I bought a new action, and want to build something special.





I'll use different (two piece) scope bases that allow the loading port to be open. I'm considering a 7mm-08 or 6.5 Creedmoor. I'm reasonably sure I will like either. But I have to choose. Help!!

There are many good cartridges that will work in this action, but there just aren't any that I want more than the two mentioned. The 260 is a candidate, but I think I want a creedmoor instead.

If I go with the 7mm, the bullet weights will be from 120gr to 150gr, but I'll probably use 140gr. If it's the 6.5mm, the bullet weight range will be 100gr to 140gr, and most likely I'll want to use 120gr bullets.

In the 6.5 it would be nice to have the 140gr option, just as the 150gr is the option for the 7-08. I see no reason to use anything heavier than 160gr in the 7-08. I'll take that into consideration with twist rates, and most likely go with a 8" twist for 6.5mm or 9" twist rate for the 7mm, specifically so I don't exclude the heavier bullets with the twist rate selection.

The purpose of the rifle is deer, hogs, and other medium game, maybe caribou, at normal ranges, given the opportunity. I'll mostly handload. I have a stock for it already, a pristine Accurate Innovations walnut that I bought several years ago, in a sporter pattern with a barrel channel at about a #3 contour.

Which cartridge would you choose?

Thanks

6,5mm plenty of fmj bullets, many target bullets as lapua scenar and berger vld, biggame bullets are made for moose and bear. Maybe in a 260rem.

7mm has a larger selection of biggame bullets.

Between the 2 calibers you mentioned, the 7-08 would be my choice.

Tough choice. Both would be excellent long range short action rifles. The Creedmoor would be something different but you'll never have problems getting 7-08 brass.

Cartridge choice would be dictated by the intended use, but as a long time 7mm fan (7x57 and 7 RM) I would prefer the 7/08.

Kabluewy,

Yep, tough choice!

If only shooting factory ammo, 7mm-08. If in a pinch to find ammo quickly, factory ammo, 7mm-08. Hornady makes some good factory ammo for the 6.5CM. If a reloader, if it were me, 6.5CM. It should be easy enough to lay in a decent stock of components.

They always say the 6.5's kill way better than their paper ballistics say they will. Grain for grain, getter BC for the 6.5. 6.5CM = uniqueness.

Your statement about using 120 gr in the 6.5 peaks my curiosity. You're probably planning on using it for stuff up to caribou? IMHO, it would work for moose, and heck, even black bear, though I'd use a heavier 130, 140, 150ish gr bullet. Don't think I would intentionally use it on any of Alaska's brown bear species, though I'd not be afraid to pack it around with some decent, deep penetrating, bullets in case a bear decided to get cantankerous with me. Depending upon barrel length, meaning a 26", you should be able to obtain 2800 fps with a 140 gr class bullet.


Nice looking action.

A few years back, I drank the 6.5 Koolaid with both the 260 Rem and the 6.5x47 Lapua, so the 6.5 would be my vote.

Alan

quote:

Originally posted by GSSP:
Your statement about using 120 gr in the 6.5 peaks my curiosity. You're probably planning on using it for stuff up to caribou? Alan

I was thinking about all the 120gr 6.5mm bullets I have that need to be shot. Also, I was thinking about the Barnes TTSX specifically in 120gr, which I kinda think of as a formula changer, compared to other 120 gr bullets, except perhaps the Swift.

KB

If you knew how to shoot you could go with .223.

The 7-08 is as close as you can get to the greatest cartridge of all time-The 7x57!

quote:

Originally posted by Bernie P.:
The 7-08 is as close as you can get to the greatest cartridge of all time-The 7x57!

I'll agree with that!!!! Maybe add a few words:
The greatest deer cartridge of all time.
7mm08 "close", and it fits into a short action.

I have owned at least one 7x57 since the mid 70s. First a Ruger Centennial, then a bastard Mauser small ring, which was a large ring until someone made it smaller, then another Mauser, and now a CZ 550, which is a keeper and real shooter.

I wanted to have a rifle made in 7mm-08 back when it was still a wildcat, because I figured it was perfect for deer, but I didn't because I already had a 7x57 at the time. Since then I've had three 7mm-08s and as luck would have it, none of them shot the accuracy I was looking for, so I sold them. They were all factory rifles.

There are some advantages with the 7-08 compared to 7x57, IMO. The diferences are slight, but matter a little bit, or to me they do - enough to justify owning both.

