Bill74

Re 9.3x74R brass.
I weighed some of my original Norma cases, they are @ 198 grains.

The new batch of Norma cases [after the RWS merger, RUAG owns both of them now], weigh @ 220 grains.
Some old RWS cases weigh @ 220 grains.

So it looks like RWS has thickened the Norma cases. How much do your cases weigh?

I weighed cases without primers.

heres a groups pic for every one.

Looks like a rough bunch. I'd like to sic em on Osama.

N E 450 No2,
just got home & put one of the fired cases from camp cooley on the scale,it weighed in at 220 grs,so it looks like your theory is dead on,the cases have been improved!

A real Rogue's Gallery, if I every saw one!

Great picture Frank!

PWN 375,
Your "STORY" of the doubling had me laughing out loud, thanks for the artistic writting display!!!

NE 450 #2,

Thank you for looking out for a rifle for me, I don't know if I will ever make a decision.

I am sure as soon as I buy something I will want to trade into something else...

Here, is 700nitro's picture, reposted

I shot Rusty's new 404 bolt rifle and must say I found the 404 very plesant to shoot. Much more so than a 375 H&H also shot the same range session.
Anything thinking about a custom bolt rifle might take a look at the 404 Jeffery.

I also fired a few shots through New guys 375 H&H Chapuis. It was very accurate. Recoil not bad at all. About like a Chapuis 9,3x74R but the rifle is alittle heavier.

The 9,3x74R Chapuis is a very good hunting gun.
Light weight slim and trim and with enough power for even the big stuff, if well handled.
The one Bill74 got from Champlins had excellent wood. Several members were impressed after shooting his.


However I must say, for a big bore double a 450/400 is hard to beat. There were several at the Ranch. Both 3" and 3 1/4" doubles were fired.
They are much more plesant to shoot than the 450/470 class of guns.

I think it might be a good idea for the DRSS members at Camp Cooley last weekend to also give their impression of the rifles they shot, and /or handled.

I shot Bal's 9.3X74R Chapuis with a scope. Man what a nice rifle.

Jim's Heym 470 was next. What a nice double. especially when I shot some reduced cast bullet loads in the 470. That was FUN!

quote:

Thank you for looking out for a rifle for me, I don't know if I will ever make a decision.

I think you are right.

Per Tony's request, I'll start off with my thoughts on the .577:

The weight of the .577, 13 lbs 6 oz helped control the recoil for me. I have a Merkel .500 NE 3" that I have shot a bit, and I honestly think that the .500 NE has a faster, sharper "punch" on the shoulder.

However, the .577 has considerably more recoil overall - but a much larger "shove" as opposed to a "punch".

The barrels do rise up considerably after the shots are fired. After the first shot I hit my nose with my with back of my thumb during recoil. That wasn't the case after the first shot - I think that was the anticipation of the unknown of the first round of a new rifle.

All in all, I enjoyed shooting the .577 a lot. But, you have to prepare for the recoil. The articulated front trigger is a must - I didn't get my trigger finger bit when shooting the read trigger.

I really liked Perry's .500/416 Keighoff. After shooting the .500 and .577, it felt like a puppy dog on my shoulder.

As I mentioned to Perry, the one thing I didn't like about the gun was the hinge of the action. As I tried to extract the spent shells, I opened the action, but the action didn't stay open the entire way. It "closed a bit" which cased me not to be able to pull the spent shells out of the chamber.

Also, the Kreighoff did not fit me as well as my .500 and .577. With a natural point of aim, the rear sight was aligned with the very bottom of the front ramp sight. If there was a little more drop of the stock, it would have fit me well.

However, by just forcing my cheek further on the stock brought the sights in alignment. I found this to be true on Keith's new Krieghoff too.

I really liked al's (470CapstickA2's) .475 NE. What a joy to shoulder and shoot. The recoil is very mild (compared to the other guns I shot) and the gun has a good fit and balance to it.


I also shot bobc's Hollis in .450/400. It felt like a .22 going off in my hands. The gun was sleek, sexy and shouldered great in my arms.

Bob's brass had some rim thickness issues so we had trouble closing the chambers. I think a .450/400 may be on my list for a future DR purchase!

NE450#2, asked for impressions of rifles fired.

9.3x74R, Chapuis, very pleasant with a mild recoil.

450-400, Hollis, Thanks Rusty, I will gladly "store" your Hollis anytime, long term. Please send the dies and load data with it.

450NE#2, Tony, I found both of your loads usefull,(500gr,350gr). This is another rifle I will make the same "offer" as Rusty's. Recoil with the 500's was very easy to control.

500NE, What a stopper. I have shot this round on two different occations. I found the recoil to be the snappiest of any NE round yet. But, if I needed a stopper in close cover, I would be happy to have it in my hands.

577NE, Firing this round was a surprize. Not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. Lots of recoil, but just a big shove. I would love to drop something really big with this one. Just to watch the inpact.

Hog Killer

ps: Thanks again for a great day.

