came across this on gunbroker. anyone ever heard of Gravex?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=109602440

I believe that's the same rifle Tom Ondrus has for sale for 35K on guns international, same pict. The seller on gunbroker is "NR" . I suspect it is a fraud.

yeah i figured as much. he also has a westley richards 577 ne for 10k. just wondered if anyone knew anything about the maker or not.

YES that is Tom's gun. Anyone looking at this ad be warned this is a FRAUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bike Rider

THE AD ON GUNBROKER IS A FRAUD. I HAVE NO IDEA HOW HE GOT MY PICTURES FROM GUNSINTERNATIONAL.COM.

AT THAT PRICE EVEN A POOR MAN LIKE ME WOULD BUY ONE !

CHEERS, TOM ONDRUS

Tom-

who is gravex? i have never heard of them.

I sure hope someone contacts the new "owner."

Bet he'll be surprised if his check is already in the mail.

you saw that too, Mr Sells? someone got taken. i asked the seller a question, and this was his reply-

"Hello,

I am ready to sell my item for 7000 USD$.Hope you are a serious buyer and everything will work perfect.To start transacction i need first your full shipping information;
The deal will be complete using GunBroker and SquareTrade services,is the world safety and faster way.

Please confirm you full indentity so i can contact the afiliate program and they will confirm you all details and information you need.
I am ready to ship my item a soon as possible! Wait your email!
Transport cost will be 90$ including all taxes and insurance!


Thank You"

kinda weird, all i asked for was who is gravex, i had never heard of them before and wanted to know more about them. that was his reply??? i figured it was a scam, especially when i saw a westley richards 577ne for sale for 10k. have you ever even heard of this Gravex? of course, i'm sure they are not as nice as a heym! talk to ya later!

Anyone know how to stop these guys? I tried contacting the site, but it's just a runaround.

I hope they put these guys in jail.

quote:

Originally posted by ftondrus:
THE AD ON GUNBROKER IS A FRAUD. I HAVE NO IDEA HOW HE GOT MY PICTURES FROM GUNSINTERNATIONAL.COM.

AT THAT PRICE EVEN A POOR MAN LIKE ME WOULD BUY ONE !

CHEERS, TOM ONDRUS

Once photos are on the internet, they are simply copied. Your photos are not your own anymore!!

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Anyone know how to stop these guys? I tried contacting the site, but it's just a runaround.

Put a listing on there Similar to the other one saying it is a fraud so if someone searches for one of them, they will also see the other one and be warned.

And if GA or whoever runs the listings doesn't seem interested, then start posting on forums etc that XYZ is full of fraudulent listings
and the owners won't do anything about it.

They soon will once it is noticed that all
these negative postings are occuring on internet boards.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

...then start posting on forums etc that XYZ
is full of fraudulent listings and the owners
won't do anything about it.

They soon will once it is noticed that all
these negative postings are occuring on
internet boards.

Definitely this would work!

ok. we all realize the asshole who was on gunbroker is a fraud, can anyone tell me who here has HEARD OF GRAVEX??????

His buyer had this feedback to leave.

brockman A+(10) 09/09/2008 05:36 PM
F: Proud to be an non paying buyer FRUAD FRAUD SELLER IS TRYING TO SELL A RIFLE OWNED BY SOMEONE ELSE.Fake address Fake phone located in East Euorpe BEWARE!

GRAVEX IS AN UNKNOWN MAKER BECAUSE THEY ARE A SMALL SHOP WHO BUILDS DOUBLE RIFLES FOR OTHER EUROPEAN AND ENGLISH MAKERS. THEY ARE IN ESSENCE A PRIVATE LABEL MANUFACTURER.THEY DON'T SELL UNDER THEIR OWN NAME.
VERY SELDOM IS A RIFLE ENCOUNTERED WITH THEIR NAME ON IT. THEY SEEM TO ONLY BUILD DOUBLE RIFLES - NO SHOTGUNS WITH GRAVEX HAVE BEEN REPORTED.

INQUIRIES MAILED TO THE ADDRESS ON THE CASE LABEL ARE NOT ANSWERED , NEITHER ARE THEY RETURNED BY THE POST SO THEY MUST BE DELIVERED. MAYBE THEY DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH....... OR MAYBE THEY JUST WANT TO REMAIN AS THEY ARE - A PRIVATE LABEL MAKER.

THERE ARE RUMORS THAT GRAVEX WERE SOMEHOW CONNECTED WITH ARIETTA BUT WITHOUT SPEAKING SPANISH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TRY TO FIND OUT INFORMATION ABOUT GRAVEX.

THEIR NAME IS MENTIONED " IN PASSING " IN SEVERAL BOOKS BUT NO PARTICULARS ARE EVER GIVEN.

THE QUALITY IS EVIDENT WHEN YOU EXAMINE THE WORKMANSHIP. THE FIT & FINISH IS SUPERB- AS GOOD AS ANY BEST QUALITY RIFLE. ANYONE WITH INFORMATION ABOUT GRAVEX PLEASE CONTACT ME - THANKS.

TOM ONDRUS 814 859 0008 ftondrus@hotmail.com

ftondrus,

To make it harder for fraudsters to hijack photos you are using to sell stuff you need to get your name/mark in the picture where they can't crop it out, then they'll steal somebody else's pics.

Any good digital camera has the capability of puting your trade mark/ or copyright on the photo, but if it doesn't come with that software installed it can be baught after market, to work in most cameras! It is a good idea to copyright any picture you are posting to sell something!

The guy who bought that rifle is "Brockman". I hope that Jim Brockman didn't just get screwed.

SORRY, BUT NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD EVER BELIEVE YOU COULD BUY SUCH A RIFLE FOR THAT KIND OF PRICE.

ONLY FOLKS WHO BELIEVE IN THE EASTER BUNNY, TOOTH FAIRY, SANTA ETC WOULD DELUDE THEMSELVES.

IF " BROCKMAN " BOUGHT IT HE FULFILLS THE SAYING
"A FOOL AND HIS MONEY ARE SOON PARTED"

Brockman didn't buy the rifle, he is smarter than that..He punched the by now button and found out right away it was a fraud deal..

BTW, Gravex has been around for a long time, I think they go back to about 1920..I have seen a number of Gravel double shotguns with fine engraving and they were quality plus. Jack Belk has a dismembered Gravex 16 ga. that he has been building for the last 30 or so years, maybe some day he'll get around to finishing it, it will be a first class shotgun for sure.

ATKINSON,

thanks for the info on gravex . you are the first person who has seen a shotgun made by gravex.

the rifles with their name on them are also rare as they are a private label maker building best quality rifles for the european and english trade..

quote:

Once photos are on the internet, they are simply copied. Your photos are not your own anymore!!

Actually, they remain your photos under copyright. This may give you standing to take a fraud complaint to the police, which will probably be good for all potential victims.