I guess you are not going to answer this simple question, then, huh?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
This is the third posting by Mr. Vella in an attempt to smear me. So I have to respond again.


The tone of Mr. Vella's emails to me was uniformly condescending and vitriolic. Starting with the first one. I believe I kept a civil tone in all me replies to him, regardless.

Russ,
a very simple question, did YOU send the case to the buyer of the CASE? Anything other than "yes" means you screwed the pooch. Period.

If you used the man's case to send to a third party, YOU screwed up.

If the third party did a poor job packing the case.. YOU screwed up

that it is "low value" to you in terms of selling dollars doesn't change the material fact that the BUYER expected decent handling.


You have screwed the pooch

jeffe

Ah the power of the internet! Screw someone and word gets around fast via the internet. Not that way years ago but now its the great equalizer.
Hope this was posted on NE and other forums where other potential customers visit.
It takes years to build a reputation and one screw up to ruin it. The seller should offer to give you all your money back, shipping and customs fees.

Please keep us informed how this turns out.

quote:

I offered to refund Mr. Vella"s money but he refused. Anything we sell can be returned for any reason or no reason, for a refund, except brand new items which can only be returned if we ship the wrong item. (He also scornfully refused my offer of a store credit as a goodwill gesture for the delay..perhaps a clue to his temperament).

Mr.Gould, I challenge you, here in an open forum, to post from your "Sent Items" file the message in which you made this offer to me. Such a post would have to be a "Cut and Paste", complete with addresses and date/time stamps, the same as I have done here, to show their authenticity. I do not wish to get into a mud-slinging match here. I, personally, despise people who use the anonimity of the internet to make statements which would earn them a "knuckle sandwich" if made when face-to-face. However, I will say here in public, that your statement in the quotes above, is untrue. AT NO TIME, until after I posted this caveat, did you offer ANYTHING, except a $25.00 credit against any future purchase.

quote:

To 577, you have already played that card if I recall correctly. You can only play it once by definition.

From the horse's mouth, his problem with customer service isn't an isolated incident.

I have lots of decks of cards at my disposal. Do you have enough customers at yours if this fire keeps burning?

Hey Russ,

STOP DIGGING!!!!!

Rich
DRSS

Mr. Gould:

Statements and observations of a factual nature are not personal attacks. My comments are a fair representation of the persona you present to the public at large. Perhaps it would behoove you to take some of these observations to heart. No one is right 100% of the time.

A example of a personal attack would be something like this:

quote:

From the horse's mouth, his problem with customer service isn't an isolated incident.

577Nitro Express - I believe you have the wrong end of the horse.

Now that would be personal.

Russ,

As a friendly suggestion, I would recommend refunding the customer's full purchase price, shipping and customs fees. He received a damaged case, although he paid for one in excellent condition. If you make this right, you will walk away with a black eye. If you do not, then this will simmer in your business reputation like a malignant tumor.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Hey Russ,

STOP DIGGING!!!!!

Rich
DRSS

I think Russ just rented a back-hoe...

I still cant believe Russ used the case to ship guns first. Store credit is a slap in the face of anyone. When someone has f....d me , the last thing I'd ever do is buy from them again.

I don’t have a horse in this race but I can feel the arrogance dripping from the post. How can someone think it is ok to use someone’s personal property (he accepted payment) as their own with out permission just because it is convenient. And now is incensed that the damaged party won’t accept a $25.00 store credit as compensation.
I don’t know if refunding all Ron vella’s out of pocket expenses will cleanse this from peoples memory.
Well then again arrogance has its own reward.
Ron not to be critical but in the future it might be a good idea to take some pictures a cheap disposable camera can be worth it’s weight.
Bill

Gentlemen, lets let this die a death it deserves! The damage is done, and so just let the chips fall where they may. The cost, IMO,if it were me, is a fair price to find out what kind of person this dealer is, sort of like insurance! BYE!

Rus and Ron.
What is fair???
What would be the proper setttlement???

How about a 50% refund???

Yesterday, on the DoubleGunBBS, I resolved this matter with Mr. Gould. At that time, I promised him that I would place a notice to that effect on each BBS where I posted this caveat. Despite the fact that his parting salvo to me was anything but amicable, and has left a bad taste in my mouth that will not soon go away, I am fulfilling my promise to him and now consider this matter closed for good.

Maybe we should coin a new term for this type of interchange on a BBS/Forum as "Suicide by internet"?

