V" express sight needs a little work. My fear is that the rough stuff will be inside the action, with soft sear engagements. That fix could be costly. The regulation target with the one posted shows a 1" two shot group but one OVER the other. I would love to see a six shot group at that same 50 Mtrs. If anyone here lives close to the Sidney, Neb store go look at them, if not when the FW store gets one I'll be looking to them.
...................

HISTORICAL NOTES

The history of firearms in Val Trompia is one with the history of the local people who with tireless energy, skillful creativity and remarkable ingenuity have manufactured firearms through good times and bad.
Antonio Sabatti

Both the documents found in Italian and European archives and the wealth of arms (daggers, swords, arquebuses, pistols and guns) jealously preserved in the world's great museums testify to the existence of firearm manufacture in Val Trompia for centuries. Further, they reveal the inventive and highly refined technology achieved by the craftsmen of this valley.
The Sabatti family has always played a significant role in firearm manufacture: its members, at one time or an other, have excelled in many of its different crafts. For example, in the early years of the 18th century, the arquebusier Lodovico Sabatti (1674-1745), working in Gardone Valtrompia, was an excellent flint-lock pistols designer and also a well-known barrel-maker.
Later, Giuseppe Sabatti (active in Gardone Valtrompia between 1760 and 1815) was regarded as the manufacturer of remarkable arquebuses. To underline the diversity of the activities carried out by the Sabatti family, it is interesting to note that in the first half of the 19th century, another Giuseppe Sabatti was considered one of the best barrel welders who produced pieces in "very fine true Damascus" steel.
Emanuele Sabatti


Through the years, the family concentrated in perfecting the manufacture of flint locks. Indeed, when - in 1848 - the provisional government of Brescia requested from the craftsmen of Magno Valtrompia "not [their] blood but their craftsmanship for the Nation's defense", 4 out of the 10 lock manufacturers established in the area were Sabattis. In the same period, Domenico Sabatti was a specialized barrel maker and Giovanni Sabatti, working between 1840 and 1860, a well-known arquebus manufacturer.
The various branches of the Sabatti family that have continued this activity without interruption up to the present day - on their own or in partnership with others - are very well-known. Immediately after world War II (1946), Antonio Sabatti in partnership with Giuseppe Tanfoglio gave a renewed impetus to the production of shotgun parts, once again with a preference for lock manufacture. Around 1956, they started the production of automatic pistols for personal defense; four years later, the company was split, leaving each partner with a different branch of activity.
The sons of Antonio Sabatti in 1960 founded a new company for the production of shotguns. Since then, the company has grown up and now Sabatti is probably one of the most known brand in the shotgun business.
Today, three of the grandsons of Antonio Sabatti: Emanuele, Antonio and Marco, continue to manufacture hunting and sporting shotguns with the same success that their family enjoyed in the past, constantly improving them to meet the evolving needs of hunters and shooters throughout the world.


Maybe this will shed some light on the new double! I will definitely try one out for that price!

I'm new to DRs but not to SxS shotguns and the discussion on this thread parallels that on many shotgun lists. Price differences are NOT only due to engraving or wood figure. There is an overall quality difference - I know I can feel it when using shotguns (don't know enough about DRs) but I would predict that even if these rifles go "bang" every time, there is a certain essence wanting. Certainly a decent-enough shotgun can be made to sell in this price range (even tho it may not have all the feel of a fine gun) and maybe that's what's happened here. There are 9.3 x 74 Chapuis UGEXs on the market NIB for $4600 or so and that isn't far off these prices and I'm led to believe Chapuis is a decent enough rifle (I'll find out personally this week). It will be very interesting to get first-hand reports!

Oxon

not sure of how many where made BUT a reliaible source told mr that the 30-06 this guys made was junk, so I would not trust these guys till someone has tested a few of them in the real world

Well guys a friend of mine ordered one down to our local cabelas, and we went and played with it on saturday. I handled great, fit well. I liked the safety, easy on/off.

We handled a Kriegoff, and just working the safety on and off was a nightmare.

Also, my friend called the Sabatti people in Italy, and asked about the regulation, and they said it was all hand regulated. The target with the gun had the bullets within an inch of each other.

