Why I no longer shoot AI anymore and spend thousands I don't need to!
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This list of long-range events Team Savage has won recently is getting almost as long as the distances they shoot at.

They recently added the 2010 F T/R National Championship to that list by taking the team competition in grand fashion. The won both the 600 and 1,000 yard events, establishing an new 1,000-yard record of 778-21X.

Darrell Buell Damascus, OR; John Weil of Welches, OR; Monte Milanuk of Wenatchee WA and Stan Pate of Milwaukee, OR made the trip to Sacramento, CA to represent Savage Arms. The competition featured some of the best talent and most expensive custom rifles from around the Country. But, once again, those expensive custom guns were no match for four skilled marksmen armed with stock Savage Model 12 rifles.

"We continue to be thrilled with the winning results from Team Savage. It says a lot about them and it says a lot about the rifles," Savage VP of Sales & Marketing Brian Herrick said. "We're not trying to tell anybody that they can just buy a Savage and shoot like Darrell, John, Monte and Stan, but it should be fairly obvious by now that shooting stock Savage rifles isn't holding these guys back at all."

What carts did they use?

Thanks, I needed that to break it off in all the Remmy lovers.

Plenty of the guys I shoot the SRM with use stock Savage rifles.

Oh but there such an Ugly Rifle !. Sound familiar ?.

As I've always said in reference too firearms ; I'll trade accuracy any day for beauty !.

An for the record my Savages aren't ugly , perhaps some what different but hardly Ugly !!!.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
What carts did they use?

F-tr is either .223 or .308

I'll take a look around at Perry this year and see how many Savages are being used in Long Range matches.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
Thanks, I needed that to break it off in all the Remmy lovers.

Hey Frank, Some of us Remington lovers also use and love Savages.

MFD, F class is shot at National, International and World Championship competition levels, so, to put it bluntly, no one gives a shit about Camp Perry, especially as F class is shot with scoped bolt action rifles, so, don't expect to see Savages in service rifle competitions!
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
MFD, F class is shot at National, International and World Championship competition levels, so, to put it bluntly, no one gives a shit about Camp Perry, especially as F class is shot with scoped bolt action rifles, so, don't expect to see Savages in service rifle competitions!
Peter.

Peter,

A little uncharacteristic response, so let me retort. Some of us do not give a shit about F-Class. (I really do, but just being a little bit sarcastic)

MFD was refering to the Long Range Matches which include scoped matches and iron sight matches. Service rifle can be shot in long range under a different class.

If you go during DCM oops I mean CMP week you wil not see any Savages or Remingtons only service rifles. Two distinct matches and weeks.

BTW I would be interested to see how many Savages are there for NRA high Power week also. If that second rifle from the top has a stripper clip guide and a rail it could be XTC rifle.

And for those who have been there Camp Perry is the Holy Grail of High Power Rifle competiton.

They may shoot great, but can't get past the UGLY!

I don't care whether it is Camp Perry, F-Class or Camp Howbigsmydick, that's great shooting from a stock rifle!

quote:

A little uncharacteristic response,

Mike70560, you are correct. I apologize. Don't know why I said that. I believe they shoot F-class at Whittington don't they?

"Camp Perry is the Holy Grail of High Power Rifle competiton"

Some of us consider that Bisley is the Holy Grail of High Power Rifle Competition!!!
Peter.

Peter,
No need to apologize, but there will be several hundred folks at Perry that do give a shit and as I said, will check around and see if any Savages are being used with "irons" or optics. One thing I will not see is anyone using a set of shooting bags, bipods, or any sort of rest for the matches. As for Perry being the "holy grail" I would tend to agree with that, but do know it is where the National Championships of HighPower, Match rifle and Service rifle are determined, both civilian and military. As for F class shooting, whatever brings more shooters to the sport I am very much in favor of doing that. At this stage of life, I am still doing it the old fashion way, sling and irons. Again, whatever style of shooting brings them to the firing line is a good thing.

Didn't intend on getting anyone lathered up over this but facts are facts in the standing events! I have been to CP twice as a spectator and although my first impression would be along the lines of a "major cluster f*%k" there is no doubt it stands out as a premier event. With that a side, I just got back from the range with my new BA 110 .338 lapua (pictured above bottom) and right out of the box I know it's going to be a winner. I also have the BAS 10 in .308 and it pulls off a .45 7 shot group @ 100 yards! Remember these are a tactical rifles!

One thing you can say about all those tacticool rifles, they are ugly! I don't care how well they shoot.
That thing pictured on the bottem, I wouldn't own for free. I don't care if it shoots thru the same hole "right out of the box, all day long."

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
That thing pictured on the bottem, I wouldn't own for free. I don't care if it shoots thru the same hole "right out of the box, all day long."

This post by wasbeeman is downright funny! That there's funny stuff, I don't care who ya are!

Funny thing is I have two of those "things" Bas-10 (.308) and the BA110 (.338 Lapua).

Any of the above posted Rifles won't cut it for myself !. Not that their ugly or not decent specimens

Dam Bolt's are on the wrong side !. When are those manufacturing clowns going to realize some of us are

GIFTED !!!.