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
Maybe we should coin a new term for this type of interchange on a BBS/Forum as "Suicide by internet"?

I don't see it that way. There are more new people with new money coming along every day. A quick google search will bring up Russ's website. Do you think he'd volunteer that he screwed Ron in the past? No. So he continues to do business and make more profit off one gun sale than 100 used gun cases like the one Ron bought.

I'm sure many of you remember the Pierre von Tonder\Ray Atkinson\Sheephunter episode. It was front page news for a very long time. Do any of you think PVT or Ray went out of business because of the way Sheephunter was treated? No way!!! And, sad to say, neither will Russ Gould of Canby, Oregon.

any fool will "forgive and forget...". A wise man "...forgives, but never forgets...". This has cost him any business from me and a warning to anybody who asks my opinion of doing business with him.

Rich
DRSS
what's that song..."My, my, my, once bitten twice shy...".

quote:

Originally posted by ron vella:
Yesterday, on the DoubleGunBBS, I resolved this matter with Mr. Gould. At that time, I promised him that I would place a notice to that effect on each BBS where I posted this caveat. Despite the fact that his parting salvo to me was anything but amicable, and has left a bad taste in my mouth that will not soon go away, I am fulfilling my promise to him and now consider this matter closed for good.

Ron,

Could you please provide us a link to that forum?

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
Maybe we should coin a new term for this type of interchange on a BBS/Forum as "Suicide by internet"?

I don't see it that way. There are more new people with new money coming along every day. A quick google search will bring up Russ's website. Do you think he'd volunteer that he screwed Ron in the past? No. So he continues to do business and make more profit off one gun sale than 100 used gun cases like the one Ron bought.

I'm sure many of you remember the Pierre von Tonder\Ray Atkinson\Sheephunter episode. It was front page news for a very long time. Do any of you think PVT or Ray went out of business because of the way Sheephunter was treated? No way!!! And, sad to say, neither will Russ Gould of Canby, Oregon.

I have to agree that in general, what goes on here (or on other similar webforums) most likely does not have much to say in when it comes to business. We all need to remember that the majority or hunters/shooter do not frequent such websites, and at the most read a couple of different hunting/shooting magazines. So they wouldn't know about the Ray Atkinson/Sheephunter fiasco, or other scams that have been exposed on AR and elsewhere.

However, we who do frequent these forums should at least keep such episodes filed in the back of our minds for our own future reference. And we should not hesitate to bring them up when such topics are discussed with friends who don't participate on the internet, and thus are not aware of such scams.

Russ Gould will certainly not be getting any positive mention from me after seeing how he dealt with Ron on this deal...

quote:

ron vella

My hat is still off to you.

I have had the experience before of getting a bad product and then being told by the seller that he isn't really interested in making me whole because he is just too busy and it isn't worth his time. NEVER AGAIN does not begin to describe my feelings to this day about this "businessman."

If Mr Gould believes this will not cost him, well if nothing else, it confirmed that I need to eliminate him from my list of potential outfitter/booking agents for my future African safari plans.

Granted, that's all we have done so far is a few PM's about this, but I won't risk hard earned money taking my wife and daughter to Africa through someone that exhibits this manner of business ethics.

quote:

As a friendly suggestion, I would recommend refunding the customer's full purchase price, shipping and customs fees. He received a damaged case, although he paid for one in excellent condition. If you make this right, you will walk away with a black eye. If you do not, then this will simmer in your business reputation like a malignant tumor

I made exactly that offer on doublegun bbs, not believing or conceding that the case was damaged en route, but in order to expose what I believe to be Mr. Vella's true agenda. As I expected, he declined the offer stating that he would keep the case as he had customized the layout to his specific needs. That, I believe, was his intention from day 1, calling into doubt the sincerity of his fuss about the lining.

I will cite a few facts for the record.

Mr. Vella had the right to return the case upon receipt, without reason, for a refund of his purchase price; however, he chose to keep it and instead cited a list of defects and a $100 estimated cost to repair them, implying that he expected me to send him a check for $100. In the same note, he cited the $97 he paid in import duty on the case, as his reason for not returning the case. (It's probably possible to get your duty back if you return an item to the sender but I am not sure of this).