Of course, for starters, the 7-08 will fit nicely in a short action.

The 7-08 is probably at it's best with 140gr bullets.

The 7x57 has a CIP throat, usually, which may be an advantage sometimes, like when using 175gr bullets, if the twist is also CIP, about 8.5". But I don't see the long throat as an advantage with lighter bullets, although my CZ seems to shoot them accurately enough. One advantage is that I can seat the 160grs out somewhat, and still have room in the magazine.

In a custom barrel, especially, I can get the throat cut just like I want it, which would be to mate the lands close to the ogive of the 140gr bullets of choice, factory and handloads. That would not exclude 160grs because OAL length is what matters. I've never checked, but I suspect the standard reamer is already designed with that in mind.

Same could be said about the 6.5 CM compared to the old Euro cartridges.

KB

6.5 Cm of course. Just an all around awesome round. . . It will kill anything the 7/08 will.but is nicer for the smaller stuff.

Alright, I confess. I started this discussion like I had to choose one or the other, simply because I like the discussion and other's thoughts. Really though, the choice is which action to put which barrel. The top stock is the one I plan to mate with the push feed M70 SA, and the bottom stock is an Accurate Innovations, which I plan on using with the CRF FN/Win M70 SA.

Truth is that I got the push feed action first, and planned on using the AI stock with it, along with the Williams bottom metal, which I've had for several years. Then I saw the FN short action listed at a reasonable price, and snagged it. Then within a day or two, I got an email from Boyds listing a special run of upgraded walnut stocks for the Win M70 short action, so I ordered one of those. You know how it is, rationalizations are everything when buying rifles, and I told myself that I would just sell the short action, and get my money back, and maybe make a few dollars. And now, I can't part with it, because it's a really good action, and I don't have a lot of money in it. The FN SPR action speaks for itself. It's just simply a keeper.

Hopefully, to add further discussion points, I consider these two actions nearly perfect for my tastes in refined short actions. Compare them to the Rem 700 SA or the very nice clones. If I bought a 700 or clone, I would want to upgrade the bottom metal, install a good custom trigger, and a three-position safety.

That's more $$ in accessories than I have in the M70 actions, and they are already set up the way I like them. The trigger is very good, three position safety as preferred, great bottom metal although the Williams unit did cost extra, and also important to me the integral recoil lug. I don't plan on using these for competition, so the most precise accuracy is moot considering my abilities and intended use.

After all, if I used a 700 clone short action, I would have more money in the one rifle, than the two built off the M70 actions. How's that for a rationalization of not having to choose, just build both?

At first I thought you had a very tough decision on your hands choosing between the 6.5 CM or the 7-08. I did the same thing when I built my 7-08 Ackley, what did I need and would not overlap so to speak the others I already have. It shoots right at 1/2" groups all day long with 140 grn bullets. Since then I've been doing a lot of reading, and am very interested in something in 6.5, not so much for hunting but for paper punching mainly. But you don't have to make a decision, you already have two nice actions and stocks available, so I see it as a matter of which one you build first. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

Why not go with a .260 and have endless brass availability?

Since you're considering the Creedmore I suggest the 260 Remington ackley IMP.

260 IMP

Someone told me or I read, can't remember which, that the 6.5 Creedmoor is like the 250 Savage necked up, and sharper shoulder, straighter sides, like it was AI.

Also somewhere I got the notion that the 6.5 Creedmoor allows the bullets to be seated longer, so as to not impinge on powder space. Whereas with the 260, the OAL limit requires the bullets to be seated way past the base of the neck.

Is that the way it really works out?

KB

7-08....think bullet selection.

284 Win
Make it target worthy
Lapua brass
Target to hunting bullets @ 3k fps

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
284 Win
Make it target worthy
Lapua brass
Target to hunting bullets @ 3k fps

284 Win = shoehorn fit, crunch OAL. Creedmoor or 6.5x47 easy and perfect fit and feeding in short action. No modifications to action needed.

6.5 Creedmoor is target and hunting worthy

Hornady brass. May be able to use 6.5x47 Lapua brass, or can be formed from 243 Lapua brass.

2700 - 2900 fps = great hunting velocity at relevant ranges.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Someone told me or I read, can't remember which, that the 6.5 Creedmoor is like the 250 Savage necked up, and sharper shoulder, straighter sides, like it was AI.
KB

BTW, I looked up the case dimensions of the 250 Savage, and it's very close to the 6.5 Creedmoor, necked up and blown out. A guy could actually use 250 savage brass, but there is no need. The more I study the 6.5 Creedmoor, the better I like it.