I had really wanted to get close to a 500/416,Perry so generously let me shoot his,I did not find the safety to be a hindrance of any sort,the hinge as compared to other rifles does not open to the same degree,& I also had problems loading & extracting like 577NitroExpress pointed out,but when I pointed this out to Perry,he showed me the correct way of loading & extracting rounds,his motion was smooth & slick,I was impressed!
I think it is hard to judge a gun at first glance sometimes,you have to know your weapon! there proabably is a 500/416 somewhere in my future

I've written about the .577 "wetting" my glasses, so I'll discuss some others.

My favorite wasn't a double, but the take-down Winchester Model 1895 that Tony showed up with. It sure was a joy to shoot. The trigger was wonderful and the action slick. Popping steel targets in rapid order was as easy as boom, boom, boom.

I was pleasantly surprised with the Kriegoffs there. Engraving wasn't the clownish stuff you used to see and the fit and finish was just fine. They seemed as well regulated as any rifles there and I COULD get used to the cocking thingie, but don't know if I want to confuse my old mind since I shoot other "conventional" rifles so much.

The deal of the trip was the purchase of two pre-64 Model 70's for $1000, for the both. I'll let the purchaser tell the story, if he wishes, but dang, I wish I was offered the pair.

And JudgeG, you had the nicest O/U rimfire in camp

I must say that bobc has his 450/400 tuned pretty good.
I fired a right and a left with 3 different loads.
Bob will have to give the exact details, but if my memory is correct,one load was with a 300 grain bullet that had a velocity @ 1600 or 1700fps, another 300 grain at about 2200fps and of course the full power 400 grain load.
He had me flip up the first leaf for the lowest power load and I used the standing leaf for the other two. I pulled one shot slightly left but all the others couls be covered by the palm of my hand, we were shooting at about 40 yards I fired kneeling. Even the called flyer could be covered with the main group by my whole hand.

This shows the versatility of the 450/400's.

This was the second time I shot my newly scoped 450/400 3 1/4" double.
A couple of weeks ago I sighted it in at my deer lease at 58 yards so It would be on paper when I went to 100 yards.
I had not had a chance to shoot it before Camp Cooley. One night I went out with Allen, Bill74, and JudgeG for a pig hunt.

We spotted a coyote trotting through a field, [trotting, not running full speed], I exited the truck and with the reticle illuminated I tracked the coyote and fired a 400 grain Wooldeigh.
When I recovered from the recoil, still looking through the scope, all I saw was a tremendious cloud of dirt and dust. We went foward and found a dead coyote hit high in the front shoudler.
This is the smallest coyote I have ever seen.
His ears were HUGE but he weighed only about 2 or 3 lbs.
Looked more like a miniature African Wild Dog than a coyote.

A few minutes later we spotted some running pigs, Allen put the spot light on them and I fired the right bbl wounding one, he continued to run, Allen chasing him in the truck and I fired the left bbl knocking him down and killing him.

I know I probably could not have hit the little coyote without the scope, and with the pig it might be 50/50. But with the scope I knew when I pulled the trigger I had hits.

The scope has not hurt the handling of the double in the slightest. It is mounted very low.

EVERY 450/400 should be scoped.

It really adds to the effectiveness and usefullness of the rifle.

Wish I had done it the day I bought it.... but who knew?

New Made Doubles, my personal opinion.

In the past several years, I have had the chance to handle and fire the following new made Doubles, in alphabetical order, Blaser, Chapuis, Hambrusch, Heym, Krieghoff, Merkel, and Searcy.
I have also seen these same doubles fired by there owners and others.

ALL of them have been accurate.
I have never, in person, seen a problem with any of them.

I could hunt with any of them, after I had shot it a while, and become totally familar how it operated and handled.

At DSC and other places I had the opportunity to handle several of the same make and thus "supposedly" identical doubles. Each one of them feels a little different. When I have handles 4 or 5 ??? brand doubles, I usually find one or two, some times 3 that fit me good, the rest did not.

It is the same with a British Double, a few fit me great, some do not.

If you think a new made double is best for you then find one that fits you good and shoot it a lot. Then buy it a ticket to Africa.

When you are 6 yards from an elephant, it does not make any difference if you have a $200,000 Holland & Holland, or a less than $10,000 New Made Double, as long as you can throw it to your shoulder and BRAIN HIM.
You have done the DEED that NEEDS to be done.

Bill74
You might want to contact www.evolutionarms and ask them about a 450/400 3" Chapuis double rifle.
He has them made by the Chapuis Custom shop.
I handled one at the Dallas Safari Show and it handled like a dream.
It is made on the same frame as their 375 H&H.

I also want to handle a Heym 450/400

When, where, and how often does event get held? How does one get invited? This sounds like fun, I would be interested in participating in an event of this kind if possible.

quote:

Originally posted by Brain1:
When, where, and how often does event get held? How does one get invited? This sounds like fun, I would be interested in participating in an event of this kind if possible.

Brain1, all you have to do to get invited to a DRSS get together is, have, and shoot a double rifle, and want to come on up to Camp Cooley Ranch at Ridge, Texas! Just give Rusty, Tony, or me a PM, and you will be added to the list!
Welcome!