Further, where an item is damaged in transit, under our terms of sale he had the right to return it upon receipt for a refund of his entire payment (incl. round trip shipping). But before an item can be returned, we are obliged to report the damage to the carrier (UPS) and give them the opportunity to inspect it. But he never mentioned any damage to the exterior of the case at the time, and I was 99% sure there was no damage to the lining, other than the one defect noted in the listing and a few minor scuffs commensurate with the fact that this was a USED guncase offered at a discount to the price of a new one. Had he requested insurance information, or had he sent me a picture of the damage that proved me wrong, I would have obviously revised my position, but to date, no picture has been provided and he never indicated any intention to lodge any insurance claim.

Had I had sufficient cause to do so, I would have had UPS out there immediately with an insurance claim for the alleged damage, as the case was fully insured throughout and UPS was the only carrier. It's also likely that if he elected to do so, I would have had him go ahead and get a local repair, instead of sending it back, which cost I would have recovered from UPS and passed through to him.

Mr. Vella did not avail himself of any of the three avenues he had to return the case for a refund: as a straight return, as a damaged item return, and under the terms of my recent offer cited above.

If you buy something from us and you elect to keep it, we consider the sale final and all claims moot. I think you will find that 99% of vendors take the same position.

I believe today, even more strongly than I believed 3 months ago, that Mr. Vella's intention from day 1 was to restore and/or customize the case; and that he was looking for me to share or bear the costs of that restoration, thinking perhaps that his outrage over the one week shipping delay (which I did and do acknowledge was fully my fault) would cow me into doing so.

His motivation for smearing me now, three months later, wherever he can get folks to listen is not clear to me. Perhaps he is a friend of tksims, the guy who won't take back the cracked Lefever gun or the pitted and non-original Parker gun he misrepresented to me, which facts I published with pics on the doublegun bbs. It's clear that he no longer wants any money from me. Doing so would be awkward at this stage. So I have to conclude that this is some form of vindication thing for (and far out of proportion to) the damages he claims to have suffered.

Incidentally, by my count between the two BBs that I monitored, in thousands and thousands of viewings, the score was:

1 person reported an actual "problem transaction" with me, namely Mr. Vella. I have been in business for 7 years. (NitroX, your implication that you had refused to do business with me previously due to a "service problem" is a lie, you played that card a few months back because you did not like the fact that I had the gumption to disagree with a view you expressed on this forum. You and I have never had any business dealings whatsoever).

5 persons cited positive experiences with actual transactions with me. (Packrattus, JAS, Dick Howard, and two others on doublegun bbs whose names I don't recall.)

4 persons who had never done business with me nevertheless ended up in my camp (abner, homeless joe, one other on doublegun bbs, and a person who indicated his support by email).

Peter cited the fact that I declined his offer to purchase a new (but old stock) Tikka 512 9.3x74R double rifle at a discount to the asking, which in turn was at a discount to the current retail price. I am not sure whether this was an example of a good or bad interaction. I will put it down as neutral.

About twenty posters (someone else can count them) stated that while they had never done business with me, they never would. Included in this number are some folks that I have disagreed with in this forum or other forums in the past (400 nitro, utah shotgunner, nitrox, jeffe, that polite Australian gentleman, idaho (?maybe) and probably one or two others.) To those I say you are welcome. To the rest, I say I fully understand why you as consumers would see things from that point of reference. If it helps, I will make a special policy for you folks. Buy something, return it for any reason, and I will go beyond our normal policy and pay for your round trip as well.

Mr Vella, of course, is still not happy. I suppose he expected me to fall on my sword in public over the alleged damage. No such luck, apart from my admission that my decision to ship the case indirectly was a stupid and inconsiderate one. I don't believe the case was damaged or that it was not as described, and even if it were, his insistence on keeping it makes this whole thing a collossal waste of everyone's time. (Except for those who delight in this kind of stuff..).

First rule when you find yourself in a hole - STOP DIGGING!

This has been suggested before but you didn't listen then and you have done yourself no favors. Try it this time, it will help.

JPK

quote:

About twenty posters (someone else can count them) stated that while they had never done business with me, they never would.

Make that twenty one.

Unbelievable.

How any rational person could even begin to think that UPS would cover a claim where the item in question was out of their possession (the person who bought 2 shotguns) is beyond me.

Mr. Vella, after posting on a few sites, finally received an offer for reimbursement. The offer was enough to settle things for him, and he declined the money. And he noted that he considered the matter to be closed.