Also, BTW, I've decided to do the 7mm-08 first, on the FN SPR action, with the Accurate Innovations stock, partially because I already have a 7mm barrel blank, and partially because a local gunsmith wants to build one for himself and one for me, and we can share the cost of a new reamer.

Besides, I think the Creedmoor will feed better in the push feed action, if there are any issues. I already know the 7-08 feeds perfect in the SPR action, and that action is already lapped and trued.

I considered a 6.5x284 or a 284 several times, and if I did one, it would be on a long action, but I simply see no advantage for my use over a 6.5x55 or a 280. And I try to avoid anything with a rebated rim.

KB

Hunting rounds should mag feed without issue loaded to the max OAL
Target rounds you would single load to beyond magazine length.

Maybe a 6.5 or 7mm-338 RCM
Call it the 6.5 or 7 Kabluewy
06 capacity in a 2" case

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Maybe a 6.5 or 7mm-338 RCM

If I did that, I would start with a Ruger SS action, already set up to feed the cartridge. No mods to magazine, feed rails or bolt face.

Add'l gunsmith work on the action is a deal breaker. It's a crucial issue to me as to whether I use the actions for a specific project or not. The cartridge and the action absolutely must mate, with minimum gunsmithing.

KB

now that is a tough choice. i have the 7MM-08 and the .260 i use my .260 more, i like what it does on white tail

I'm in the process of building a new toy myself using the SA CRF M70 action. After much pondering I decided to make a 6.5 CM. Just have to wait until I can squirrel more money away to finish this project.

The 7-08 has endless brass & bullet selection...the 9 twist will handle any bullet you'll ever need....the 6.5 CM is new and flashy...the 260 will do the same thing with better die selection along with less pricey brass...the 6.5 and 8 twist will serve you well from 95's through the famed 155/160's...if your action length will allow...look at the ole 6.5x55...now thats a classic cartridge !

I like the creedmoor!

I'd personally go with the 7-08 if these were my only two choices. There might be a possibility of needing factory ammo and I have never found Creedmore in Wally-world which is the only gun type store anywhere close to where I do my hunting, but I have found 7-08. I would also consider that I can easily make the 7-08 from several other readily available cases (308 or 243) if necessary.

Actually I would go with the 260 rather than either of the other two, but that is another story. I have never really seen any need for the Creedmore, and I am a 6.5 full fledged nut.

Can't you make the 6.5 from necking up .250 brass? Should be a pretty large supply of that stuff around with the .22-250 and all. Probably not nearly as much as the .308 based cartridges but still enough you should never have a hard time finding brass.

Well I would build a 308 WCF, sorry, but that is just me.

Of the two you mentioned I would go with the 7mm-08.

6.5 Remington Mag.

From most of what I have read the 6.5 Swede, 6.5 CM and the 260 Rem are not enough difference ballisticly to make much difference.
The 7-08 has the advantage of heavier bullets.
The 25 Souper or 257 DGR are almost a 25-06 but fit in a short action.
Leo

Kabluewy,

I load for and kill deer and hogs with, 6.5 x 55, 260 Rem., 6.5 x 284, 7-30 watters, 7 x 57, 7-08.

I've used 120's through 140's in the 6.5's and 100's through 175's in the 7mm's.

My bullet of choice in the 6.5 is the 130 gr. accubond, my bullet of choice in the 7mm is the 140 gr. accubond.

As you stated, I mainly kill deer and hogs. Most of the deer I kill are 160 lbs and under and most of the hogs I kill are 250 lbs and under. Ranges are usually under 250 yds, with the majority being between 100 and 160 yds. From my experience of quite a few killed with the chamberings mentioned above, I've seen very little difference as long as shot placement was correct. Only the 6.5 x 284 of those mentioned above has a muzzle velocity of over 2800 fps. Consequently little meat damage will result with any choice from the above. I would say it boils down to a matter of personal preference.

GWB

I was discussing this with my gunsmith, and found out that he has a 260 reamer, and likes that cartridge. Of course that is likely to influence my decision about which 6.5mm to go with, if I get that far. I'm pretty sure that I want to do the 7mm-08 first and on the SPR action. After that, I may sell the other action.