Hooray for you. Owning two doesn't mean that thing doesn't look like a dog turd with handles.

Don't forget that this same team with the same stock rifles won the 2009 World FT/R championships in Bisley, also.

You think they were out of the box rifles?
Butch

Butch, Absolutely stock, not even custom bedded. These guns were picked straight off the production line.

I posted a thread about this on CalGuns.net and when all the guys started pileing on me saying that they couldn't be stock rifles against all the custom actions and barrels, etc. Darrell Buell (Savage Team Member) came to my rescue and posted this information:

For the naysayers:

Yes, the Team Savage guys were ALL running stock rifles at Nationals this year when we won the National Title. Regardless of who else showed up for the team match (there were 9 F-T/R teams total), breaking a National Record at 1000 yards, previously set by the very professional Team Sinclair, was an accomplishment. If you look at the scores for the Team Match, you'll see that Team Savage would have placed 4th in F-Open class at the 1000 yard line. If you don't think that the 11 F-Open Teams that competed last Saturday are some of the best in the world... you are mistaken. Furthermore, I shot a 198-13x score in the 600 yard phase of the match. Aside from being the top score in the F-T/R class, it would have put me ~11th out of 44 F-Open shooters, not bad for a factory rifle. Yes, the Team Savage guys were ALL running stock rifles at Nationals this year when we won the National Title. Regardless of who else showed up for the team match (there were 9 F-T/R teams total), breaking a National Record at 1000 yards, previously set by the very professional Team Sinclair, was an accomplishment. If you look at the scores for the Team Match, you'll see that Team Savage would have placed 4th in F-Open class at the 1000 yard line. If you don't think that the 11 F-Open Teams that competed last Saturday are some of the best in the world... you are mistaken. Furthermore, I shot a 198-13x score in the 600 yard phase of the match. Aside from being the top score in the F-T/R class, it would have put me ~11th out of 44 F-Open shooters, not bad for a factory rifle.

As has been mentioned, my ammo load was not ready for prime time, thus my lower showing in the Individual standings this year. The lowest I've shot in the previous 4 years has been 6th, generally 3rd place or higher.

Around 3 years ago, 2 members of the Team tinkered with bedding the F-T/R rifles. This was quickly abandoned as a bad idea, mainly due to the conditions that we tend to shoot in around the Pacific Northwest (rain, rain, and more rain). The rifles that went to Worlds last year were ALL stock Mod.12 F-T/R's. If you consider an additional buttpad for 6'5" Monte, or a bolt-on Karsten's cheekpiece "not stock"... there you go. My World's rifle was 100% stock, down to the plastic "Choate" cheekpiece, and it took 9th place in the world. Stan had a Karsten's cheekpiece on his rifle as the only modification, and took #3 in the world. Oops... one more disclaimer; John was running his rifle in his preferred Right-bolt, Left-port configuration, but this is available to anyone that contacts Savage's custom shop.

I shoot ~3500-4000 rounds a year (which basically means a new barrel every year). I have watched the evolution of the Savage barrels over the last 4-5 years, and the improvement is dramatic. They shoot about the same level of accuracy, but the cosmetic improvement is like night and day. Some of the time, I (and others on the Team) take the rifles back for re-barreling. I almost always do the work myself, and when "procuring" a new barrel, I walk over to the bin (large wooden bin on a pallet) and pull the first couple of barrels off the top... no particular cherry-picking here.

As regards the reliability of the Savage actions, I am fairly well known around the world for running *very* hot loads (think 155.5 Berger's running 3100+ fps). In the tens of thousands of rounds I have fired through the Savages, I have never once had a failure to extract.

Take this for what it's worth...

Darrell Buell
Team Savage/Team USA

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Hooray for you. Owning two doesn't mean that thing doesn't look like a dog turd with handles.

Only accurate rifles are interesting...

Only accurate rifles, designed to win/work at a specific task are attractive to me.

I currently own five Savage rifles, all of whom are stock other than triggers, and all of whom (even the 7STW) shoot under 1/2" at 100 yards with my loads.

Rich
beauty is as beauty does...

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
One thing you can say about all those tacticool rifles, they are ugly! I don't care how well they shoot.
That thing pictured on the bottem, I wouldn't own for free. I don't care if it shoots thru the same hole "right out of the box, all day long."

If obummmmer said he was going to Outlaw that rifle, I'd guess that you would be one of the guys(including me) waiting at the Gun Shop to get one as soon as the doors opened.

I've had Savages within the first three rifles/shotguns I ever had. Always had more than one. Savage nearly went under, but emerged to become one of the finest rifles ever produced. Nothing at all ugly about them from my perspective, just different.

People who feel embarrassed or ashamed of owning a Savage just do not understand what a fine firearm they own. If they keep it long enough though, they will.

Sometimes we build the gun for function instead of appearance. I've built Savages for competition that I would not take out in the field, hunting. Case in point:

Highly accurate rifles can and are being made that are pleasing to the eye and aestetically and traditionally sound.
Those "things" are catering to a segment of the market that was raised on "Rambo" and "Men in Black" and, of course, some of the Wesley Snipes snuff files. They look sooooo bad. You know who you are.