And now he is being called a cheat and a liar (his motive all along was to screw the seller). Despite telling the seller to keep his money.

And anyone who weighed in in the negative against the seller did so because of past vendettas?

Like I said, unbelievable.

I have not posted anything, anywhere about this since February 13. I had hoped to let the matter die but Mr. Gould obviously does not. He states above:â€His motivation for smearing me now, three months later, wherever he can get folks to listen is not clear to me’.
I posted these notices because I promised him on November 22 that I would do so: †6) I have been a member for years of the Doublegun BBS, the Shooting Sportsman BBS, NitroExpress.com, HuntAmerica.com, COPT, and more recently Accurate Reloading. I promise you that once I have properly composed a notice, I intend to post a "Caveat Emptor" on all of these sites re Russell Gould and Network Retailing LLC.†When I give a man my word, I keep it. To suggest that I posted this because I am a friend of some seller who I’ve never heard of, from someplace in Kentucky that I’ve never heard of, makes about as much sense as anything else that this man has had to say. In case you have not read how this was concluded, or so I thought, on the doublegunbbs, here are my last posts:



Ron Vella
Member


Registered: January 13, 2002
Posts: 361
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada Gentlemen, I apologize for taking so long to close this matter. I have been at work since 6:30 this morning and our server has been down until about half an hour ago. I just got to read Mr. Gould’s offer about 15 minutes ago.

Russell Gould, I want to thank you publicly for making the offer of 100% reimbursement, which you have. Frankly, if you had offered in November to help defray my costs to repair the case, I would have gone away a happy customer, the California business notwithstanding. At any rate, you have now done what many here, including me, see to be the correct thing and I applaud you for having done so.

However, I have invested probably 25 to 30 hours of my spare time in gutting, relining, and re-configuring this case. While so doing, I have added fitted blocks for snap-caps as well as oil and Vaseline bottles. Also, I have widened the barrel channels so that the barrels are now held horizontally, rather than vertically, as in the original. So the case has been customized to the point where it is not anywhere near its original configuration. After all of the work that I have put into it, it is as near new as a used case can be and I am happy with it as it now stands.

I stated to you on November 22, and again here on February 10, that I was not looking for anything from you. I stand by those statements. For these reasons, and for the reasons, which Sharpsrifle has so very ably delineated above, I will keep the case.

I hereby accept your offer of a 100% refund as full and total restitution for all past inconveniences and costs.

Also, as quickly as it is possible to do so, I will post a message on the other BBS’s informing the readers of our settlement of this matter.


Thank you and good shooting,
Ron Vella.



doublegunhq
Member


Registered: December 28, 2004
Posts: 386
Loc: Canby OR "I stated to you on November 22, and again here on February 10, that I was not looking for anything from you. I stand by those statements. For these reasons, and for the reasons, which Sharpsrifle has so very ably delineated above, I will keep the case."

Mr. Vella,

I think you misunderstood my offer. I offered to make you absolutely whole for all your expenses including the duties you paid, and the cost of returning the case to me (which amounts to more than the cost of a new case as quoted somewhere else in this thread), but the case must be returned.

I did not offer to pay you $400 plus to restore, customize and keep the case you bought from me for $295. The day you got the case, you requested $100 from me to reline it and at that time I declined because I had no reason to believe that the case needed relining. This seems to be the consistent thread throughout. I now believe, even more strongly than I ever did, that it was your intention to at least restore and probably to customize the case from day 1.

I never hid from you or anyone else the fact that the case arrived a week later than it should have due to my error in judgement, and I did apologize up front for that and offered to essentially pay your shipping cost via a store credit. Would have sent you a check if you had countered with that, but since you are in CA and I am in US, checks are awkward.

Since you continue to decline to return the case, we are done.

Gentlemen, draw you own conclusions from Mr Vella's response.

I rest my "case".



#25457 - February 12, 2007 05:03 PM Re: Caveat Emptor re Russ Gould of doublegun hq [Re: doublegunhq]

Ron Vella
Member


Registered: January 13, 2002
Posts: 361
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada Mr Gould, It is you who misunderstands me. "I hereby accept your offer of a 100% refund as full and total restitution for all past inconveniences and costs." Perhaps this is ambiguous. What I mean is that I accept the offer itself, not the money!

What I mean is that the fact that you finally offered, is satisfaction enough for me. I keep the case, you keep your money. I'm not sure that it's possible to say it any more plainly than that! I tried my damnedest to close this thing with some civility. You just don't seem to want to stop casting aspersions on my character. Have a nice life!