Sabatti engraving was nice, wood ok, I think if you wanted to buy one, and couldnt spend 10k, I would go for it.

i think we are all looking forward to a shooting report on this one.

best

peter

From what I know these rifles are unreliable just that if you can get them to fire 10 or 10 times you are pretty damn lucky

quote:

Originally posted by Oryxhunter1983:
Well guys a friend of mine ordered one down to our local cabelas, and we went and played with it on saturday. I handled great, fit well. I liked the safety, easy on/off.

We handled a Kriegoff, and just working the safety on and off was a nightmare.

Also, my friend called the Sabatti people in Italy, and asked about the regulation, and they said it was all hand regulated. The target with the gun had the bullets within an inch of each other.

Sabatti engraving was nice, wood ok, I think if you wanted to buy one, and couldnt spend 10k, I would go for it.

Oryx,

Did your friend "Buy It"?

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
From what I know these rifles are unreliable just that if you can get them to fire 10 or 10 times you are pretty damn lucky

How do you know?

a few sources in the industy if you could get out easy one a double i doubt I would of spent 20 k on a 500-465 holland and holland that was in dire need to a restore and sunk close to 40 so far into it of my time restoreing it but thats another story it will be at our booth at the sci show

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
From what I know these rifles are unreliable just that if you can get them to fire 10 or 10 times you are pretty damn lucky

How do you know?

I've heard some things as well about them, but in PM's and emails
so can't publish them on a forum.

I will wait and see what the go is with them from someone who buys
one and shoots it.

Even though Sabatti make barrels for alot of others, that doesn't give
them that much of a cost advantage over others so be able to bring them
in this cheap without something or some corner being cut. That's my HO
until proven otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
a few sources in the industy if you could get out easy one a double i doubt I would of spent 20 k on a 500-465 holland and holland that was in dire need to a restore and sunk close to 40 so far into it of my time restoreing it but thats another story it will be at our booth at the sci show

Holy syntax mind warp, batman......my head hurts now.

AZguy,
Ok, so my friend wanted to call the sabatti guys and ask them about the strength of the steel they used? (this was something that I didnt think about it) However, he liked it very much, and I believe he is going to buy one.

He did say, Sabatti makes all their own barrels, thats one thing I left off my first post.

Well, all this talk about "well the other people in the industry say it's junk". Well of course they do, same thing that the mom and pap hamburger joints said when Mcdonalds came to town. I don't know how anyone can pay the ridiculus prices for these guns, 20-30 thousand? I understand there are some that are RARE, and have great value, but new rifles?? It's these companies trying to control the product, and inflating the price.

So they will continue to bash any competition that targets the middle of the road high end consumer. I hope they are successful in their venture.

Norton Im sorry my sentence construction is not up to par with what you consider acceptable .

quote:

Well, all this talk about "well the other people in the industry say it's junk". Well of course they do, same thing that the mom and pap hamburger joints said when Mcdonalds came to town. I don't know how anyone can pay the ridiculus prices for these guns, 20-30 thousand? I understand there are some that are RARE, and have great value, but new rifles?? It's these companies trying to control the product, and inflating the price.

You pay for quality that would be like saying a ford is the same quality as a Rolls Royce because in essence they both will get you from point a to b which is not the case.

if the company that is now making M21's can do that with nice wood for $3K, why can't a set of rifle barrels be fitted and regulated for $2200 more? These prices might be low ball the first six months to get somebody to buy them.

I am willing to reserve judgement until I can fondle one.

Rich

Express, I understand that, however, there becomes a point where some people don't give a rip for gold inlays and fancy carving and just want to be able to shoot a double. This is what I believe sabatti is going after. Sure it might not have the "umbrellas in the door" (a reflection on rolls royces) but if it fires a bullet with a certain amount of accuracy, they it essentially fills it's purpose.

Not everyone can drive a rolls, much less spend 10k on a rifle, hell at 5k they are still not going to be mainstream. Will it be a rolls, no but they aren't trying to market it as one.

Understandable and accepted like I said from people who have shot them they do not function 100% of the time . If it was as easy as its made out to be there would be more then one company produceing sxs double rifles in safari calibers