There were people at camp Cooley who do not own a double. I believe you are welcome to come even if you have yet to make the jump into the double rifle world. If fact, I think if you are considering the pruchase of a DR...you should make it a point to attend. There is no other opportunity I am aware of where you can hold and shoot so many types of rifles. It will give you an opportunity to see first hand what works best for your needs.

Brian1:

I was the guy who took the lead in organizing this past DRSS weekend. We don't really have a "list" of members who we contact when we put this together like Mac said. What we do is coordinate the next weekend hunt in the Double Rifle forum, similar to this thread:

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/760101804/m/267107184

We are already starting to plan the next one, asking the people who attended this previous hunt what month they would like to have the next one.

Right now it looks like the consensus is that January 2007 will be the PREFERED month for the next hunt.

But there are a lot of factors, such as the camp we go to and the availability of the camp, that will depend on when and where it will be.

So the best think I can recommend is that you check back on this forum (double rifles) often.

Another thing, we do not turn people away from attending. This past trip, there were only beds in the lodge at Camp Cooley for 12 people. Anyone above 12 people had to either bring a bed/blow up mattress to sleep in the lodge, or had to get a room at the local hotel. They did everything that the group did, with the exception of have a bed in the lodge.

Right now new_guy and I are looking into a few possible ranches.

When we get some hard information, I'll start another post.

I hope you can make the next weekend hunt! It is a GREAT time!

A great time was there for the partaking. I learned how to shoot a double. How to hold it properly and had a great time watching and talking and listening to others on the subject of doubles.
Here is the photo from above. I orignally posted it on a different thread. I will be posting other photos as soon as I sort out the rest of my stuff.

My goodness, it's weird how some of the same same rogues turn up at this things...

Very Front
FLA30-06, Invader66, Rusty
next
Dean, Tiggertate, Hogkiller
Mike, Jeffeosso, Gringo Cazador, Ramrod, (fla's friend) , Les Brooks, Larry Lindstrom

back
Forrest B, Glen71? BobC, 400 Nitro Express

(woodstock from spring before last)

I have a Merk in 9.3. I have passed on a few extrodinary deals on heavies, I am now kicking myself in the butt. I would love to come to Cooley and shoot.

Here are some addiitional photographs.

Another view of the 577 Searcy shared by 577 Nitro Express and Doc 52


Close up



The rifles used throughout the weekend.
Heym 470, Edwinson Green and sons 450 NO. 2, London Sporting Park LTD 450 3.25, Chapuis 93x74, Winchester 1895 takedown .405 WCF,
Coggie 450 3.25,
Charles Osbourne 450-400 3.25, Searcy .470, Searcy .577, A Hollis and Sons 400 3inch, Heym .470, Merkel 500, Coggie .475 3.25, A Hollis 400 3inch, Krieghoff .470, Krieghoff .470, Merkel 500, 400-360, Blaser .375 sahari, Blaser .308, Vickers Armstrong 404 J., Coggie 400 3.25, Remington 30S .458 Lott, F. Kettner 9.3x72, Marlin 30-30

Please send me a PM if I need to correct the ID.
Frank


The Bullets:

Right to Left:
454 Casul, 45 ACP, .308 Win, 9.3x72R, 9.3x74R, .360 N>E> 450-400 3.25 in .408, 450-400 3.25 in .411, another in .411, another in .411, 450-400 3inch NE, 500-416, .458 Lott, 450 NO 2NE, .470NE, another .470 NE, another .470 NE, .475 NE, .500 NE 3inch, .577 NE, 700NE

All in all quite the selection.

Once again Frank, Dang nice pictures!

With the photos of the guns, shouldn't it read:

Double Rifle Shooters Society ?

here are two groups from @125 yds.

A L&R from 400 Nitro Express' 400 Jeffery and a L&R from my HEYM 470 NE.

Nice target New_guy! BTW, If I haven't told you beofre, I appreciate all your efforts in making our latest Double Rifle Shooters Society hunt a great success! Everyone invlolved did a fantastic job!

I must say I was present when new guy and 400 Nitro shot at that target at about 125 yards or so.
That is a very hard target to shoot with iron sights. Well done.

I have never seen newguy shoot at game, but I can tell he is a fine shot.

However, 400 Nitro is one pig killing Double rifle shooter. I have seen him kill pigs with his 400/360 and his 450/400 3".

PS. Do not let Rusty around your favorite eland... unless you want to eat him for dinner.

quote:

A great time was there for the partaking. I learned how to shoot a double. How to hold it properly and had a great time watching and talking and listening to others on the subject of doubles.

I have just bought my first double, but living in Norway, I doubt if I will be able to find the time and money to attend the next DRSS shoot-out. Can someone explain this to me, please?

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:
here are two groups from @125 yds.

A L&R from 400 Nitro Express' 400 Jeffery and a L&R from my HEYM 470 NE.

Here was the sequence for that shot by new_guy.
Frank

isn't he aiming a little right of the dark tahoe?

Was the Tahoe charging? Did the first shot turn him? Was it a leathal hit?

Would a shot just below the bright headlight be a good choice for shot placement?