Edited by Ron Vella (February 12, 2007 08:16 PM)
#25465 - February 12, 2007 05:45 PM Re: Caveat Emptor re Russ Gould of doublegun hq [Re: Ron Vella]

doublegunhq
Member


Registered: December 28, 2004
Posts: 386
Loc: Canby OR Yes I did misunderstand. I interpreted your response literally. I apologize for that. Can we call this quits now?
_________________________
doublegunhq.com
Fine English, American and German Double Shotguns and Rifles

Top



Why Mr. Gould now chooses, almost a week later, to reopen this matter is beyond me. I will leave it to rational readers to decide.

Also, here are a few of the many remarks made about Mr. Gould by others:

“What Mr Vella wants is nothing from the seller but only to make others aware of the way the seller conducts business. I am aware and I'm sure that many others will become aware. –Dick

Instead he chooses to continue bashing Ron and anyone whose opinion differs from his. Foolish

I would be LIVID if I'd paid for that case (thus, making it MINE), only to have the seller decide it was okay to use MY purchase as a shipping box for something else he'd sold to a third party... WITHOUT first advising me of the intention to do so and obtaining my permission. Mr. Gould, your seizure of this particular expedient solution to a shipping problem that was YOURS, not Mr. Vella's, was improper, to say the least, and it tells me you are someone with whom I would not care to do business. You blew it, in a BIG way, within the sphere of business ethics, not to mention ordinary common sense, technicalities of civil law notwithstanding.

That is the real problem. You are right and the whole world is wrong, and your attitude comes across, it can also go to H--- if they have a problem with your position. Not a reasoned position by any means. Type harder, you might still make your points.

I bought over 30 doubles last year and am on a pace to buy far more than that number this year. And like last year, I bought none from you and will keep that record intact. That will make both of us happy, I am sure.

I've never bought a gun from you either. After reading all of this I doubt I ever will, so add me to the list of future sales you won't have a chance to make.

I tell you the truth, if this is what happens as a result of a indefensible mistake by this dealer, I would be out of my mind to buy a high end gun from this gentleman

3 - Since Mr. Vella went through the hassle and grief of restoring this case, why should he now wish to return it to Mr. Gould? So Gould could sell it again, while Mr. Vella still needs a case?

4 - Mr. Vella in his initial post made it quite explicit that he did not want anything from Mr. Gould. He posted his experience for the rest of us to judge for ourselves, and I appreciate it.

The seller to admit to making a mistake, apologize and to only offer a refund or paltry ($25) store credit wasn't nearly enough here. A reputable merchant would have not only apologized and admitted the mistake, but would have believed the customer and offered the customer a full refund of not only the purchase price but also all of the customer's out of pocket expenses (shipping charges and customs he paid).

It is not the buyers fault for posting the facts here. And the basic facts are not really in dispute. You can try to split hairs about whether all the faults are that bad, but the major fault is yours for not getting a paid in full item to the buyer in as described shape. You did not commit fraud, like you are posting about the KY seller you got screwed by, but you also did not deliver the goods and then did not deal with it like a man and bite the bullet

I find no reason to doubt the locks or keys also. A new buyer would not be expected to replace the locking system. Maybe your CA buyer damaged them. Maybe you did not notice them being damaged. But do not expect us to believe the buyer replaced them unless there were bad. That is not a logical action and the buyer seems logical in his posting.

Personally, I don't care what the purchaser said to the seller but for the seller to sell the case, accept the money and then use that case to send guns to someone else and then expect the case to be properly packed and sent on its way is ridiculous and I don't care what the seller thinks is correct legally. I would have been pi$$ed off too and the 'customer from hell'. I only deal with reputable individuals and in this case (pun intended), it’s open and shut

If Ron had sent you photos of the interior tears, it would be no surprise to hear you accuse him of inflicting additional damage himself to milk you for the cost of relining to repair the "worn spot".

Mr. HQ has defended himself (over different topics) at length to his detriment on other BBS's.
It was unlikely I would have purchased from him due to those threads, now you can imagine the chances of me purchasing from him have dropped off a cliff.

I may have missed it in this long thread but that sounds like a hollow challenge. Mr. Vella has already stated he repaired the case and so you know it is unlikely that pictures would show anything.â€

BTT

WHY??????????

