Good Day To You:

I am posting this here because I assume many of you have been on guided hunts and can give an opinion. The hunt guided hunt can be anywhere in the world. The point is you hire an outfitter, guide etc. for your experience.

I myself have been on a few guided hunts in Germany and one in my home province of Alberta, Canada.

I have spent most of my life hunting deer and moose in the wilds of Alberta.

A good friend of mine, who has been to Africa to hunt three times, and I got into a discussion on what is a hunter.

I say if you are out stalking, tracking, setting up a blind in the pursuit of shooting an animal, that is hunting; therefore, you are hunting. If you hire someone to track the game, set you up in a blind, tell you when and where on the animal to shoot, that is a guided hunt and you are just there to shoot or, pull the trigger. You are not hunting, you are the shooter or, just shooting.

My friend took umbrage with my description as I am sure it offended his sense of self-worth as a mighty hunter in Africa slaying beasts. He was the mighty hunter, tracking and killing, not the johnny who paid money to be guided about and told which animals he can shoot.

As I said earlier, I have been on guided hunts and would not consider myself the hunter. Just the guy who paid to be the shooter. The tracker, the ph, they are the hunters. I am the shooter.

What say you on this matter? Have I got it wrong? Your comments are, as always, appreciated.

Kind regards,

Carpediem

I hunted moose in Newfoundland as a guided hunt. there was another hunter in the camp along with his guide. He didn't bring binos and when I asked him about it, he said it was their(guides) job to find the moose. We were together some of the time, and sometimes not. I never saw him even spend much time looking around. I hunted no different than if I was by myself other than listening to my guide. Spotted my moose before my guide, his guide or him. He never got a moose.

Hello envy and thanks for that. Interesting take on the guided hunt. Sounds like you had fun.

Unfortunately I often see this argument used by less informed individuals who simply can't afford to pay for travelling or guided hunt costs. That said, I agree with the observations about the moose hunt and have had similar discussions with guides and PHs while I am out doing what I love to do. I think they pick up on who they have as a client very quickly.

I'd opine that if you go on a guided hunt just to follow the guide and pull the trigger when they tell you to, you're a shooter. If you go on a guided hunt and use it as a learning experience of how you get to the point you pull the trigger, and apply your own knowledge and thought process in collaboration with your guide/PH, you've hunted.

Whichever one chooses is not a matter for me to concern myself. If its legal (and sometimes the use of a guide is compulsory) and an ethical hunt, it makes no matter to me what someone else does on their own dime. For my money, I'm there to learn. Every lesson gets applied to the next stalk or hunt. It makes me more aware, and more involved in my own experiences.

Why the hell did you post this on the Double Rifles forum?

Thank you for your opinions.
Brandon, well said. I never looked at it in that light.
Michael, thank you for your thoughtful question on the subject. I refer you back to my first paragraph, “I am posting this here because…”. I am sorry if I was being to vague.

Kind regards,
Carpediem

Michael, if you can offer a better location I am all for it.

Kind regards,
Carpediem

it might not be the purpose, but these things come over pretty elitist -

does using a range finder and scope mean you aren't a hunter?

does using smokeless powder mean you aren't a hunter?
....
....
....
does using a ROCK mean you aren't a REAL hunter?

it's reductive, at best -

have i seen outrageous things happen? sure -- everything from shooting 600yards at game vs nearly shooting it on a leash - both of which aren't within my standards, and i have a simple rule -- i won't hunt with the person again - I likely won't even explain why, as the person will, no doubt, have a strong self-justification, which will lead to ego involvement

btw, bow hunters CAN look down on fire arm hunters, and don't get me started on the recurve vs compound bow hunters --

All hunting involves hunting but not all hunting involves harvesting an animal. The thrill is in the hunt and possibly the danger you put yourself in. Even Jeffeosso was in danger just hunting with me

I’ve considered hunting to be in pursuit of or, tracking down, looking for. As in I am the person doing the hunting. This includes looking for socks, finding game, tracking animals, looking for my car in the parkade.