On second thought, I could do a 260 on the SPR action, and sell the 7mm barrel and the push feed action, to raise cash to pay for the 260. Awaghhhh.

KB

Was it Yogi Berra the stated, "when you come to the fork in the road, take it". I tend to agree. Do both. You will be much happier.

Here are a few that were at hand that keep me on the straight and narrow.



Top to bottom,
7 x 57,
7mm-08,
7mm-08
6.5 x 284
260 Rem.

On the 7 x 57 is custom. They are all shooters/killers.

GWB

PS: I was in my favorite gunshop last week. I happened upon a used Winchester model 70 classic featherweight chambered in 7 x 57. It will be home soon.

GWB,
I always feel lots better after seeing your posts with pictures of the tools of the straight and narrow path.
KB

The important word here is "build". That means you have almost 100 percent control over the whole build. With that said you can get a 7x57 barrel with any twist you want. I recently purchased a Shilen 7mm barrel with a 9 twist for my 7x57 project. I do shoot heavier longer bullets out of my 7x57. That 8.5 twist was the military twist when the 7x57 was in vogue for military rifles and it was for the long heavy bullets. I have a commercial Win Model 70 Feather Weight in 7x57 and it's twist is a 10. Shot very well for what I was doing with it.

Now I've said this before. The reason the 6.5 Creedmore looks so impressive is that it's loaded and chambered to keep the bullet out of the powder space of the case. Because of SAAMI specs the 260 Remington has a very short throat and most rifles it's build on also don't let it be loaded to longer OAL's. Match it to a good action length and have your smith throat it out a little for some of the longer bullets, and not necessarily the big boys like 175's, and the 260 will blow the doors off any Creedmore out there.

If I were building a 7x57 for the best accuracy and longer case life I sure wouldn't choose a SAAMI spec chamber because the throat is way too long and the neck diameter of the chamber is way too large. I'd get a reamer made to tighten up many of those specs. I don't really believe there is hill of beans difference between the 7mm-08 and 7x57 when the 7x57 is loaded up to higher pressure in modern rifles....except that if it has the standard SAAMI chamber it will have a harder time shooting as small groups as a good 7mm-08. I'm not saying that it can't.

I've got just about every 6.5 caliber made (not the wildcats except for the 6.5 Grendel which is now SAAMI) and I have the 7mm08 and I've taken deer with both and can say the 7mm-08 is much more rifle then the 260 or Creedmore. I'm not at all saying the 6.5's aren't good performers because that's not true...they are great, but the 7mm-08 just has that little bit more.

What I think about blowing out a 7x57 to some improved form....why?....just buy a 280 Remington.

Regarding the word "build" and options: With every choice made along the way, the options deminish. Having chosen a specific action, the FN SPR, narrows the choices of suitable cartridges. Thus the 7x57 is no longer an option in this particular "build". Having a specific 7mm barrel on hand, which has a 9" twist rate, narrows the related choices too. Since I don't like so-called "improved" cases, the only real choice left is the 7mm-08.

I'll have to think about the 6.5mm some more. I think I'll be happy with either the 260 or the Creedmoor.

KB

Here's a tip to consider, on that FN action get yourself a WSM mag box and the follower for it. It will extend the mag length to 3.050" and it feeds the 284 win based cartridges slick as snot. I have built two sporters with those actions, one in 25-284 with a featherweight barrel contour that shoots extremely well and I also built a straight 284 Win w/ the other one. No problems seating to mag length although you need to re-work the ejector and shorten the bolt stop to feed from the longer magazine. You can also just order a new ejector for the WSM version and it will work perfectly.

I'd go 284 Win. Mine shoots OK with most bullets (1 1/2 MOA), but H4350 and the Sierra 140gr SPBT puts them into consistent 1/2 MOA.

Matt,
Thanks for the info. I didn't think of that. I'll bet it would work.

At the time I bought my action, there was another listed for the WSM. I'm sure it would have worked with the 7mm Short Mag, Win or Rem. I couldn't justify buying both actions, but considered it.

KB

I am a big fan of 6.5, so there is my answer
But I would prefer the 260 in a short action instead of the Creedmoor. For a long action, I would choose the oldy 6.5x55 or one of the wildcats 6.5-06 or 6.5WSM.

I think the 120 grain Barnes TTSX or the 120 grain Hornady GMX bullets are very good in a 6.5 rifle. The 130 grain Swift Scirocco II is also a good choice.