I wondered "why" also. However I missed this on its first go around and enjoyed it very much now.
Interesting how some business operate.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
I wondered "why" also. However I missed this on its first go around and enjoyed it very much now.
Interesting how some business operate.
Cal

Russ is showing his true colors again, badmouthing another outfitter and lying about his affiliation with HHK.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...2100588/m/9251030632

Now I see why he hasn't been replying to a customers inquiry about a gun. Probably for the best.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Little:
Now I see why he hasn't been replying to a customers inquiry about a gun. Probably for the best.

That is the reason I brought this and other posts back. Years ago a member made a post about Greg Hein that ended up saving me $6,000. He initially caught crap for his post until the truth came out.

Two things stand out:

1. After a customer purchased a case, the seller decided to use it in the course of his business to ship guns to another customer and he did so without the knowledge or consent of the new case owner. As if that wasn't egregious enough, the seller had another customer package and ship the case from a second location to the new owner.

2. The case purchaser claims he received the case in substantially worse condition than when he made the purchase. The seller claims the case was received in the same condition as when sold.

As to the first point, I cannot fathom any business operating that way. It is outrageous. There is absolutely no way to justify such behavior. There is a legal term for this. It is called conversion and is "the action of wrongfully dealing with goods in a manner inconsistent with the owner's rights."

As to the second point, the seller was neither at the final destination nor the intermediate shipping stop. He doesn't know anything about the condition of the case after he placed it into shipping. He must rely on what is reported to him by those who received it and he has received such a report. Yet he vehemently argues about the final condition of the case because, through some clairvoyance, he knows better the actual condition than the person who was physically there to receive it. What kind of thinking is that?

The best advice on this thread came from the long lost ISS. "Stop digging" was stated more than once yet the shovel was kept warm. I don't know Russ, but from his business practices and personal attacks (rather than quietly making it all good) it will stay this way.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
The best advice on this thread came from the long lost ISS. "Stop digging" was stated more than once yet the shovel was kept warm. I don't know Russ, but from his business practices and personal attacks (rather than quietly making it all good) it will stay this way.
Cal

I totally agree.

I am a bit behind the power curve...on the opposite side of the International Dateline.

This reminds me of the Great African FOO BIRD story...
The Great African FOO BIRD is a deadly avian seeking evil victims...one must be very vigilant and always avoid the feces of the Great African Foo Bird.... if the Foo Bird successfully targets you...you must NEVER wipe the feces from your head...that would be FATAL!!
" If the FOO SHITS, wear it!!"
More clearly- "If the Shoe Fits...Wear It!!"
The Leopard never changes its
Spots...
The Skunk Stripes Never Change

....on and on...

Cheers,

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
[QUOTE]As a friendly suggestion, I would recommend refunding the customer's full purchase price, shipping and customs fees. He received a damaged case, although he paid for one in excellent condition. If you make this right, you will walk away with a black eye. If you do not, then this will simmer in your business reputation like a malignant tumor

I made exactly that offer on doublegun bbs, not believing or conceding that the case was damaged en route, but in order to expose what I believe to be Mr. Vella's true agenda. As I expected, he declined the offer stating that he would keep the case as he had customized the layout to his specific needs. That, I believe, was his intention from day 1, calling into doubt the sincerity of his fuss about the lining.

I will cite a few facts for the record.

Mr. Vella had the right to return the case upon receipt, without reason, for a refund of his purchase price; however, he chose to keep it and instead cited a list of defects and a $100 estimated cost to repair them, implying that he expected me to send him a check for $100. In the same note, he cited the $97 he paid in import duty on the case, as his reason for not returning the case. (It's probably possible to get your duty back if you return an item to the sender but I am not sure of this).

Further, where an item is damaged in transit, under our terms of sale he had the right to return it upon receipt for a refund of his entire payment (incl. round trip shipping). But before an item can be returned, we are obliged to report the damage to the carrier (UPS) and give them the opportunity to inspect it. But he never mentioned any damage to the exterior of the case at the time, and I was 99% sure there was no damage to the lining, other than the one defect noted in the listing and a few minor scuffs commensurate with the fact that this was a USED guncase offered at a discount to the price of a new one. Had he requested insurance information, or had he sent me a picture of the damage that proved me wrong, I would have obviously revised my position, but to date, no picture has been provided and he never indicated any intention to lodge any insurance claim.