When someone else is doing all the work, my wife, the tracker or ph, the kids, I consider myself to be along for the ride. I may be learning as I go along but that doesn’t mean I’m hunting. Same as if I’m sitting on the passenger side of a race car doesn’t make me a race car driver.

To me, whether I use a gun or bow, black or smokeless powder; a key fob or gps; these are only tools used on the activity.

My thoughts. We don’t have Pennys in Canada anymore so, here’s my two nickels on the subject.

Kind regards,

Carpediem

And thank you all for your contributions. I’ve put my friends nose out of joint with my opinion. I’m trying to figure out if he is justified or too damn sensitive.

Kind regards,

Carpediem

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
All hunting involves hunting but not all hunting involves harvesting an animal. The thrill is in the hunt and possibly the danger you put yourself in. Even Jeffeosso was in danger just hunting with me

I won't deny it !! Though I was more in danger when i pour that baking bag full of stewed piggie and blueberries on the platter!!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
All hunting involves hunting but not all hunting involves harvesting an animal. The thrill is in the hunt and possibly the danger you put yourself in. Even Jeffeosso was in danger just hunting with me

I won't deny it !! Though I was more in danger when i pour that baking bag full of stewed piggie and blueberries on the platter!!

Are you referring to my gas after eating the boar-itos? Talk about pigs in a blanket

Ok, so this must be a private joke between the two of you. Cmon, spill the details.

Kind regards,
Carpediem

I'll play.

Back in 2007, I took my oldest son on a plains game hunt in RSA. I started HUNTING at the age of 6. My son started HUNTING at age 3, or at least, he started joining me afield at that age.

On this same trip, trying to expand the number of hunters in the world, I convinced my then business partner (at the time around 58 years old) to join us, along with his son who was about 14 at the time. Neither had HUNTED before.

Yes, we hunted on a typical RSA farm. I hunted 2x1 with my son and PH. They hunted 2x1 with their PH.

At the end of the trip, my old partner and his son had each shot 1 animal. Him a world class waterbuck that he didn't appreciate, and his son, an impala.

In the same period of time, my son and I had taken 18 animals over the 10 day stint.

So you tell me, did the fact that my son and I were HUNTERS make the difference over my partner and his son, as SHOOTERS, taking only 2 animals?

In speaking with their PH in private about half way through the trip, he told me they were noisy, didn't know where on the animal to shoot, weren't able to get on the sticks in a timely manner, weren't able to take a shot in a timely manner, had difficulty locating the animals in the bush, even when being directed onto them by the PH and tracker, let alone finding the animal in the scope ... basically a couple of lost babes in the woods.

I think there is more to it than just being along for the ride and only a SHOOTER when on a guided hunt. And I damn sure wouldn't want either of them going on a dangerous game hunt as SHOOTERS!

YMMV however.

quote:

Originally posted by carpediem4570:
Ok, so this must be a private joke between the two of you. Cmon, spill the details.

Kind regards,
Carpediem

Jeffeosso added adobo seasoning to a crock pot with fresh young boar meat that we wrapped into boar-itos. The rest falls under Fight Club rules. What happens in hunting camp, stays in hunting camp.

I wouldn't deny that a safari client is a hunter but must admit there is something predictably inevitable in his hunt if there is game about and the tracker and conga line are up to it.

It is good to question hunting ethics, though, and as 'sportsmen' or 'sportswomen' we should ponder what makes our hunting sport rather than just pest destruction or some pejorative term the antis might apply.

For myself, I draw the line at use of electrical impliments to get game. I won't use an illuminated scope, night vision stuff, trail cams or even mark a wallow on my GPS. In Australia, however, almost all commonly hunted critters other than kangaroos, ducks and quail are exotic and widely regarded as pests. So, I don't say others should not use that stuff for pest control - but I wouldn't call it hunting.

Boomstick, you crack me up. Thanks for the laugh.

The responses so far have been quite thought-provoking. Thank you all.

Todd, I am sure your business partner and his son have gotten better at hunting. There is a
Ways a learning curve to any new activity. Good for you for bringing them into the sport.

Kind regards,
Carpediem