What is it about ugly as a dog turd with handles don't you folks understand??

I agree that they shoot, but agree with wasbeeman as they are butt ugly.
Butch

I don't think that their "Classic" line is ugly;

quote:

I agree that they shoot, but agree with wasbeeman as they are butt ugly.
Butch

And most match rifles are good looking.

Look how beautiful you can make a Remington. BTW it is the blue one with the bolt on the proper side.

Damn, I like the wood stocked competition rifle next to the blue one.
The Savage pictured above with the wood stock would look OK with a 3 pos safety on the bolt shroud and a nice custom bolt handle.
Butch

The double is a little tough in rapid prone.

"Ugly"? I don't recall any medals being handed out for "best looking rifle". At least not at any of the events I go to. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and is subject to each one's opinion. However, paper is non partisan and only reflects where it has been hit. It is non subjective nor judgmental! It only delivers the results and the one with the best results goes home with the honor of "Champ" while the beauty contestants can all stay back and argue about which color change they may consider for the next event?

Some people will spend big $$ on a Ferrari and the procede to drive it 55 mph in the left lane. Look at me! I don't have a clue, but my car is from another country and cost big money.

Those same people would not be caught dead in a Z06, its un refined, even though it will do the same thing or better for a quarter the price. Thank God its a free country!

My Savage model 12F in 6.5-.284 out of the box, bone stock (took about 150 rounds for load development) with 139 grain Lapua scenars and 4831sc shoots .4 five shot groups at 200 yards, all day long.


I have a few custom rifles that shoot sub moa, but none of them cost $1100 like my Savage did. But then again I love to shoot, hunt, and reload, It never crossed my mind that my Savage's looks would not impress somebody. Anyway have a nice day, I have to go wash my Z06.

DD,

What is interesting is everybody I know (or posts) who owns a Savage likes it. They all seem to be good shooters. It is people who do not own one that do not like them.

Mike, there are alot of people that the term "form over function" applies too.

I was not addressing Savage per se but rather the rifles that invaritably have "tacticool" in the title or description.
You can argue form follows funtion all you want but the fact remains that the weapons are being made with pointless appendages and exotic profiles that is the goal in and of itself. Functionality is the furtherest thing in the designers mind when he adds the various lumps and bumps to attract the Rambo set.
And they are ugly.

I have some experience with Savage rifles and some 20 plus years ago while looking for a Rem. 40X did buy what was called a Savage Match rifle in 308 for XC matches. Accurate, yes, with right loads would easily deliver .5 moa which is fine for this type of shooting, position shooting that is. Those days aftermarket items for match style shooting were scarce compared to the Remingtons, but was able to locate a bolt on stripper clip guide for rapid fire stages, added Warner rear and Anshutz front and good to go. Some of the negatives of the rifle were long action, bolt offered a lot of resistance in opening and slowed you down for rapid fire, same problem with 600 yard slow fire for effort to open bolt would at times force you out of position. Trigger was at best terrible, but with enough practice that can be overcome. Stock was laminated w/ handstop rail, semi adjustable comb, but bulky and not really user friendly for the type of matches it was supposedly designed to do. Might also mention that the bolt hex nut would need constantly tightened as well. Again, the accuracy of the rifle was not a problem, fed rounds OK in rapid, but overall not really suitable for the style of shooting I did. Again, this was a long time ago and now I see that Savage has a short action, much improved trigger and don't know if the bolt effort to open is any different or not, but no question they have much improved the rifle. Noted that some F class shooters have shot some fine scores at long range. A score of 198 is some 99% which is High Master score but would also note that non F class shooters, NRA Long Range, (no bags, bipods, rests) with sling, micrometer sights also shoot scores equal on a regular basis or in fact clean the 600 targets. If your scores are not good at 600 you will really have problems at the 8,9,and 1000yd targets.
I don't know if F class shooting has classifications or not as in NRA Long Range, but it requires an extended recorded number of rounds with specified percentages to qualify for the different ratings.
I doubt that there is anything magic about their barrels, most barrel mfg.'s today are fine, some better than others, but as mentioned when you shoot some 3-5000rnds a year, you will have to replace the barrels. Will say if Savage still uses their barrel nut arrangement that certainly makes it easier for the user to do and that is a good feature. As for the aesthetics of the Savage rifles, not an issue with match shooters for excellent Long Range shooter of national pominence used a beat up Rem. 700 with ragged out walnut stock and could care less how it looked, as long as it shot good.

wasbeeman, I hear you on the "tacticool". That leans more to the AR crowd, they can bolt just about anything on thier Quad rail fore ends and turn a 7 pound rifle into a 15 pound paper weight.

That rifle on the bottom (Savage 110 BA)is chambered in.338 Lapua and its main competition is the Barret 98 Bravo. The Savage comes in at Half the price. That is why Savage has such a loyale following. And yes they can get ugly.


http://www.thefirearmblog.com/...110-ba-in-338-lapua/

VS


http://www.snipercountrypx.com...bravo-338-lapua.aspx