Had I had sufficient cause to do so, I would have had UPS out there immediately with an insurance claim for the alleged damage, as the case was fully insured throughout and UPS was the only carrier. It's also likely that if he elected to do so, I would have had him go ahead and get a local repair, instead of sending it back, which cost I would have recovered from UPS and passed through to him.

Mr. Vella did not avail himself of any of the three avenues he had to return the case for a refund: as a straight return, as a damaged item return, and under the terms of my recent offer cited above.

If you buy something from us and you elect to keep it, we consider the sale final and all claims moot. I think you will find that 99% of vendors take the same position.

I believe today, even more strongly than I believed 3 months ago, that Mr. Vella's intention from day 1 was to restore and/or customize the case; and that he was looking for me to share or bear the costs of that restoration, thinking perhaps that his outrage over the one week shipping delay (which I did and do acknowledge was fully my fault) would cow me into doing so.

His motivation for smearing me now, three months later, wherever he can get folks to listen is not clear to me. Perhaps he is a friend of tksims, the guy who won't take back the cracked Lefever gun or the pitted and non-original Parker gun he misrepresented to me, which facts I published with pics on the doublegun bbs. It's clear that he no longer wants any money from me. Doing so would be awkward at this stage. So I have to conclude that this is some form of vindication thing for (and far out of proportion to) the damages he claims to have suffered.

Incidentally, by my count between the two BBs that I monitored, in thousands and thousands of viewings, the score was:

1 person reported an actual "problem transaction" with me, namely Mr. Vella. I have been in business for 7 years. (NitroX, your implication that you had refused to do business with me previously due to a "service problem" is a lie, you played that card a few months back because you did not like the fact that I had the gumption to disagree with a view you expressed on this forum. You and I have never had any business dealings whatsoever).

5 persons cited positive experiences with actual transactions with me. (Packrattus, JAS, Dick Howard, and two others on doublegun bbs whose names I don't recall.)

4 persons who had never done business with me nevertheless ended up in my camp (abner, homeless joe, one other on doublegun bbs, and a person who indicated his support by email).

Peter cited the fact that I declined his offer to purchase a new (but old stock) Tikka 512 9.3x74R double rifle at a discount to the asking, which in turn was at a discount to the current retail price. I am not sure whether this was an example of a good or bad interaction. I will put it down as neutral.

About twenty posters (someone else can count them) stated that while they had never done business with me, they never would. Included in this number are some folks that I have disagreed with in this forum or other forums in the past (400 nitro, utah shotgunner, nitrox, jeffe, that polite Australian gentleman, idaho (?maybe) and probably one or two others.) To those I say you are welcome. To the rest, I say I fully understand why you as consumers would see things from that point of reference. If it helps, I will make a special policy for you folks. Buy something, return it for any reason, and I will go beyond our normal policy and pay for your round trip as well.

Mr Vella, of course, is still not happy. I suppose he expected me to fall on my sword in public over the alleged damage. No such luck, apart from my admission that my decision to ship the case indirectly was a stupid and inconsiderate one. I don't believe the case was damaged or that it was not as described, and even if it were, his insistence on keeping it makes this whole thing a collossal waste of everyone's time. (Except for those who delight in this kind of stuff..).[/QUOTE

You are missing the point: to use another person’s property without permission is dishonest. I don’t do business with dishonest people.

I have done business with Russ, bought one rifle and some other items, and have had nothing but a good experience doing so.

That said, I think this is a simple case of mismanaged expectations and less than stellar service and complaint response.
Add to that the irretrievable import duty (33%!!!) and the deal is a loser coming and going.

My point is that if we all aired the mishaps, misrepresentation, poor communication, missed time estimates, poor work, damaged items, crappy packaging etc. etc. etc. of all of the sellers, dealers and smiths we have been worked with and vowed to never do business with them again, there would scarcely be anybody left to do business with!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:

quote:

You still have time to fix this at minimum damage if you hurry...but you have to want to.

I offered him the full $50 he says he is out on this deal for the new felt etc but he continues to refuse it, just as he refused my original peace offering.

Let me be blunt

YOU
ARE
AN
IDIOT

Now, that YOU are in backup mode,

You really have shown us all that you feel justified in sending someone else's property along for a ride, to house a sale you made for what, 20K? and you feel annoyed that you got called on it?

STFU and send him a full refund.

jeffe

+1